Is it possible to change prepay electric as tenant

bonjurkes

So the question is in the title, I just moved into a new apartment and my landlord is insisting about using prepay electric as he believes (and suggested by other landlords) that prepay electric is the best.

I totally agree that he has his own reasons to believe it's the best, but as tenant side, it cost me an extra compared to non-prepay electric. There is 37 cents of "fee" of prepay electric per day and day rate is higher if you choose day/night rate.

Today I called prepay electric guys and changed the ownership to myself, and I think he is obligated to legally read all the terms and conditions on phone, so he said something like "you can change your mind in 14 days and get it removed".

So my question is, is it possible for me to stop using prepay electric (I think it's not my right to get this system removed, as there is pinpad etc.) and switch to normal electric company. And when I leave apartment, LL can re-enable this system for future tenants.

Can I do this by myself as tenant at the house? I am not sure if LL will be happy about it (not sure if he has any rights to say anything about it) or not, but just would like to know the possibilities.

Bowlardo

My neighbour has it (she rents) and it is ****ing ridiculous the noise it makes when the credit runs out. I was fairly sure it was more expensive than just paying by DD . Must be the owner who implemented it.

km991148

Depends on your lease I guess, but generally the utilities are the tenants responsibility. Doesnt matter how you pay them as long as you are.

You wouldn't expect to be told you must pay the gas at the post office counter vs a DD would you?

I wouldnt change - not only is it expensive it is an inconvenience.

The landlord is probably worried you will move out and leave a bill.. but even then then not his concern as the bill will be in your name.

bonjurkes

Well we signed a default tenancy agreement so there is no special rule blocking this change. But I asked him before if he is insisting about the pre pay electric and he said "yes". So I don't know if I have to let him know that I got it removed, or make it like a total surprise.

Or also I don't know if I can just deactivate this and change the electric company by myself and pay it however I like.

I am not into doing sneaky things, I just don't want to deal with him about all the talk about why I want it, and he insisting. He can continue using prepay or whatever company he likes, but I want to use it in my own way when I am a tenant in the house.

And yeah, I knew that there is prepay electric company thingy in the house when I moved in. Like I said I am just wondering if it's possible to change it or not.

km991148

Change it. If he asks you about it say you will change it back if he subsidies your bills.

It his property, but your home and your bills. Nothing sneaky about it.

Since he did ask (or "Insist") you may consider it polite to tell him you dont want it as it is more expensive - as you dont want to sour the relationship.

Pkiernan

If you remove it, will you pay to have it reinstalled when you leave? Its not free.

km991148

Pkiernan wrote: »

If you remove it, will you pay to have it reinstalled when you leave? Its not free.

Dont know if that would be the tenants concern in this case?

Whos to say it would cost anything at the time the person moves out?

bonjurkes

Well I will check their website about removing it, installation is free that's for sure. But I need to read the cancellation thing, I think I have a legal timeframe (like it's been told on the phone) to get it removed without fees, and after that I need to give them early notification and some other stuff.

I just don't know how to start the process.

km991148

If it were me I would:

Phone the prepay co and find out for sure the costs involved.

Then check your lease - if nothing mentioned about a prepay meter, then proceed with removal if you are happy with any costs associated.

Finally as a courtesy I would tell the landlord. Although if he doesn't know, then you might not care - but it might upset him when it is deposit refund time, so best to keep on friendly terms. If ll starts getting uppity remind him firmly and politely that it is your tenancy and you will pay the bills however you please.

bonjurkes

There is a clause in the terms & conditions. Would this really cause me a trouble, or it's just written to scare people off? (Your landlord's consent part)


You hereby represent and warrant that you have obtained all necessary and appropriate
consents, permissions and authorisations (including, but not limited to, your landlord's consent
where relevant) in order to grant to us all rights required by us in order to supply electricity to
the Premises, including, without limitation to inspect, read, install, operate, test, calibrate,
replace, maintain, repair, renew, remove and disconnect the PPP Equipment at the Premises.

bonjurkes

I sent a sms to my landlord and he said that he doesn't allow this and it is for saving himself from unpaid bills. Well I will pay all my bills but is it really possible for him to say "no" and block me to change this?

km991148

Regardless of prepays meters ts and cs, what does your lease say?


I don't know what unpaid bills in any given tenants name has to do with your landlord. As far as I know if a tenant done a runner on an energy supplier its up to the energy supplier to get that money from the person names on the bill. When someone else moves in - they get a bill issued in their name.

RE is it possible for him to say no - well he just did.. Whether or not he has any legal power is down to your lease. As I said before I would have checked this first and use that to decide what to do, informing the landlord after. Now that you have explicitly asked him about it all you are doing is antagonising him - irrespective of whether or not he can legally stop you.

km991148

bonjurkes wrote: »

including, but not limited to, your landlord's consent
where relevant

Only your contract with the landlord can tell you this.

bonjurkes

It is a default contract he downloaded from topfloor.ie, no extra changes. So there is no specific rules for "prepay meter" in the lease

Dawney

I moved into a rental property which had a prepay meter installed. Tried it for a month to see if there was a massive difference between bill pay and prepay- and like you found prepay too expensive (living alone- not huge amounts of energy used, so daily rate made a big difference).
I got onto the electricity provider and switched- but the prepay meter was left in- so there was no cost to get rid of it, and nor will there be a re-installation cost should the next tenant decide to switch back. Perhaps this could be an option for you? I was provided with a code to deactivate the meter (from prepay power) once I'd switched to my new provider.

bonjurkes

Thanks Dawney, I will call prepaypower and ask the guys about if it's possible or not.

Would you be prepared to possibly pay a large deposit to the new electricity provider?

I'm asking as it could well happen if there had been bad electricity debts at the property before.

JustAThought

bonjurkes wrote: »

So the question is in the title, I just moved into a new apartment and my landlord is insisting about using prepay electric as he believes (and suggested by other landlords) that prepay electric is the best.

I totally agree that he has his own reasons to believe it's the best, but as tenant side, it cost me an extra compared to non-prepay electric. There is 37 cents of "fee" of prepay electric per day and day rate is higher if you choose day/night rate.

Today I called prepay electric guys and changed the ownership to myself, and I think he is obligated to legally read all the terms and conditions on phone, so he said something like "you can change your mind in 14 days and get it removed".

So my question is, is it possible for me to stop using prepay electric (I think it's not my right to get this system removed, as there is pinpad etc.) and switch to normal electric company. And when I leave apartment, LL can re-enable this system for future tenants.

Can I do this by myself as tenant at the house? I am not sure if LL will be happy about it (not sure if he has any rights to say anything about it) or not, but just would like to know the possibilities.

I'm sure your answer is in your first sentence. Your Ll has insisted you have the pre-pay but here you are in the internet looking for peoples opinions on his condition. You may find a way to decieve him/her and switch against his/her explixit instructions but you will be saying goodbye to your deposit, facing the prospect of an eviction due to breach of contract/agreement and have a judgement against you in the PTrB not to mention kissing any hope of a reference goodbye. These things cost money to re-instate (for gas it's about e200) and any gap in breaking the contract will also have to be made good - by you/your deposit. You may say you'll make good by skipping off early or not giving him/her notice but tbh why lie and decieve and be dishonest? Your LL has specified this as a condition of your renting. No doubt there is good reason; regardless, it is a specified condition & was there when you viewed and agreed the lease. If the cost difference is so great you to and you are willing to underwrite the reconnection fee and any supply contract fees then suggest that you will pre-pay the bill by putting a few hundred in as credit to the account which might appease your lL's doubts. But tbh you seem geared up to be dishonest & go against your specific instructions regarding bills - I would be questioning your whole integrity as a tenant if I was your Ll.

cerastes

Utility companies will ask for a declaration from the landord to change to or from a prepay meter, only the landlord can authorise that.

Also, prepay is not dearer when directly with Bordgais or elec Ireland,

I compared and the rate is identical to Bordgais and electric irelands own per unit rates, the only difference is I couldnt avail of deals or whatever X% offer was on at the time.
And to be blunt, I found there was damn all difference with that when I did that too (I changed from Bord gais to electric Ireland for a percent saving) but it worked out at next to nothing over the year, plus its dependant on your usage anyway, might be colder one year or cold for longer than another year.

the 37 or so cents you are being charged daily is very likely the standing charge which is deducted daily off the prepay meter (it may even be your usage and the standing charge?), this is not counted as coming from electric usage. Its just the same as a person with a credit meter who gets charged the standing charge all in one go monthly or bi monthly when they get their bill.

There is very little difference, unless you are with one of the other companies that supply it like energia? or prepay power? they have to take their cut, so if anything, Id be asking the landlord to go to Bord Gais or Elec Ireland directly as prepay, rather than try change to a credit meter (which you cant officially do with out the landlord signing an authorisation anyway).

bonjurkes

JustAThought wrote: »

I'm sure your answer is in your first sentence. You Ll has insisted you have the pre-pay but here you are in the internet looking for peoples opinions on his condition. You may find a way to decieve him/her and switch against his/her explixit instructions but you will be saying goidbye to your deposit, facing the prospect of an eviction due to breach of contract/agreement and have a judgement against you in the PTrB not to mention kissing any hope of a reference goodbye. These things cost money to re-instate (for gas it's about e200) and any gap innbreaking the contract will also have to be made good - by yiu/your deposit. You may say you'll make good by skipping off early or not giving him/her notice but tbh why lie and decieve and be dishonest? Your LL has specified this as a condition of your renting. No doubt there is good reason; regardless it is a soecified condition & was there when you viewed and agreed the lease. If the cost difference is so great you to and you are willing to underwrite the reconnection fee and any supply contract fees then suggest that you will pre-pay the bill by lutting a frw hundred in as credit to the account which might appease your lL's doubts. But tbh you seem geared up to be dishonest & go against your specific instructions regarding bills - I would be queationing your whole integrity as a tenant if I was your Ll.

I think it doesn't hurt to ask people's opinion over internet right? I talked with prepaypower guys, they said it's okay if meter and keypad stays in house (they said it's even better), so once I am done with my electricity. I will enable prepaypower again, or let landlord decide what to do.

I am not doing anything illegal there, people can change their electricity company and use whatever they want. I am doing the same, nothing is being removed from the apartment. I will pay my own bills and when I am done with apartment I will cancel it. And landlord can use whatever he wants.

My only concern was removing the meter and keypad but like I said it's possible to keep them, so it doesn't have any difference for changing your electric company or your tariff.

Plus, my landlord said that : oh it just costs 37 cents per day as extra, so it's not big deal. If you just do some search at internet, because their rates are higher, in the end it costs more.

The only problem would be, if I don't pay my bills and put myself in trouble while I am in the apartment. I paid him big amount of deposit, just because he is scared that tenants will screw him over. This is the same reason why he insists about prepay electric.

I am paying a grand per month as rent, and I am sure I can handle 70 euro of bill per month. And it's much better than paying more just because my landlord is scared that some tenant will rip him off.

Is it even legal to force your tenant to use specific electric tariff/company? As long as bills paid I can even run a sauna in the house or don't use any hot water at all.

cerastes wrote: »

Utility companies will ask for a declaration from the landord to change to or from a prepay meter, only the landlord can authorise that.

Also, prepay is not dearer when directly with Bordgais or elec Ireland,

I compared and the rate is identical to Bordgais and electric irelands own per unit rates, the only difference is I couldnt avail of deals or whatever X% offer was on at the time.
And to be blunt, I found there was damn all difference with that when I did that too (I changed from Bord gais to electric Ireland for a percent saving) but it worked out at next to nothing over the year, plus its dependant on your usage anyway, might be colder one year or cold for longer than another year.

the 37 or so cents you are being charged daily is very likely the standing charge which is deducted daily off the prepay meter (it may even be your usage and the standing charge?), this is not counted as coming from electric usage. Its just the same as a person with a credit meter who gets charged the standing charge all in one go monthly or bi monthly when they get their bill.

There is very little difference, unless you are with one of the other companies that supply it like energia? or prepay power? they have to take their cut, so if anything, Id be asking the landlord to go to Bord Gais or Elec Ireland directly as prepay, rather than try change to a credit meter (which you cant officially do with out the landlord signing an authorisation anyway).

I talked with both companies, the account is on my name. I just told prepay that I am switching and they said "okay, you don't pay anything" and that's all.

The difference is, I pay higher standing fee (211 euro per year), I pay 37 cents per day which is around 120 euro per year and my day rate gets an increase if I switch to day/night rate.

All tax including, I pay 40 euro per month just for standing fee + other fees + prepay power fee. I don't know how much electric I am going to use but I am sure it will cost more at prepaypower. There is lots of negative or beware comments for prepay power.

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Would you be prepared to possibly pay a large deposit to the new electricity provider?

I'm asking as it could well happen if there had been bad electricity debts at the property before.

Sure I think I can pay up to 1000 euro for deposit to electric company, just to prove that I will not screw them over.

cerastes

bonjurkes wrote: »

I think it doesn't hurt to ask people's opinion over internet right? I talked with prepaypower guys, they said it's okay if meter and keypad stays in house (they said it's even better), so once I am done with my electricity. I will enable prepaypower again, or let landlord decide what to do.

So you are with prepay power?

I am not doing anything illegal there, people can change their electricity company and use whatever they want. I am doing the same, nothing is being removed from the apartment. I will pay my own bills and when I am done with apartment I will cancel it. And landlord can use whatever he wants.

I dont think it costs to change from one form of meter to another with electric, but maybe you would need to up your deposit? to either the landlord or the utlity to show the landlord, either way, you havent really heard what I said, Bord gais and electric ireland cost the same per unit for credit and prepay meters. You should ring them and maybe consider changing to them rather than stay with prepay power. In the least ring them all and compare what their unit rates are and standing charges are.

My only concern was removing the meter and keypad but like I said it's possible to keep them, so it doesn't have any difference for changing your electric company or your tariff.

Plus, my landlord said that : oh it just costs 37 cents per day as extra, so it's not big deal. If you just do some search at internet, because their rates are higher, in the end it costs more.

You pay standing charge with whoever you go with, with prepay its deducted daily, with credit meters it is billed in one go when you get your bill.

The only problem would be, if I don't pay my bills and put myself in trouble while I am in the apartment. I paid him big amount of deposit, just because he is scared that tenants will screw him over. This is the same reason why he insists about prepay electric.

I am paying a grand per month as rent, and I am sure I can handle 70 euro of bill per month. And it's much better than paying more just because my landlord is scared that some tenant will rip him off.

While the landlord isnt repsonsible for someones bill, there are reconnection fees and it can take a while to sort which means the place cant be rented, just because you know you wont do it doesnt mean the landlord knows you wont. They must have got stung before.

Is it even legal to force your tenant to use specific electric tariff/company? As long as bills paid I can even run a sauna in the house or don't use any hot water at all.




I talked with both companies, the account is on my name. I just told prepay that I am switching and they said "okay, you don't pay anything" and that's all.

The difference is, I pay higher standing fee (211 euro per year), I pay 37 cents per day which is around 120 euro per year and my day rate gets an increase if I switch to day/night rate.

Thats something you need to look into and as Ive said, bordgais and elec ireland charge the same standing charges as their credit meters. The fact you pay less on the night rate or more on the day rate is not your landlords fault.

All tax including, I pay 40 euro per month just for standing fee + other fees + prepay power fee. I don't know how much electric I will going to use but I am sure it will cost more at prepaypower. There is lots of negative or beware comments for prepay power.

Then look into and ring the companies I suggested and compare, you dont seem to have researched this, or seem to be hearing my own advice, Id be considering availing of prepaypowers cooling off period and changing to bord gais or electric irelands prepay rate.


Sure I think I can pay up to 1000 euro for deposit to electric company, just to prove that I will not screw them over.

I would be wary of paying over what you need to in terms of deposit? that just writes off any disadvantage you seem to think you have with a prepay meter, that money could be in an account that pays interest rather than sitting in the electric company account. The amount you could lose in interest alone just so you can have a credit meter tells me you havent fully thought this out, not to mention this seems to be a condition of the letting you are aware of.

bonjurkes

I found a deal on bonkers with energia, 1 year fix price 70 euro per month, if I leave early I pay 50 euro of fee. I don't think I can get away with 70 euro a month with prepaypower.

The only problem at this point is what happens when my agreement is over, normally if everything goes fine I want to keep living at my current place more than 1 year. As worst case scenario, I will switch back to prepaypower, pay 50 euro fee to energia.

Like I told you, I am getting service with my money, I should be able to choose whatever I want, when my tenancy agreement is over, I am supposed to switch back to stuff like I found and move out.

If I make landlord pay money for my decision, it's my fault, I will get in trouble and lose my deposit.

edit: prepaypower says that new or returning customer won't have to pay any fees when electricity provider is switched back to them.

cerastes

bonjurkes wrote: »

I found a deal on bonkers with energia, 1 year fix price 70 euro per month, if I leave early I pay 50 euro of fee. I don't think I can get away with 70 euro a month with prepaypower.

The only problem at this point is what happens when my agreement is over, normally if everything goes fine I want to keep living at my current place more than 1 year. As worst case scenario, I will switch back to prepaypower, pay 50 euro fee to energia.

Like I told you, I am getting service with my money, I should be able to choose whatever I want, when my tenancy agreement is over, I am supposed to switch back to stuff like I found and move out.

If I make landlord pay money for my decision, it's my fault, I will get in trouble and lose my deposit.

edit: prepaypower says that new or returning customer won't have to pay any fees when electricity provider is switched back to them.

you dont seem to be listening,
Im reasonably confident that energia and prepaypowers unit rates are higher than Bord gais or Elec Ireland, but its something you need to find out, not me.
Bonkers is good, but I wouldnt just rely on that, ring up and find out what are the unit rates and standing charges of all of the above 4 companies, you need to find that out
50 or 70 per month doesnt matter, your usage does, are there penalty charges attached if you dont spend the agreed amount in units with energia or prepay power? and fees for leaving?
You seem to be more bothered abount not being able to have a credit account which you were aware of when you started your letting?

You say, if you make a mistake you pay, but many dont and leave a bill, which if even not the landlords responsibility, they have to deal with getting resolved, and the deposit usually only covers the rental but now is becoming more common to ask for an amount to cover costs associated with unpaid bills too.

bonjurkes

Prepaypower is most expensive rates, energia offers better rate if you offer them 1 year of contract. If you leave before 1 year, I pay 50 euros as penalty fee.

I checked the prices over bonkers website and signed up one of the offered deal there. The rate and fees offered is good compared to mine. Of course after 1 year rates go up then I can keep using them or switch to something else. My plan is if I don't stay at this apartment for more than 1 year (time will show), I will pay the 50 euro fee as it's stated and transfer back to prepaypower. Prepaypower doesn't charge anything to switch back to them. Energia says they charge you 50 euro, which is reasonable.

cerastes

bonjurkes wrote: »

Prepaypower is most expensive rates, energia offers better rate if you offer them 1 year of contract. If you leave before 1 year, I pay 50 euros as penalty fee.

I checked the prices over bonkers website and signed up one of the offered deal there. The rate and fees offered is good compared to mine. Of course after 1 year rates go up then I can keep using them or switch to something else. My plan is if I don't stay at this apartment for more than 1 year (time will show), I will pay the 50 euro fee as it's stated and transfer back to prepaypower. Prepaypower doesn't charge anything to switch back to them. Energia says they charge you 50 euro, which is reasonable.

You seem to have your mind made up and are not listening, its the unit rate and the standing charge that matter more I think. I belive they will be more with the 2 companies you keep referring to and ignoring what the unit rates and standing charge costs are with Bord Gais and Electric Ireland.
At the least look their rates up and compare all 4 and any other charges that may exist (ie for leaving or if rates change if you sign back on again).

You are more than happy to waste €50 just to leave energia if you dont like them and decide to leave which I dont belive exists with either Bord Gais or Elec Ireland, and would go towards paying probably half or a third of you standing charge each month which you are unhappy about paying???

bonjurkes

I'm sorry, this is the rates and charges. The rate and charges are same as what I pay now, and rates stuff is on right what is offered.

ted1

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Would you be prepared to possibly pay a large deposit to the new electricity provider?

I'm asking as it could well happen if there had been bad electricity debts at the property before.

Not needed for direct debits

Clampdown

JustAThought wrote: »

I'm sure your answer is in your first sentence. You Ll has insisted you have the pre-pay but here you are in the internet looking for peoples opinions on his condition. You may find a way to decieve him/her and switch against his/her explixit instructions but you will be saying goidbye to your deposit, facing the prospect of an eviction due to breach of contract/agreement and have a judgement against you in the PTrB not to mention kissing any hope of a reference goodbye. These things cost money to re-instate (for gas it's about e200) and any gap innbreaking the contract will also have to be made good - by yiu/your deposit. You may say you'll make good by skipping off early or not giving him/her notice but tbh why lie and decieve and be dishonest? Your LL has specified this as a condition of your renting. No doubt there is good reason; regardless it is a soecified condition & was there when you viewed and agreed the lease. If the cost difference is so great you to and you are willing to underwrite the reconnection fee and any supply contract fees then suggest that you will pre-pay the bill by lutting a frw hundred in as credit to the account which might appease your lL's doubts. But tbh you seem geared up to be dishonest & go against your specific instructions regarding bills - I would be queationing your whole integrity as a tenant if I was your Ll.

Sorry but your post is laughably wrong.

The landlord does not have any right to force the tenant into using a prepay provider, if they wanted to they would have to put this into the contract.

Changing electricity provider can not be used as cause for keeping a tenant's security deposit, the only way a landlord can do that is if there is unpaid rent, damage to the property or the tenant breaks the lease by moving out early. Those are literally the only 3 reasons.

The PRTB has no remit upon utility bills whatsoever. Those cases are between providers and customers, the PRTB is not a collection agency for utilities. Don't believe me? They publish all judgements on their website, so go have a look and see how many are for charges relating to a utility. They deal mainly with unpaid rent, illegal eviction, property damage, and deposit return/retention cases.

Other than the fact there was a verbal agreement, which should not have been made, there is no reason the OP can't choose his provider. The landlord doesn't need to worry about the bill once it is in OP's name. It's strange that he doesn't realize this himsef, but as you proved yourself above, some landlords have ridiculously bad knowledge about their business and just think they can make it up as they go along to suit them.

Installation of prepay is free. It won't cost the LL anything for OP to have normal on demand electricity. Prepay is for people who struggle to afford electricity on their income and don't want to fall behind and get cut off. A landlord can't force you to use that any more than he can force you to get SKY just because there is a dish installed.

ted1

bonjurkes wrote: »

Prepaypower is most expensive rates, energia offers better rate if you offer them 1 year of contract. If you leave before 1 year, I pay 50 euros as penalty fee.

I checked the prices over bonkers website and signed up one of the offered deal there. The rate and fees offered is good compared to mine. Of course after 1 year rates go up then I can keep using them or switch to something else. My plan is if I don't stay at this apartment for more than 1 year (time will show), I will pay the 50 euro fee as it's stated and transfer back to prepaypower. Prepaypower doesn't charge anything to switch back to them. Energia says they charge you 50 euro, which is reasonable.

If you move you can transfer your energia account to your new place. So no need for the 50 euro. You then ring up electric Ireland , pinergy etc and they'll them you want to go prepay give them the meter code

cerastes

bonjurkes wrote: »

I'm sorry, this is the rates and charges. The rate and charges are same as what I pay now, and rates stuff is on right what is offered.

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring bord gais and elec ireland
By the way Bord Gais Unit rates for electricity are 5.6 cent, not sure what that prepayment charge above is all about, probably their fee,
outta here

ted1

cerastes wrote: »

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring bord gais and elec ireland
By the way Bord Gais Unit rates for electricity are 5.6 cent, not sure what that prepayment charge above is all about, probably their fee,
outta here

5.6c are for electricity are you having a laugh?