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Is it possible to change prepay electric as tenant

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    As a landlord with tenants moving out soon. They had Prepay which I did have to agree to install but if the meter can stay and the tenant can switch without issue. The only problem a LL should have is if the bill is unpaid when leaving. Calling the company before deposit is returned can clear that up quickly. If your LL does not understand you can saves up too €300 a year by switching then he needs some math lessons. A tenant with €300 more in their pocket are more likely to keep paying the rent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Clampdown wrote: »
    Sorry but your post is laughably wrong.

    The landlord does not have any right to force the tenant into using a prepay provider, if they wanted to they would have to put this into the contract.

    Changing electricity provider can not be used as cause for keeping a tenant's security deposit, the only way a landlord can do that is if there is unpaid rent, damage to the property or the tenant breaks the lease by moving out early. Those are literally the only 3 reasons.

    The PRTB has no remit upon utility bills whatsoever. Those cases are between providers and customers, the PRTB is not a collection agency for utilities. Don't believe me? They publish all judgements on their website, so go have a look and see how many are for charges relating to a utility. They deal mainly with unpaid rent, illegal eviction, property damage, and deposit return/retention cases.

    Other than the fact there was a verbal agreement, which should not have been made, there is no reason the OP can't choose his provider. The landlord doesn't need to worry about the bill once it is in OP's name. It's strange that he doesn't realize this himsef, but as you proved yourself above, some landlords have ridiculously bad knowledge about their business and just think they can make it up as they go along to suit them.

    Installation of prepay is free. It won't cost the LL anything for OP to have normal on demand electricity. Prepay is for people who struggle to afford electricity on their income and don't want to fall behind and get cut off. A landlord can't force you to use that any more than he can force you to get SKY just because there is a dish installed.

    A tenant has the right to choose their utility supplier. I have no problem if a tenant wishes to do so if they tell me about beforehand and have it put back to the original supplier when leaving.

    My sole reason for replying to this post is your use of the term "laughably wrong".....there is nothing humorous about your inaccuracies.

    A security deposit is supposed to protect the LL against loss. "unpaid rent, damage to the property or the tenant breaks the lease by moving out early", are not "literally"the only 3 reasons to make a deduction* from a security deposit.

    In reference to just utilities (and not things like costs for rubbish removal, missing inventory ect just utilities):

    When a tenant skips out of a fixed term lease early closing their utily a/c, who is supposed to pay the utility standing charges until a new tenant is found or the term ends, whichever comes first?

    When that departing tenant cancels their account at the rented property weeks before actually leaving, putting the account automatically into the LL's name, who is supposed to pay for those standing and usage charges? And no the supplier the tenant was using does not always inform the LL.

    When that departing tenant closes their account and purposefully give a smaller and incorrect reading to the utility company without the LL's knowledge, who is supposed to pay for that usage?

    If a tenant doesn't pay any utility bills in their name and leaves when those services are cut off, yes the bills are their responsibility but who pays for the re-connection fees?

    You claim that "some landlords have ridiculously bad knowledge about their business and just think they can make it up as they go along to suit them". I suggest that you know very little about a profession of which you do not belong. It's a bit like a homeopath telling a surgeon how to do their job.

    Oh and yes, if it means drilling through walls, window frames ect for a new installation, a LL can leave a tenant with no alternative but to use the dish that was already installed when the tenant moved in, if they want sat tv.

    *(Deduction where the loss incurred is verifiable, not the entire as you suggest, unless the loss is greater than or equal to the amount of the deposit)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    A tenant has the right to choose their utility supplier. I have no problem if a tenant wishes to do so if they tell me about beforehand and have it put back to the original supplier when leaving.



    If a tenant doesn't pay any utility bills in their name and leaves when those services are cut off, yes the bills are their responsibility but who pays for the re-connection fees?



    Oh and yes, if it means drilling through walls, window frames ect for a new installation, a LL can leave a tenant with no alternative but to use the dish that was already installed when the tenant moved in, if they want sat tv.

    *(Deduction where the loss incurred is verifiable, not the entire as you suggest, unless the loss is greater than or equal to the amount of the deposit)

    Know a landlord who had a tenant in his house who didn't pay the utility bill for more than 16 months
    House was disconnected for more than a year
    The reconnection costs were far more than the deposit paid in
    Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again
    Tenant had no money so who has to pay the bill??? right the landlord

    Sky wont use old dishes/ cables
    They remove everything and put up a complete new installation
    Had a war about that myself with my present landlord who insisted to use what there is and sky didn't want to use the old stuff Took me 3 months and finally landlord had given me the green light to let them renew dish and cables


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭bonjurkes


    so the end of the story is I moved out of the apartment and broke the contract, for some other reason.

    As far as I know, your LL doesn't have rights to call the company and ask about your account. They will only give this information to you. You can show your LL the most recent paid bill before leaving the apartment. But remember that electricity bills are bimonthly in Ireland, so you won't be able to cancel and get a bill instantly and LL shouldn't hold your deposit for more than 2 weeks. So best thing you can do is, letting your LL know that you paid the last bill whenever you do it, just for courtesy. Actually my LL wanted me to send him email of the proofs of paid electric bills.

    For future reference, here is how the all stuff works (in case some other person is wondering and would be nice to help them). You are supposed to create a new account under your name for PPP and get activation code etc, whenever you move into the apartment. After doing that, you can move your electricity provider to some other company, and you should call PPP (in 14 days of registration) and get de-activation code. If you want to switch to another provider without activating PPP, you either shouldnt use any electricity or tell the first meter reading to the new provider, otherwise it will be "free electric usage" which is not ethical/illegal.

    When you want to leave apartment, you should cancel your current electric provider, and your LL should call PPP to activate prepaid electric again. You can't create a new account just before leaving the apartment (I asked and they said your LL should call PPP and they will handle it).

    PPP is the most expensive electricity in Ireland. I'm not sure how widely it's used as provider but I don't know much people happy with it (except LL)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Know a landlord who had a tenant in his house who didn't pay the utility bill for more than 16 months
    House was disconnected for more than a year
    The reconnection costs were far more than the deposit paid in
    Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again
    Tenant had no money so who has to pay the bill??? right the landlord

    In this scenario, it was the tenants responsibility for the re connection not necessarily the rewire. Yes the LL had to cover it as there was no point chasing a man of straw, but still the tenants responsibility

    Sky wont use old dishes/ cables
    They remove everything and put up a complete new installation
    Had a war about that myself with my present landlord who insisted to use what there is and sky didn't want to use the old stuff Took me 3 months and finally landlord had given me the green light to let them renew dish and cables

    You're right they won't (surprised they even remove the old stuff). But what would you have done if if the LL dug their heels in because the LL didn't want their property looking like a piece of Swiss cheese
    .

    Which backs up my point that a LL can deduct from the deposit in reference to utilities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭bonjurkes


    I just checked RTB website to remind myself about the deposits (looks like they redesigned the website) and here is the relevant page: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/deposits/
    Outstanding utility bills and other charges

    If the tenant owes money for utility bills, such as gas or electricity, and the utility bill is in the landlord’s name, the landlord may withhold part or all of the deposit to cover these costs. The tenant should always retain a copy of the bills to ensure that payment is applicable to what is being owed

    It says that "landlord's name" for outstanding utility bills and other charges. So, if tenant has unpaid bills etc. as far as I know (probably one of the earlier messages of this thread) it's between tenant and the company (and the collection agency) and based on what's written in the link above, LL can't use deposit for unpaid bills under the name of tenant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again

    As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with the tenant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    .

    Which backs up my point that a LL can deduct from the deposit in reference to utilities.

    The utilities are nothing to do with the landlord. When a tenant leaves and a new tenant moves in the bills are reset to zero. The outstanding bill follows the old tenant.

    Even with Prepaypower, if a meter is in a negative balance they will reset it to zero once it has been shown a new tenant is in situ, copy of lease may be required.

    Edit: The only thing the landlord could be hit with is a re-connection fee if the property was disconnected which is about €80 if memory serves, I'm a while out of energy so this value may have changed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with the tenant.

    Yes it has
    If the tenant did pay his/her bills the house would not been disconnected and also not been rewired up to the latest standards
    If a property is disconnected for 6 months or more you need for reconnection a cert of completion from your spark
    Your house electrics needs to be up to standard of today
    There was nothing unsafe in his house but it didn't comply anymore

    From the ESB site

    For six month and two years

    If your house has been disconnected for between six months and two years, contact an electricity supplier to register as a customer. The supplier gives you a number called a Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN).

    Your electricity supplier then arranges with ESB Networks for the house to be reconnected.

    Note: As your house has been disconnected for more than six months, you are required to have the wiring checked. It must be checked and certified by a registered electrical contractor who must then submit a completion certificate on your behalf.



    More than two years

    f your house has been disconnected for more than two years, apply online or download the NC2 Application Form (PDF | 493KB), Connection to a Single Domestic Dwelling or Farm Premises.
    Or you can call 1850 372 757 or +353 21 2386555 if calling from outside the Republic of Ireland to request a copy. You need to complete this form and return it (together with the required location map and site plan)


    A site visit may be required to assess the situation. If no additional work is required to bring the connection point up to current standards, the house can be reconnected on payment of a re-energisation charge. However, if the connection point is not up to current standards it is treated as a new connection and a new connection charge applies. You will then be issued with a quotation as a fee is payable before your house can be reconnected. You may also be required to provide ducting on the site (PDF | 1MB).
    As soon as ESB Networks installs the service and meter, ask your electrical contractor to make the electricity live at the isolator switch.

    house was disconnected for more than two years and had to pay for a complete new installation seen by ESB as a complete new house connection
    Thanks to the tenant


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    The utilities are nothing to do with the landlord. When a tenant leaves and a new tenant moves in the bills are reset to zero. The outstanding bill follows the old tenant.

    Even with Prepaypower, if a meter is in a negative balance they will reset it to zero once it has been shown a new tenant is in situ, copy of lease may be required.

    Edit: The only thing the landlord could be hit with is a re-connection fee if the property was disconnected which is about €80 if memory serves, I'm a while out of energy so this value may have changed.

    So which is it? Nothing or only one thing?

    How about addressing the several other instances in post 53, where a LL could be hit for monies that are the tenants responsibility. There are 4 in the post, you've only addressed one.

    And installation of cable/ Sat tv or similar is most definitely something "to do with the LL"

    You are correct when you say that bills in the tenants name are the the tenants responsibility. I never said otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    So which is it? Nothing or only one thing?

    How about addressing the several other instances in post 53, where a LL could be hit for monies that are the tenants responsibility. There are 4 in the post, you've only addressed one.

    And installation of cable/ Sat tv or similar is most definitely something "to do with the LL"

    You are correct when you say that bills in the tenants name are the the tenants responsibility. I never said otherwise.

    I am giving my opinion as somebody who spent many years working in energy and can clear up a particular point.

    It's a re-connection fee. €80 max not a full bill. It's the same for any service provided TV/Phone etc. In fact a landlord would not be allowed pay a bill if it wasn't in their name. Example, if a landlord rang Energy provider 'A' to pay a bill that is in the tenants name they would be told that it is not possible without the account holders permission.

    If power is off at the property then the landlord would be right to keep €80 for re-connection but a landlord is not going to refund deposit without inspection and if the power is off it's quite easy to tell by you know, flicking a light switch.

    From an energy providers point of view the tenant is responsible for the bills until the day of departure and then it switches over to the new tenant or the landlord. All providers will do a temp landlord account during vacant periods. If the property is empty even if a tenant leaves I'm sure the landlord will want electricity on to run alarms and keep the heating going so the place doesn't get damp etc and obviously showing new tenants a property with no power will go down like a fart in a spacesuit, so it's the landlord that needs to cover this not a tenant that has left even if they have broken lease.

    Choosing an energy provider is the right of the tenant, this was trashed out between the company I worked for and the CER, we then removed the requirement of the sales team asking for a landlords number and seeking permission (Again I'm out of energy a couple of years so this may have changed)

    In saying that in my experience energy providers take it on the chin when tenants do a bunk on bills and don't tend to cause hassle for landlords.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Sorry for hijacking an old thread, but does anyone know if a tenant can choose to leave prepaypower after moving in to a property where that has been installed?

    Contract is in landlords name, tenant pays the supplier directly (PrePayPower), so tenant isn't in any contract with them.

    Landlord would be liable for exit fees for his contract, but tenant moved in assuming they would have bills in their name and would be free to choose their own supplier. Would not have taken the property had they known they were not going to be allowed to shop around for the best energy deals and new customer offers.

    Anyone have any example, legislation or anything they could point me in the way of I would be grateful, thanks!



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