Is it possible to change prepay electric as tenant

bonjurkes

Clampdown wrote: »

A landlord can't force you to use that any more than he can force you to get SKY just because there is a dish installed.

Funny enough he just said that I can go for SKY dish for 30 euro a month , there is already placed dish in the apartment, which is funny.

He said he bought the apartment and renting it out now, so I am his first tenant probably. He is worried and nervous I believe, it's my first tenancy at his place also so we both don't know some points, I ask people (that's why I ask) and learn and keep him updated also.

I paid him 2000 euro of deposit, I am not going anywhere without getting that money back, so I don't have plans to do something sneaky or rip him off.

pilly

Personally I wouldn't go pissing off a LL after just moving in. Especially if it is in the contract. Give it a while and once you've been there a while and paying the rent on time etc. he may be more amenable to it.

bonjurkes

pilly wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't go pissing off a LL after just moving in. Especially if it is in the contract. Give it a while and once you've been there a while and paying the rent on time etc. he may be more amenable to it.

It's not in the contract, it's a default contract. He just doesn't know that I can change electric provider by my own (I didn't know that honestly) , he is just worried that (he says this openly and clearly) if tenants leave the place without paying stuff he will have to pay all the bills and etc.

That's why he asked for 2 months rent as deposit.

cerastes wrote: »

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring bord gais and elec ireland
By the way Bord Gais Unit rates for electricity are 5.6 cent, not sure what that prepayment charge above is all about, probably their fee,
outta here

I am not ignoring anyone, sorry if it looks like that. All the offered prices are more or less is same. The reason I go with energia is they have fixed price for 1 year. Others say stuff like "level plan" which might cost me extra depending on the provider.

I am fine with paying 70 euro per month for a year, if I use less I will get my money back, if I use more, I will pay more. This is the simplest and most economic way for me.

ted1

pilly wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't go pissing off a LL after just moving in. Especially if it is in the contract. Give it a while and once you've been there a while and paying the rent on time etc. he may be more amenable to it.

Rubbish. Would you voluntarily pay 50% more for electricity?

Gumbo

Will the new unit and wiring cause any damage to internal walls, drilling, tacking etc?

bonjurkes

kceire wrote: »

Will the new unit and wiring cause any damage to internal walls, drilling, tacking etc?

Nothing will be installed or removed from the apartment. PPP said that they are happy to leave their meter and keypad in the apartment, which is great news for me also.

I just applied over internet, PPP will give deactivation code next week. When I am done, I will switch electric back to PPP and move to my new place.

JustAThought

bonjurkes wrote: »

Nothing will be installed or removed from the apartment. PPP said that they are happy to leave their meter and keypad in the apartment, which is great news for me also.

I just applied over internet, PPP will give deactivation code next week. When I am done, I will switch electric back to PPP and move to my new place.

Against your landlords specific instructions and agreement. This is why people find it hard to find places to rent , cannot get references to rent and do not get their deposits back. Hilarious. But there are dishonest people everywhere.

bonjurkes

There is nothing as against specific instructions, not sure why you being so negative. If it's the contract then it might be a problem, but I don't know if your landlord can say "you can only use this electric/gas company/tariff" in this apartment.

The reason why people find it hard to find places is a-) Houses are really crapy b-) Rents are crazy high c-) Some landlords have crazy expectations.

About not getting deposit back, if I smash the fridge, I will pay for it, if I can't my deposit back because I chose the electric tariff I want, this will end up in PRTB then.

As long as I don't do any damage, be respectful to neighbours and surroundings I don't see any problem. I can smash my TV that I paid in the living room, if I smash the walls, then deposit is gone.

Simple as that

edit: There is nothing in the agreement as "you can't change your electricity tariff". Can you change the electric company you use? If yes, then I should be able to also. If no, then something is wrong.

bonjurkes

.

cerastes

ted1 wrote: »

5.6c are for electricity are you having a laugh?

That is probably the gas unit rate alright, I just had a quick look as the op seems adamant to go with energia or prepaypower who to my mind would be among the worst, they are only an middleman and have to take a cut.
I looked into prepay with bord gas before and their unit rates were the same as for credit metres, the op seems determined to lock themselves in with the two businesses they keep mentioning and they don't seem to understand the standing charge comes out daily, overall there's not too much difference in a few percent here or there.

antoinolachtnai

Energia isn't any more a 'middle man' than Bord Gais. All these companies buy power from the same place, the SEM (single electricity market) pool, and for the same wholesale price.

Clampdown

JustAThought wrote: »

Against your landlords specific instructions and agreement. This is why people find it hard to find places to rent , cannot get references to rent and do not get their deposits back. Hilarious. But there are dishonest people everywhere.

More like there are clueless landlords everywhere who think they can control aspects of tenant's lives that they have no right to, such as where they get electricity from.

You really don't get it. The change of provider does not affect the landlord or property in any way. It will cost the landlord nothing, and he has no right to force prepay power on a tenant. And the security deposit can not be retained by the landlord because the tenant has changed provider. Absolutely not.

You haven't a notion.

LollipopJimmy

cerastes wrote: »

That is probably the gas unit rate alright, I just had a quick look as the op seems adamant to go with energia or prepaypower who to my mind would be among the worst, they are only an middleman and have to take a cut.
I looked into prepay with bord gas before and their unit rates were the same as for credit metres, the op seems determined to lock themselves in with the two businesses they keep mentioning and they don't seem to understand the standing charge comes out daily, overall there's not too much difference in a few percent here or there.

You are horribly misinformed. Energia currently have the best deal in the market, Electric Ireland aren't even 2nd or 3rd... If you want DD then Energia are the job

ted1

JustAThought wrote: »

Against your landlords specific instructions and agreement. This is why people find it hard to find places to rent , cannot get references to rent and do not get their deposits back. Hilarious. But there are dishonest people everywhere.

Nothing dishonest about it, tenants are free to choose whatever utility provider they choose.

ted1

cerastes wrote: »

they are only an middleman and have to take a cut.

I have news for you , every provider is just a middle man, they just bill you for the same energy that the others also provide

cerastes

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

You are horribly misinformed. Energia currently have the best deal in the market, Electric Ireland aren't even 2nd or 3rd... If you want DD then Energia are the job

Assuming someone wanted to go DD, I didn't mention that at all.

ted1 wrote: »

Nothing dishonest about it, tenants are free to choose whatever utility provider they choose.

Who said they couldn't, this was about the meter being prepay, not about the provider, which the op says they were aware of.
I've changed suppliers for what looked like very attractive rate reductions, but overall it made no difference or worked out Being more, it depends on usage.

ted1

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

You are horribly misinformed. Energia currently have the best deal in the market, Electric Ireland aren't even 2nd or 3rd... If you want DD then Energia are the job

If you include their cash back offer electric Ireland are one of the cheapest. Bonkers don't count the cash back in their comparasions

ted1

cerastes wrote: »

Assuming someone wanted to go DD, I didn't mention that at all.


Who said they couldn't, this was about the meter being prepay, not about the provider, which the op says they were aware of.
I've changed suppliers for what looked like very attractive rate reductions, but overall it made no difference or worked out Being more, it depends on usage.

Usage is a factor, regardless of who your supplier is you should reduce your consumption. Bottom like is with cheaper rates you pay less

LollipopJimmy

cerastes wrote: »

Assuming someone wanted to go DD, I didn't mention that at all.


Who said they couldn't, this was about the meter being prepay, not about the provider, which the op says they were aware of.
I've changed suppliers for what looked like very attractive rate reductions, but overall it made no difference or worked out Being more, it depends on usage.

The OP did

cerastes

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The OP did

The original issue the op raised in the first post and the title of the thread is about changing from prepay as a tenant.

gar32

As a landlord with tenants moving out soon. They had Prepay which I did have to agree to install but if the meter can stay and the tenant can switch without issue. The only problem a LL should have is if the bill is unpaid when leaving. Calling the company before deposit is returned can clear that up quickly. If your LL does not understand you can saves up too €300 a year by switching then he needs some math lessons. A tenant with €300 more in their pocket are more likely to keep paying the rent.

10pennymixup

Clampdown wrote: »

Sorry but your post is laughably wrong.

The landlord does not have any right to force the tenant into using a prepay provider, if they wanted to they would have to put this into the contract.

Changing electricity provider can not be used as cause for keeping a tenant's security deposit, the only way a landlord can do that is if there is unpaid rent, damage to the property or the tenant breaks the lease by moving out early. Those are literally the only 3 reasons.

The PRTB has no remit upon utility bills whatsoever. Those cases are between providers and customers, the PRTB is not a collection agency for utilities. Don't believe me? They publish all judgements on their website, so go have a look and see how many are for charges relating to a utility. They deal mainly with unpaid rent, illegal eviction, property damage, and deposit return/retention cases.

Other than the fact there was a verbal agreement, which should not have been made, there is no reason the OP can't choose his provider. The landlord doesn't need to worry about the bill once it is in OP's name. It's strange that he doesn't realize this himsef, but as you proved yourself above, some landlords have ridiculously bad knowledge about their business and just think they can make it up as they go along to suit them.

Installation of prepay is free. It won't cost the LL anything for OP to have normal on demand electricity. Prepay is for people who struggle to afford electricity on their income and don't want to fall behind and get cut off. A landlord can't force you to use that any more than he can force you to get SKY just because there is a dish installed.

A tenant has the right to choose their utility supplier. I have no problem if a tenant wishes to do so if they tell me about beforehand and have it put back to the original supplier when leaving.

My sole reason for replying to this post is your use of the term "laughably wrong".....there is nothing humorous about your inaccuracies.

A security deposit is supposed to protect the LL against loss. "unpaid rent, damage to the property or the tenant breaks the lease by moving out early", are not "literally"the only 3 reasons to make a deduction* from a security deposit.

In reference to just utilities (and not things like costs for rubbish removal, missing inventory ect just utilities):

When a tenant skips out of a fixed term lease early closing their utily a/c, who is supposed to pay the utility standing charges until a new tenant is found or the term ends, whichever comes first?

When that departing tenant cancels their account at the rented property weeks before actually leaving, putting the account automatically into the LL's name, who is supposed to pay for those standing and usage charges? And no the supplier the tenant was using does not always inform the LL.

When that departing tenant closes their account and purposefully give a smaller and incorrect reading to the utility company without the LL's knowledge, who is supposed to pay for that usage?

If a tenant doesn't pay any utility bills in their name and leaves when those services are cut off, yes the bills are their responsibility but who pays for the re-connection fees?

You claim that "some landlords have ridiculously bad knowledge about their business and just think they can make it up as they go along to suit them". I suggest that you know very little about a profession of which you do not belong. It's a bit like a homeopath telling a surgeon how to do their job.

Oh and yes, if it means drilling through walls, window frames ect for a new installation, a LL can leave a tenant with no alternative but to use the dish that was already installed when the tenant moved in, if they want sat tv.

*(Deduction where the loss incurred is verifiable, not the entire as you suggest, unless the loss is greater than or equal to the amount of the deposit)

crossmolinalad

10pennymixup wrote: »

A tenant has the right to choose their utility supplier. I have no problem if a tenant wishes to do so if they tell me about beforehand and have it put back to the original supplier when leaving.



If a tenant doesn't pay any utility bills in their name and leaves when those services are cut off, yes the bills are their responsibility but who pays for the re-connection fees?



Oh and yes, if it means drilling through walls, window frames ect for a new installation, a LL can leave a tenant with no alternative but to use the dish that was already installed when the tenant moved in, if they want sat tv.

*(Deduction where the loss incurred is verifiable, not the entire as you suggest, unless the loss is greater than or equal to the amount of the deposit)

Know a landlord who had a tenant in his house who didn't pay the utility bill for more than 16 months
House was disconnected for more than a year
The reconnection costs were far more than the deposit paid in
Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again
Tenant had no money so who has to pay the bill??? right the landlord

Sky wont use old dishes/ cables
They remove everything and put up a complete new installation
Had a war about that myself with my present landlord who insisted to use what there is and sky didn't want to use the old stuff Took me 3 months and finally landlord had given me the green light to let them renew dish and cables

bonjurkes

so the end of the story is I moved out of the apartment and broke the contract, for some other reason.

As far as I know, your LL doesn't have rights to call the company and ask about your account. They will only give this information to you. You can show your LL the most recent paid bill before leaving the apartment. But remember that electricity bills are bimonthly in Ireland, so you won't be able to cancel and get a bill instantly and LL shouldn't hold your deposit for more than 2 weeks. So best thing you can do is, letting your LL know that you paid the last bill whenever you do it, just for courtesy. Actually my LL wanted me to send him email of the proofs of paid electric bills.

For future reference, here is how the all stuff works (in case some other person is wondering and would be nice to help them). You are supposed to create a new account under your name for PPP and get activation code etc, whenever you move into the apartment. After doing that, you can move your electricity provider to some other company, and you should call PPP (in 14 days of registration) and get de-activation code. If you want to switch to another provider without activating PPP, you either shouldnt use any electricity or tell the first meter reading to the new provider, otherwise it will be "free electric usage" which is not ethical/illegal.

When you want to leave apartment, you should cancel your current electric provider, and your LL should call PPP to activate prepaid electric again. You can't create a new account just before leaving the apartment (I asked and they said your LL should call PPP and they will handle it).

PPP is the most expensive electricity in Ireland. I'm not sure how widely it's used as provider but I don't know much people happy with it (except LL)

10pennymixup

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Know a landlord who had a tenant in his house who didn't pay the utility bill for more than 16 months
House was disconnected for more than a year
The reconnection costs were far more than the deposit paid in
Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again
Tenant had no money so who has to pay the bill??? right the landlord

In this scenario, it was the tenants responsibility for the re connection not necessarily the rewire. Yes the LL had to cover it as there was no point chasing a man of straw, but still the tenants responsibility

Sky wont use old dishes/ cables
They remove everything and put up a complete new installation
Had a war about that myself with my present landlord who insisted to use what there is and sky didn't want to use the old stuff Took me 3 months and finally landlord had given me the green light to let them renew dish and cables

You're right they won't (surprised they even remove the old stuff). But what would you have done if if the LL dug their heels in because the LL didn't want their property looking like a piece of Swiss cheese

.

Which backs up my point that a LL can deduct from the deposit in reference to utilities.

bonjurkes

I just checked RTB website to remind myself about the deposits (looks like they redesigned the website) and here is the relevant page: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/deposits/

Outstanding utility bills and other charges

If the tenant owes money for utility bills, such as gas or electricity, and the utility bill is in the landlord’s name, the landlord may withhold part or all of the deposit to cover these costs. The tenant should always retain a copy of the bills to ensure that payment is applicable to what is being owed

It says that "landlord's name" for outstanding utility bills and other charges. So, if tenant has unpaid bills etc. as far as I know (probably one of the earlier messages of this thread) it's between tenant and the company (and the collection agency) and based on what's written in the link above, LL can't use deposit for unpaid bills under the name of tenant.

El Weirdo

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Half of the house had to be rewired / made up to standard to get power back again

As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with the tenant.

LollipopJimmy

10pennymixup wrote: »

.

Which backs up my point that a LL can deduct from the deposit in reference to utilities.

The utilities are nothing to do with the landlord. When a tenant leaves and a new tenant moves in the bills are reset to zero. The outstanding bill follows the old tenant.

Even with Prepaypower, if a meter is in a negative balance they will reset it to zero once it has been shown a new tenant is in situ, copy of lease may be required.

Edit: The only thing the landlord could be hit with is a re-connection fee if the property was disconnected which is about €80 if memory serves, I'm a while out of energy so this value may have changed.

crossmolinalad

El Weirdo wrote: »

As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with the tenant.

Yes it has
If the tenant did pay his/her bills the house would not been disconnected and also not been rewired up to the latest standards
If a property is disconnected for 6 months or more you need for reconnection a cert of completion from your spark
Your house electrics needs to be up to standard of today
There was nothing unsafe in his house but it didn't comply anymore

From the ESB site

For six month and two years

If your house has been disconnected for between six months and two years, contact an electricity supplier to register as a customer. The supplier gives you a number called a Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN).

Your electricity supplier then arranges with ESB Networks for the house to be reconnected.

Note: As your house has been disconnected for more than six months, you are required to have the wiring checked. It must be checked and certified by a registered electrical contractor who must then submit a completion certificate on your behalf.



More than two years

f your house has been disconnected for more than two years, apply online or download the NC2 Application Form (PDF | 493KB), Connection to a Single Domestic Dwelling or Farm Premises.
Or you can call 1850 372 757 or +353 21 2386555 if calling from outside the Republic of Ireland to request a copy. You need to complete this form and return it (together with the required location map and site plan)

​
A site visit may be required to assess the situation. If no additional work is required to bring the connection point up to current standards, the house can be reconnected on payment of a re-energisation charge. However, if the connection point is not up to current standards it is treated as a new connection and a new connection charge applies. You will then be issued with a quotation as a fee is payable before your house can be reconnected. You may also be required to provide ducting on the site (PDF | 1MB).
As soon as ESB Networks installs the service and meter, ask your electrical contractor to make the electricity live at the isolator switch.

house was disconnected for more than two years and had to pay for a complete new installation seen by ESB as a complete new house connection
Thanks to the tenant

10pennymixup

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The utilities are nothing to do with the landlord. When a tenant leaves and a new tenant moves in the bills are reset to zero. The outstanding bill follows the old tenant.

Even with Prepaypower, if a meter is in a negative balance they will reset it to zero once it has been shown a new tenant is in situ, copy of lease may be required.

Edit: The only thing the landlord could be hit with is a re-connection fee if the property was disconnected which is about €80 if memory serves, I'm a while out of energy so this value may have changed.

So which is it? Nothing or only one thing?

How about addressing the several other instances in post 53, where a LL could be hit for monies that are the tenants responsibility. There are 4 in the post, you've only addressed one.

And installation of cable/ Sat tv or similar is most definitely something "to do with the LL"

You are correct when you say that bills in the tenants name are the the tenants responsibility. I never said otherwise.