Can I get a smart thermostat for my oil boiler?

bk

Graham wrote: »

We have 2 Arlo cameras covering the remote tank/boiler which gives us a little more peace of mind with the added indirect benefit of supporting the Duracell share price

Might I suggest you get long life NiMH rechargeable "ready to go/precharged" batteries and charger.

These batteries have gotten seriously good since the crappy rechargeable batteries of the past. They basically use the same tech as the battery in your phone and laptop, just in AA and AAA size and they have come down to very reasonable prices now.

They also benefit in that they won't leak like Duracells, thus potentially destroying your expensive device. I've now thrown out all Duracells and use these exclusively.

If you are in Dublin, Ikea has very good ones at a very good price. They are actually just Ikea branded Eneloops made by Panasonic, which are by far the best battery on the market. Ikea's battery chargers are also very good and reasonably priced.

Roen

Right so Hive support got back and wouldn't commit either way. Get an engineer out and have him decide was their line on it.

Feck it, there's one way to find out for sure. Pay day can't come quick enough.

2011

Roen wrote: »

Actually lads,

Would anyone have any input into the wiring here. I popped off the Towerchron QE1



I see two neutrals, no idea where they are going though, one from the board and one to the boiler?
Two lives, one to L and one to 4.
The one from L is looped to 3. I presume 3 powers the Towerchron timer unit on the wall that I popped off.
4 goes to the boiler I am guessing.

I'm reluctant to make that final jump and buy just in case I can't use it.
I sent the same photo to the Hive support guys. No answer as of yet.

Thanks,
R.

I am not familiar with this particular brand, so this is an educated guess from installing many similar time switches over the years.

Assuming that this is wired correctly / normally:

● Terminal N cable 1, blue: Neutral from the distribution board which powers the timer.

● Terminal N cable 2, blue: Neutral from the timer to the boiler.

● Terminal L cable 1, brown: Phase (live) from the distribution board to power the timer.

● Terminal L cable 2, brown: Phase to the timer switch, terminal 3. When the timer switches on it will connect the supply from terminal 3 to terminal 4. When the timer switches off terminal 3 will no longer be electrically connected to terminal 4.

● Terminal 4, brown cable: Switched live output to boiler. When the timer switches on this will become live switching the boiler on.

I would expect terminals 3 & 4 to be a "dry contact". This means that I could use this timer to switch a different voltage (other than mains). So instead of looping from L to 3 with a mains voltage supply I could connect 24 VDC to 3 and then when the switch activates 24 VDC would appear on terminal 4.

I hope this make sense

adam88

Lads I'm a complete newbie to this and sorry to hog this post.

Anyway. 3 bed bungalow. Zoned. Living space, bedrooms and water. What I want is a unit that I can use on my phone to turn on when I'm on my way home and set timing schedules. The working of the hive don't interest me as I do shift work and my work is all over the place.

Also I'd like something that i could link into an app and use other home automation stuff like philips hue all from the one app

Roen

2011 wrote: »

I am not familiar with this particular brand, so this is an educated guess from installing many similar time switches over the years.

Assuming that this is wired correctly / normally:

● Terminal N cable 1, blue: Neutral from the distribution board which powers the timer.

● Terminal N cable 2, blue: Neutral from the timer to the boiler.

● Terminal L cable 1, brown: Phase (live) from the distribution board to power the timer.

● Terminal L cable 2, brown: Phase to the timer switch, terminal 3. When the timer switches on it will connect the supply from terminal 3 to terminal 4. When the timer switches off terminal 3 will no longer be electrically connected to terminal 4.

● Terminal 4, brown cable: Switched live output to boiler. When the timer switches on this will become live switching the boiler on.

I would expect terminals 3 & 4 to be a "dry contact". This means that I could use this timer to switch a different voltage (other than mains). So instead of looping from L to 3 with a mains voltage supply I could connect 24 VDC to 3 and then when the switch activates 24 VDC would appear on terminal 4.

I hope this make sense

It does indeed. Many thanks 2011. I appreciate the detailed reply!

I'm going to chance the Hive on the next pay day. Feck it.

However just to complicate things I have discovered a motorised valve in the hot press , attached to a switch that just heats water only, no radiators.

So it looks like I have two zones, heat and water.

So here's the rub, do I get the Hive for heating only or do I get the heat and water one?

This is a 2006 house that I have just moved in to with my fiancée so I am still discovering how things are laid out. There's a bit more of tracing back of cables and pipes to be done I think!
Thanks once more.
R.

punisher5112

Roen wrote: »

It does indeed. Many thanks 2011. I appreciate the detailed reply!

I'm going to chance the Hive on the next pay day. Feck it.

However just to complicate things I have discovered a motorised valve in the hot press , attached to a switch that just heats water only, no radiators.

So it looks like I have two zones, heat and water.

So here's the rub, do I get the Hive for heating only or do I get the heat and water one?

This is a 2006 house that I have just moved in to with my fiancée so I am still discovering how things are laid out. There's a bit more of tracing back of cables and pipes to be done I think!
Thanks once more.
R.

You would need a dual zone device or you wouldn't have 2 zones.

Nest or similar will work.

The netatamo is great for single zone or you could double up and get 2 but that would be better suited if you wanted upstairs and downstairs separate.

Teyla Emmagan

If you wait till Feb you can get a free Hive from Bord Gains if you sign up to a dual fuel contract with them.

Roen

adam88 wrote: »

Lads I'm a complete newbie to this and sorry to hog this post.

Anyway. 3 bed bungalow. Zoned. Living space, bedrooms and water. What I want is a unit that I can use on my phone to turn on when I'm on my way home and set timing schedules. The working of the hive don't interest me as I do shift work and my work is all over the place.

Also I'd like something that i could link into an app and use other home automation stuff like philips hue all from the one app

I think any of the Nest/Netatmo/Tado/Climote/Hive/HeatMiser would suit you. They all provide app control and allow time scheduling.
But bear in mind some boilers are not compatible with some of these systems. So it will depend on what particular set up you have at home, also factor in running costs, I think Climote uses a subscription service or a SIM card you have to top up.

Can't help on an app to have them all in once place, maybe a Samsung Smartthings hub? I'm sure someone will have more knowledge and will inform you sooner or later here.

Roen

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

If you wait till Feb you can get a free Hive from Bord Gains if you sign up to a dual fuel contract with them.

I called them yesterday and they don't install them on oil boilers at the mo, just gas according to the guy on the phone.
Not sure when that will change though.
Where did you see that offer can I ask?

Roen

punisher5112 wrote: »

You would need a dual zone device or you wouldn't have 2 zones.

Nest or similar will work.

The netatamo is great for single zone or you could double up and get 2 but that would be better suited if you wanted upstairs and downstairs separate.

This is the lad I was thinking of getting. Heat + Water
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B011B3J6B8/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

2011

Roen wrote: »

I called them yesterday and they don't install them on oil boilers at the mo, just gas according to the guy on the phone.
Not sure when that will change though.
Where did you see that offer can I ask?

From both an electrical and controls perspective it does not matter if the boiler gas or oil. Any competent electrician should be able to install this for you.

If you want to heat domestic hot water separately from the radiators (which would be best and would save you money) then you require a "2 channel" device. This is effectively 2 timed switches in one unit that can be programmed and switched independently.

rolion

Hi,
The best device /solution that allows splitting your home one zone heating in to single, individually and central control based is the Honeywell Evohome.
I have it and is working wonderful...

Roen

I think I remember talking to you about this in the Plumbing and Heating forum.
It is certainly by far the most attractive for me. Having only one zone for heating isn't great.
However my situation has now changed and there's a baby on the way. I could see those valves being made ****e of inside a year or two.
That said there's a vandal/tamper cover you can get for the TRVs isn't there?

Ultimately the long and short of it is that while it was once in my budget I might struggle to get such an expensive system past the war dept.

The 8 TRV value pack is about €773 at the moment. We need another Brexit to make Sterling slump further I think.

Graham

Roen wrote: »

Ultimately the long and short of it is that while it was once in my budget I might struggle to get such an expensive system past the war dept.

The 8 TRV value pack is about €773 at the moment. We need another Brexit to make Sterling slump further I think.

I just spat coffee everywhere. Thanks for brightening up a dull Monday morning. :pac:

rolion

Roen wrote: »

The 8 TRV value pack is about €773 at the moment. We need another Brexit to make Sterling slump further I think.

You dont have to splash money on the whole kit initially.
You can buy the controller and a single radiator valve and keep upscalling based on,well ... the sterling to euro parity !

lolliedog

Can someone explain how smart thermostats work with dump thermostatic rad valves. Wouldn't they have to be set to the same temp otherwise there is conflict.

bk

lolliedog wrote: »

Can someone explain how smart thermostats work with dump thermostatic rad valves. Wouldn't they have to be set to the same temp otherwise there is conflict.

In the room that has the smart thermostat, then yes, the TRV needs to be set to max temperature. In the other rooms, you could set the TRV's lower if you want to keep those unused rooms at a lower temperature.

BTW Netamto have just launched smart TRV's that can be controlled by the Thermostat and apps.

cerastes

Roen wrote: »

I think I remember talking to you about this in the Plumbing and Heating forum.
It is certainly by far the most attractive for me. Having only one zone for heating isn't great.
However my situation has now changed and there's a baby on the way. I could see those valves being made ****e of inside a year or two.
That said there's a vandal/tamper cover you can get for the TRVs isn't there?

Ultimately the long and short of it is that while it was once in my budget I might struggle to get such an expensive system past the war dept.

The 8 TRV value pack is about €773 at the moment. We need another Brexit to make Sterling slump further I think.

I know probably better in the heating and plumbing forum but was following this thread, is it possible to buy the the trv valves only? I have some spare trv heads I wanted to use but not the valves or return fitting, which I wanted to get so they matched the trv valve but also as some of the plastic blank covers are missing.

Roen

cerastes wrote: »

I know probably better in the heating and plumbing forum but was following this thread, is it possible to buy the the trv valves only? I have some spare trv heads I wanted to use but not the valves or return fitting, which I wanted to get so they matched the trv valve but also as some of the plastic blank covers are missing.

I think so, if you are referring to the part that is plumbed to the rad.

https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/radiator-valve-bodies/47-honeywell-valencia-v120-15a-manual-radiator-valve-15mm-angled.html

The TRV head then just screws down on to this. You could put your TRV head on to this, then if you ever upgraded you could pop off your old TRV heads and stick on one of the motorised guys.

Not sure about return fittings to be honest!

Roen

Graham wrote: »

I just spat coffee everywhere. Thanks for brightening up a dull Monday morning. :pac:

Ha, only seeing this now. You're welcome

Well I've pulled the trigger and got the Hive. So now, I'm having hassle registering for an account. If I try use a UK postcode via the app it just tells me that my basket is empty.
The Irish site says that they'll email details after buying it and the UK site doesn't seem to have an option to register.

How did you get around this Graham?

Graham

Roen wrote: »

Ha, only seeing this now. You're welcome

Well I've pulled the trigger and got the Hive. So now, I'm having hassle registering for an account. If I try use a UK postcode via the app it just tells me that my basket is empty.
The Irish site says that they'll email details after buying it and the UK site doesn't seem to have an option to register.

How did you get around this Graham?

Phone the U.K. support number using Skype, they'll have you sorted in 5 minutes.

I registered on the U.K. site using a U.K. post code. The Irish phone number made activation fail but a quick call sorted it all.

Roen

Graham wrote: »

Phone the U.K. support number using Skype, they'll have you sorted in 5 minutes.

I registered on the U.K. site using a U.K. post code. The Irish phone number made activation fail but a quick call sorted it all.

Cheers,

Must give that a whirl later!

*EDIT* Sorted, thanks Graham!

drunkmonkey

Finally got everything up and running. One nest controlling radiators/hot water downstairs and one controlling radiators upstairs.

Now what I'm after is something to control the hot water tempature that connects to nest.
Currently with nest it's either on or off via schedule/app. I'd like to be able to work it via water temperature, I've read you need an open term compatiable oil boiler, have I that correct? I've a grant vortex and can't find any info about open therm and it.

Is it a useful thing to be able to do, control the water temperature via nest?
Or should I just leave it as is, controlling water temperature via tempature stat on hot water cylinder?

Just not sure of the benefits.

bk

opentherm is fairly new and most boilers don't support it. So unless you are willing to pay in the region of €3,500 for a new boiler, no you won't be able to adjust the temp.

And to be honest it isn't really worth it anyway. Opentherm can only slightly adjust the temp, there is a relatively high minimum it can't drop below for health safety reasons anyway. You can only adjust the temperature between 55 and 65c. Not worth the effort IMO.

ThisRegard

When we changed our boiler recently I looked into the Opentherm thing, there aren't many out there. For our requirements setting the water temperature on the boiler itself is more than adequate.

drunkmonkey

Cheers Chaps

Did ye look into room temperature sensors that work with nest, don't need them in every room but wouldn't mind them in the kids rooms?

ThisRegard

What I did with my Netatmo was put the thermostat into the toddlers room overnight. Only got the Nest installed this week so haven't really had time to play around with it or decide what's the best place for it.