Electricity Meter installed by Landlord

jinnie25

Conor03 wrote: »

your landlord has the right to have a new meter installed as he owns the house however unless specifically noted in your lease, you have the right to change electricity companies as you see fit. For prepaid meters, the standing charge is sometimes included in the unit rate which appears to be what is happening in your case. I would not allow you LL install a coin box as this is not something the electricity companies do. you mentioned a digital meter, this may be the new smart meter that will eventually be in all household which allows the companies to have a real time account of the units being consumed.

Thanks Conor. We actually pay in coins ourselves - €1 and €2 euro coins. The meter shows all the details in digital format. The landlord will collect the coins himself, I'm guessing every month or second month. I've asked for the bill when it comes in and was told there is no need for me to see it!

Ms Doubtfire1

can't you just get on to the electric supplier?

TheDoc

L1011 wrote: »

You have clearly changed your usage habits hugely to account for the risk of running out.

Move to a normal provider and keep those habits and you'll be paying even less.

OK so pretty sure I havn't, if I did then I probably would have said it.

If anything I've more on the go in the house this time around, with an electric shower I didn't have before and some new technology.

runawaybishop

TheDoc wrote: »

OK so pretty sure I havn't, if I did then I probably would have said it.

If anything I've more on the go in the house this time around, with an electric shower I didn't have before and some new technology.

You've changed your usage. Prepay Meters cost more. If your bill is smaller then you are using less electricity.

Jayop

Sounds like your getting a reasonable price and the beauty of not having to worry about another bill coming in at the end of the month. just keep enough coins around so you don't run out at an awkward time.

L1011

TheDoc wrote: »

OK so pretty sure I havn't, if I did then I probably would have said it.

If anything I've more on the go in the house this time around, with an electric shower I didn't have before and some new technology.

You have - or else you'd be paying more. Compare actual kW/h not cost.

Pkiernan

OP - if your total cost is 22c per kWhr then your getting a good deal.
No standing charge, no deposit.
I doubt you'd do better with it in your name.

jinnie25

Pkiernan wrote: »

OP - if your total cost is 22c per kWhr then your getting a good deal.
No standing charge, no deposit.
I doubt you'd do better with it in your name.

Thanks PKiernan that's good to know if it is the case! I just wouldn't have a clue. The fact that the landlord doesn't think I need to see the esb bill is strange to me. I don't know why he should care either way whether I want to see it or not!

riclad

because there may be no bill , my landlord read the meter, i could read it,
since the bill was so low i did,nt worry about it. I
never bothered reading it.
it would be complex to provide a printed bill to each flat in a house ,
and if you are paying the standard rate per unit, it should not matter .

L1011

riclad wrote: »

it would be complex to provide a printed bill to each flat in a house ,

Not if they all have actual meters (as opposed to some secondary coinop).

The OPs scenario definitely has a single dwelling meter.

jinnie25

riclad wrote: »

because there may be no bill , my landlord read the meter, i could read it,
since the bill was so low i did,nt worry about it. I
never bothered reading it.
it would be complex to provide a printed bill to each flat in a house ,
and if you are paying the standard rate per unit, it should not matter .

I'm not paying the standard rate. I'm paying above that. I am renting a house not a flat.

JustAThought

jinnie25 wrote: »

I'm not paying the standard rate. I'm paying above that. I am renting a house not a flat.

You say you have a good deal on the rent. And this was done as a favour by a family friend. Great. Sounds like you have no experience if renting or paying bills but are prepared to believe this nice person and family friend who gave you a break and let you live somewhere nice cheap is ripping you off for smallchange .

Landlords like prepaymeters / control of bill payment because it stops them being left with big unpaid bills when the tenant goes or can't pay, or are cut off and have to then pay reconnection fees which I think run at e180/e200.

Different LX suppliers have different terms & conditions and rates And packages. The landlord, who you were not complaining about when he did not charge you for LX used over Aug/Sept has chosen a provider they have evaluated as being good value & easy to use. Often people swapping service providers forget that there are/can be financial penalties for switching before the end of the 12 or 18 month term which the landlord can get stung for after you have swapped and gone, or other logistical issues like you having to ring in with meter readings at odd hours often where they have less staff & you are on hold waiting at e1.50 per minute etc.

My utility bill is a disaster to read - I'm not surprised the guy dosn't want to get into arguments with you over it & meeting you to explain it. He has a meter rate set that will cover all the government LX taxes, standing charge tax, non overuse if units at set rate not exceeded tax/charge (yes-this exists), environmental tax charge and basic unit charge as well as VAT charge/tax on ALL of this AND taking into account that a meter reader bill is ALWAYS at a higher rate than a normal one.

From what you say he has already been more than fair and generous to you - instead of creating bad feeling and a problem over the possibility of theft of a few shillings why not just consider that he has alteady been generous and kind to you and take on trust that he is not doing grant theft electricity & just dosn't want the hassle. Because if someone I had let off two Or More months of bills and given a fair deal to and been nice to was riding me and I thought was badmouthing me to my friends I would suddenly need the house back for a family member/personal use and that will be you walking the streets looking for a bedsit crying into your cornflakes .

Meters always cause problems with multishares because when money is tight people get wary and complain that the tenner coin/credit was used when they wern't there its aomeone elses turn to pay etc. Betrer approach would be to watch the uaeage and the payments made in & figure out a system in the house where you each pay a certain amount each week or fortnight to save internal squabbling. Believe me, the landlord would not have installed a meter if he thought there was no problem and if he had had good experiences in the past. He will not know how many showers you take or for how long, or how many PC's or playstations you use, or if you leave the bathroom or outside or hallway light on all night so can't evaluate what you bill might be . Instead of watching him and assuming he is robbing you & creating bad feeling I'd be making an agreement in the house share for a stash of coins to be uploaded & an agreement on when & how much & going from there. Adults, particularly friends & those who have been generous & given you a good financial break and let you live cheeply and not pay bills for months, do not typically choose to ride you over a few fivers every couple if months - if they were as evil as you think they would just put the rent to market rate or move you on. Nobody wants the hassle.

riclad

You should be able to read your meter ,say i used 1000,units thats
1000x unit rate .my bill will be x euros,
IF im getting overcharged i,ll know it.
that way u know u are not getting overcharged ,
I have never heard of a landlord installing a meter in a house
with one tenant,
Since every house has a meter installed by the esb .
I got a new consumer unit/fusebox installed by a recci registered electrician
,i,d never think of getting another esb meter installed.
Theres a standard esb meter there for 20 years .
My bad ,i thought you were living in a house divided into 2 or 3 flats .


ever house should have an esb meter readable by the tenant ,
close to the front door ,or maybe in a cabinet acessed by a key.

crossmolinalad

riclad wrote: »

You should be able to read your meter ,say i used 1000,units thats
1000x unit rate .my bill will be x euros,
IF im getting overcharged i,ll know it.
that way u know u are not getting overcharged ,
I have never heard of a landlord installing a meter in a house
with one tenant,
Since every house has a meter installed by the esb .
I got a new consumer unit/fusebox installed by a recci registered electrician
,i,d never think of getting another esb meter installed.
Theres a standard esb meter there for 20 years .
My bad ,i thought you were living in a house divided into 2 or 3 flats .


ever house should have an esb meter readable by the tenant ,
close to the front door ,or maybe in a cabinet acessed by a key.

Mine did too I live alone in a single house have a ESB meter and a meter owned by landlord and have to put in euro`s to have light
Asked landlord why and his answer was the farm shed `s next door are his to and using the same ESB meter as the house
Have no problems with it pay 19 cent a KWh and have water for free Farm is using water from the same meter as the house
maybe their landlord do have some use over the same meter so he did put a separate meter in theyr house so she do pay her part and he pays his part

misstearheus

Conor03 wrote: »

your landlord has the right to have a new meter installed as he owns the house however unless specifically noted in your lease, you have the right to change electricity companies as you see fit.

Is this definite Conor that a Tenant can change Electricity Provider of the Meter-Box? Apologies for o/t question.

Stoner

L1011 wrote:

The former is a very dodgy grey area - landlords reselling power may need to be approved by the CER as an energy provider; there's been threads on it before.

Correct these check Meyers are illegal. We haven't put one in in years

misstearheus

misstearheus wrote: »

Is this definite Conor that a Tenant can change Electricity Provider of the Meter-Box? Apologies for o/t question.

If the account is in your name you can change provider as you please, if it's in the LL name you can not.

jinnie25

JustAThought wrote: »

You say you have a good deal on the rent. And this was done as a favour by a family friend. Great. Sounds like you have no experience if renting or paying bills but are prepared to believe this nice person and family friend who gave you a break and let you live somewhere nice cheap is ripping you off for smallchange .

Landlords like prepaymeters / control of bill payment because it stops them being left with big unpaid bills when the tenant goes or can't pay, or are cut off and have to then pay reconnection fees which I think run at e180/e200.

Different LX suppliers have different terms & conditions and rates And packages. The landlord, who you were not complaining about when he did not charge you for LX used over Aug/Sept has chosen a provider they have evaluated as being good value & easy to use. Often people swapping service providers forget that there are/can be financial penalties for switching before the end of the 12 or 18 month term which the landlord can get stung for after you have swapped and gone, or other logistical issues like you having to ring in with meter readings at odd hours often where they have less staff & you are on hold waiting at e1.50 per minute etc.

My utility bill is a disaster to read - I'm not surprised the guy dosn't want to get into arguments with you over it & meeting you to explain it. He has a meter rate set that will cover all the government LX taxes, standing charge tax, non overuse if units at set rate not exceeded tax/charge (yes-this exists), environmental tax charge and basic unit charge as well as VAT charge/tax on ALL of this AND taking into account that a meter reader bill is ALWAYS at a higher rate than a normal one.

From what you say he has already been more than fair and generous to you - instead of creating bad feeling and a problem over the possibility of theft of a few shillings why not just consider that he has alteady been generous and kind to you and take on trust that he is not doing grant theft electricity & just dosn't want the hassle. Because if someone I had let off two Or More months of bills and given a fair deal to and been nice to was riding me and I thought was badmouthing me to my friends I would suddenly need the house back for a family member/personal use and that will be you walking the streets looking for a bedsit crying into your cornflakes .

Meters always cause problems with multishares because when money is tight people get wary and complain that the tenner coin/credit was used when they wern't there its aomeone elses turn to pay etc. Betrer approach would be to watch the uaeage and the payments made in & figure out a system in the house where you each pay a certain amount each week or fortnight to save internal squabbling. Believe me, the landlord would not have installed a meter if he thought there was no problem and if he had had good experiences in the past. He will not know how many showers you take or for how long, or how many PC's or playstations you use, or if you leave the bathroom or outside or hallway light on all night so can't evaluate what you bill might be . Instead of watching him and assuming he is robbing you & creating bad feeling I'd be making an agreement in the house share for a stash of coins to be uploaded & an agreement on when & how much & going from there. Adults, particularly friends & those who have been generous & given you a good financial break and let you live cheeply and not pay bills for months, do not typically choose to ride you over a few fivers every couple if months - if they were as evil as you think they would just put the rent to market rate or move you on. Nobody wants the hassle.

Wow JustAThought, I actually posted without giving too much information away about myself in case someone somewhere would recognise who I'm talking about and from the frustratingly little I've said, you've gleaned quite a lot of information about my situation!! It was amusing to read. However, I would like to clarify a few things!

For starters, I've been renting for almost 20 years and paying plenty of bills on top of that unfortunately!! Not only is the Landlord doing us a favour by charging us approximately €60-80 less per month on rent (than market value), we are doing him a favour too by paying all our bills and rent on time and having the utmost respect for his property. It's a two way thing you know! The reason he wanted us to take the property is exactly as you have described above, so we don't do a runner. And we can't very well do a runner (or even want to do a runner) when he's a friend of the family now.

Regarding not paying electricity over Sept/Oct, I tried strongly to get this bill and pay what we owed. But he was having none of it. How kind I know, but to be honest, I would rather keep things above board and I wanted to pay it for the reason that I don't need favours and I don't want things like that used against me when I'm trying to get to the bottom of other things, perhaps the coin meter.

You may actually be surprised to hear that the landlord is not avoiding arguments with me because there have been no arguments!! I agreed to the coin meter being installed and (naively) afterwards started to question the whole thing in my head when I saw the amount we were being charged per kilowatt. Because I know so little about coin meters, instead of jumping to mad conclusions and verbally attacking the landlord, I decided to try and do some research first and was everything above board. The fact that I asked (nicely) to see the ESB bill when it comes in as I like to have an official document of what I'm paying, and was refused on the grounds that it wouldn't be of any benefit to me, threw me slightly and suspicions again crept in.

I'm trying to figure out your bit about bad mouthing the landlord to friends? I'd be interested for you to point that bit out to me? Also, walking the streets looking for a bedsit crying into my cornflakes - what?!

I am actually married so a husband, a 3 year old and a 6 month old as tenants to fight over coins for the meter ain't going to happen! Plenty of internal squabbling you are correct, but over different matters!

I never once suggested the landlord is "evil"! I simply came on here to ask a question!

jinnie25

Just to move on from my above post, thanks to everyone who responded.

I was actually correct to be concerned and somewhat suspicious over not being allowed to see the bill. There is a tenant living in a log cabin in the garden (didn't bring it up before as didn't see the need) but this tenant has been away since the coin meter was installed. The tenant came back on Sunday. We had a tenner in the coin meter on Sunday (just put in that morning) and it whirred away completely in about 7-8 hours after he arrived back. A tenner would normally last us about 5 or 6 days. We didn't have anything extra on in the house or do anything different. I haven't mentioned it to the landlord yet as haven't had the chance. The tenant is gone again and we are back to paying much less as he's not about.

I was speaking to the tenant before he left and just asked casually about how he pays his electricity (I don't want to bring it up with him yet what happened, I just wanted to see what he'd say). He did say he has a meter and the landlord collects his coins too. So I'm confused! He mentioned because he was away for so long he had a lot of washing to do and had all the heaters on in the cabin as the place hadn't been lived in for a while!

Does that sound like he's paying for his electricity and we are too?! Very odd to me!

jinnie25

jinnie25 wrote: »

we are doing him a favour too by paying all our bills and rent on time and having the utmost respect for his property.

This is not doing a favour, it's is the bare minimum that's expected from a tenant.

jinnie25

Emery Victorious Newspaperman wrote: »

This is not doing a favour, it's is the bare minimum that's expected from a tenant.

Unfortunately this is how it is. You can't go around with your head in the clouds when renting out property to tenants. It can be difficult to get good tenants and landlords can be incredibly unlucky. For peace of mind, getting in tenants that you know and have proof that they are good tenants can be a godsend.

athtrasna

jinnie25 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is how it is. You can't go around with your head in the clouds when renting out property to tenants. It can be difficult to get good tenants and landlords can be incredibly unlucky. For peace of mind, getting in tenants that you know and have proof that they are good tenants can be a godsend.

Actually that can be a recipe for disaster. A situation like you currently have could burn bridges forever. It's easier to deal with strangers (vetted) when times get difficult.

And as a previous poster pointed out, what you think makes you amazing tenants, simply makes you compliant tenants.

Challenge your ll on the meter but prepare for him to turn around and terminate your lease, there are plenty who would do just that when you start making demands.

jinnie25

athtrasna wrote: »

Actually that can be a recipe for disaster. A situation like you currently have could burn bridges forever. It's easier to deal with strangers (vetted) when times get difficult.

And as a previous poster pointed out, what you think makes you amazing tenants, simply makes you compliant tenants.

Challenge your ll on the meter but prepare for him to turn around and terminate your lease, there are plenty who would do just that when you start making demands.

Exactly. Compliant is the word I should have used. Not "good tenants". Never said "amazing".
It's so true, dealing with strangers is so much easier. I've always believed that but sometimes things don't work the way you want them to. When we were moving we were badly stuck as no other houses were for rent in the area believe it or not.
I'm not taking on my landlord or about to make demands. Like I said I just asked a question and got some good answers here. I like to suss out things when I'm not sure of my situation. Nothing wrong with that. I also have discovered something is not right regarding the other tenant and how the electricity is actually being paid for. I shall suss this out too.
These things can be done nicely you know. Which is how I am approaching it. I won't be homeless, can guarantee that!

riclad

You are getting a fair deal ,re price per unit, why bother complaining now,
wait until you get your first bill and see is that in line with your previous
esb bill for the same time period,
note the date when the meter was installed .
work out cost per day/week.
i know one landlord ,after 15months of getting no rent payments from a VERY rude agressive tenant,
he switched off the esb supply,using the meter,
the tenant then left after a week as he had no acess to a power supply.
Whether it was legal to switch off the supply is another story.
the landlord might have good reasons to install his own meter .

crossmolinalad

jinnie25 wrote: »

Just to move on from my above post, thanks to everyone who responded.

I was actually correct to be concerned and somewhat suspicious over not being allowed to see the bill. There is a tenant living in a log cabin in the garden (didn't bring it up before as didn't see the need) but this tenant has been away since the coin meter was installed. The tenant came back on Sunday. We had a tenner in the coin meter on Sunday (just put in that morning) and it whirred away completely in about 7-8 hours after he arrived back. A tenner would normally last us about 5 or 6 days. We didn't have anything extra on in the house or do anything different. I haven't mentioned it to the landlord yet as haven't had the chance. The tenant is gone again and we are back to paying much less as he's not about.

I was speaking to the tenant before he left and just asked casually about how he pays his electricity (I don't want to bring it up with him yet what happened, I just wanted to see what he'd say). He did say he has a meter and the landlord collects his coins too. So I'm confused! He mentioned because he was away for so long he had a lot of washing to do and had all the heaters on in the cabin as the place hadn't been lived in for a while!

Does that sound like he's paying for his electricity and we are too?! Very odd to me!

Next time when tenant is back switch of all te power comes from your coin meter and you will soon enough know of he is wired up over your meter

jinnie25

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Next time when tenant is back switch of all te power comes from your coin meter and you will soon enough know of he is wired up over your meter

Thanks crossmolinalad, I think he's back this weekend so going to do it then. Our fuse box actually has "log cabin" written on one of the fuses.

I actually spoke to the Landlord today and told him what happened the last time the tenant was home. He was shocked and has no idea how this could be :rolleyes: so we will go along with that and hopefully sort it out asap. There is no way we could afford a tenner a day on electricity when he's about!

crossmolinalad

jinnie25 wrote: »

Thanks crossmolinalad, I think he's back this weekend so going to do it then. Our fuse box actually has "log cabin" written on one of the fuses.

I actually spoke to the Landlord today and told him what happened the last time the tenant was home. He was shocked and has no idea how this could be :rolleyes: so we will go along with that and hopefully sort it out asap. There is no way we could afford a tenner a day on electricity when he's about!

Better is let your meter run out of credit and go shopping then the landlord will understand the problem easier The log tenant wil call the landlord when he is out of power Landlord will check out his problem and will see if its true that your meter count his use also

riclad

i was watching get me a home episode 8,on rte player today
it shows house 4 sale , 390k, divided into 6 bedsits ,
each bedsit had it,s own esb meter .
Unless theres 2 relatives staying in a house ,
each tenant should have a separate meter.
Otherwise you,ll end up paying for someone else,s esb bill,
Which is not fair .