Electricity Meter installed by Landlord

jinnie25

Hi,

I know in the past there have been threads on this subject but I can't seem to get my answer from what I've viewed. I was wondering could someone help me out.

My landlord recently installed an Electricity Meter (digital) in our house. I agreed to this (maybe stupidly?!). I did ask that when the electrician was installing the meter, would he make sure to set it to the ESB standard rate. The landlord said no problem, this would of course be done. The standard rate at the moment seems to be about 16cent per kilowatt.

When I checked the meter, it says we are being charged 22cent per kilowatt. I don't know is this normal - do I need to take into account extra charges that are normally seen on a bill, for example, the standing charge etc. and should I be adding this on to the standard 16cent? I want to have my facts correct before I speak to the landlord as maybe we are not being overcharged like it seems!

Michael D Not Higgins

Is it a prepay meter?

LollipopJimmy

Meters from various companies charge different unit rates. Is it a 24hr meter or day/night? Standard rates are all in the 17odd cent mark for all the companies at the moment including VAT which is what your meter will show. Electric Ireland and SSE in particular quote prices exVAT

Or has your landlord installed his own meter? If that's the case then it probably doesn't account for standing charges and he's upped the unit rate to take this into account

L1011

Is this the landlord installing a coin meter and paying the bill; or a prepay meter that is in your name?

The former is a very dodgy grey area - landlords reselling power may need to be approved by the CER as an energy provider; there's been threads on it before.

If its the latter - these providers are simply painfully dear.

jinnie25

Hi,

Thanks for the replies! Yes, sorry I should have been more clear. I've never dealt with this before so I'm not even sure what I'm talking about myself! It's a coin meter that the landlord has installed himself through his own electrician (not an official ESB meter) and the landlord is collecting the coins and paying the bill.

If this is the case then should I allow for the extra cents the landlord has added on to make up for other charges?

L1011

jinnie25 wrote: »

If this is the case then should I allow for the extra cents the landlord has added on to make up for other charges?

You have little way of knowing if the landlord is profiting (or losing, if you are a low user) off these charges. I wouldn't have agreed to it; but its a bit late now for that. Ask to continue seeing the bills from the provider.

jinnie25

Thanks for that. Funnily enough I asked about getting a copy of the bill and I was told there was no need for me to see it!!!! I was dubious about the whole thing initially (so I know I shouldn't have agreed to it) but now that I've been told I don't need to see the bill, I'm raging with myself!!!!!

dev100

jinnie25 wrote:

Thanks for that. Funnily enough I asked about getting a copy of the bill and I was told there was no need for me to see it!!!! I was dubious about the whole thing initially (so I know I shouldn't have agreed to it) but now that I've been told I don't need to see the bill, I'm raging with myself!!!!!

What kind of heating do you have electric or oil or gas ? As far as I'd be concerned I'd want a contract with a provider . That way I'm in control .... what were your bills like before you agreed to coin meter ? Is it cheaper or dearer than before ? Remember with winter time you will use more energy in your home.

Ms Doubtfire1

I have exactly the same issue with my LL in regards to the waterbills (my property is commercially listed) and he's dragging his feet beyond belief.
I am about to escalate the issue to the tenancy board because it's just not acceptable...might be an idea for you too just to tell him you will maybe?

jinnie25

dev100 wrote: »

What kind of heating do you have electric or oil or gas ? As far as I'd be concerned I'd want a contract with a provider . That way I'm in control .... what were your bills like before you agreed to coin meter ? Is it cheaper or dearer than before ? Remember with winter time you will use more energy in your home.

We only moved in at the end of August. The meter was installed 2 weeks ago and the landlord didn't charge us up to that point but will from now on.

What makes it awkward is the landlord is a friend of my parents. We are getting a fair enough deal on the rent itself so I'm not sure what to do!!

porsche boy

jinnie25 wrote:

Thanks for the replies! Yes, sorry I should have been more clear. I've never dealt with this before so I'm not even sure what I'm talking about myself! It's a coin meter that the landlord has installed himself through his own electrician (not an official ESB meter) and the landlord is collecting the coins and paying the bill.

Was the electrician registered?

riclad

SO your rent is not high ,see what it costs you ,my landlord had a meter for each tenant, he would charge by the units used ,
i went out a lot,i mostly just used my tv ,or games console ,
i did,nt do much cooking at home.
the average cost was 3 euro per week esb in 2007 .
i see no pint in complaining is it ,10 0r 12 cent per unit.

maybe you could just look at the meter .
its 1000 units now, next week its 1050 ,eg i used 50 units .
its not practical to have the esb issue bills to 6 people in one building .
you should have said how much will it charge per unit .
will i be able to read the meter every week.

i see no harm in landlords installing metres for each unit ,
otherwise you could end up paying for electricity used by another tenant who
has the washing machine on 3 hours a day.or uses an electric heater for 5 hours a day.

jinnie25

I have no idea whether the electrician is registered. I don't know who he is. Would that matter? I mean, he could be doing work on the side anyway?

Are these meters legal or how does it work? And is there actually a way of finding out for definite whether I'm being overcharged per kilowatt?

riclad

Say you are charged 10 euro , if you can find out how many units you used
divide 10 x the no of units ,
is that in line with the standard rate charged by the esb .
Landlords can install meters if its done by an electrician registered with reci
or some other industry body.

http://www.reci.ie/

jinnie25

"Say you are charged 10 euro , if you can find out how many units you used
divide 10 x the no of units ,
is that in line with the standard rate charged by the esb .
Landlords can install meters if its done by an electrician registered with reci
or some other industry body"


Thanks for that regarding electricians.
No the meter tells you everything about units etc - what we have used, what we are paying. I know that we are being overcharged as we are paying 22cent per kilowatt in comparison to the ESB standard rate. I was just wondering how to find out for definite if the meter should be set slightly higher than the standard rate to take into consideration other charges like the Standing charge that you would see on an ESB bill.

LollipopJimmy

jinnie25 wrote: »

"Say you are charged 10 euro , if you can find out how many units you used
divide 10 x the no of units ,
is that in line with the standard rate charged by the esb .
Landlords can install meters if its done by an electrician registered with reci
or some other industry body"


Thanks for that regarding electricians.
No the meter tells you everything about units etc - what we have used, what we are paying. I know that we are being overcharged as we are paying 22cent per kilowatt in comparison to the ESB standard rate. I was just wondering how to find out for definite if the meter should be set slightly higher than the standard rate to take into consideration other charges like the Standing charge that you would see on an ESB bill.

ESB Network charge and PSO Levy amount to around 60cent per day. On average people use around 12 units per day so basing it on averages he would up your unit rate by 5c to cover these charges.

jinnie25

Thanks for that LollipopJimmy!

ptogher14

The unit cost is 16.99 cent + VAT @13.5%. This works out at 19.3 cent per kwh. This does not include standing charges so depending on your usage 22 cent is properly near enough the money

pilly

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I have exactly the same issue with my LL in regards to the waterbills (my property is commercially listed) and he's dragging his feet beyond belief.
I am about to escalate the issue to the tenancy board because it's just not acceptable...might be an idea for you too just to tell him you will maybe?

Why would the water bills be your problem? Genuine question now, just wondering?

riclad

sounds like you are getting a fair deal on the cost per unit.
wait until you get the first bill and see is it reasonable .

TheDoc

I remember prepay meters getting a bit of flack on here. I moved into a new rental property earlier this year that the landlord had a prepay meter in for his mother who was the owner of the house previous. I was a bit worried about the stories I heard and read, but in practice now it's been brilliant. I put €40 a month into it and that's it.

I was paying between €120-150 every two months in our previous house on the normal bill cycle stuff.

L1011

TheDoc wrote: »

I remember prepay meters getting a bit of flack on here. I moved into a new rental property earlier this year that the landlord had a prepay meter in for his mother who was the owner of the house previous. I was a bit worried about the stories I heard and read, but in practice now it's been brilliant. I put €40 a month into it and that's it.

I was paying between €120-150 every two months in our previous house on the normal bill cycle stuff.

You have clearly changed your usage habits hugely to account for the risk of running out.

Move to a normal provider and keep those habits and you'll be paying even less.

Xterminator

as i understand it there is a standing charge on prepay accounts. i know you are looking at the unit price but doesn't the landlord have to factor in standing charge and installation/maintenance costs?

LollipopJimmy

L1011 wrote: »

You have clearly changed your usage habits hugely to account for the risk of running out.

Move to a normal provider and keep those habits and you'll be paying even less.

People don't maintain the same habits when on a bill though. Also a lot of people much prefer to break down the bill and pay weekly rather than bi-monthly.

LollipopJimmy

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

People don't maintain the same habits when on a bill though. Also a lot of people much prefer to break down the bill and pay weekly rather than bi-monthly.

But if the aim is to save money then being very frugal on a bill saves more than being frugal on a prepay meter. I'm amazed that many people appear to think they are saving money on prepay when in reality they have drastically changed their usage and are in fact paying more for the amount they do use than of they kept the bill and changed their usage habits.

As for paying weekly, nothing stopping people paying in an amount to their ESB account every week or even sticking it in a jar every week and use it to pay the bill when its due.

Prepay meters have their place and are a handy thing for student houses or for LLs who want to rent rooms separately and keep the utilities in their name but they make no sense at all for a normal home.

LollipopJimmy

Emery Victorious Newspaperman wrote: »

But if the aim is to save money then being very frugal on a bill saves more than being frugal on a prepay meter. I'm amazed that many people appear to think they are saving money on prepay when in reality they have drastically changed their usage and are in fact paying more for the amount they do use than of they kept the bill and changed their usage habits.

As for paying weekly, nothing stopping people paying in an amount to their ESB account every week or even sticking it in a jar every week and use it to pay the bill when its due.

Prepay meters have their place and are a handy thing for student houses or for LLs who want to rent rooms separately and keep the utilities in their name but they make no sense at all for a normal home.

The meter is what forces people to change their habits, remember when we all had top up mobiles and calls would be cut short to not use up your credit and switching to billpay you didn't care any more.

Electric Ireland actually penalise you for paying weekly if you are on Direct Debit (which you have to be to get a discount) Sticking it in a jar is easier said than done for households that are living week to week.

If it helps a normal household manage their finances better is it not worth it?

L1011

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

People don't maintain the same habits when on a bill though. Also a lot of people much prefer to break down the bill and pay weekly rather than bi-monthly.

If you can't maintain habits without the risk of getting cut off, you may need to work on will power.

You will pay more to pay less more frequently for practically anything. With basically zero deposit rates there is no reason anymore to do this unless you are broke.

If you're broke, life hits you by making you pay more for everything.

LollipopJimmy

L1011 wrote: »

If you can't maintain habits without the risk of getting cut off, you may need to work on will power.

You will pay more to pay less more frequently for practically anything. With basically zero deposit rates there is no reason anymore to do this unless you are broke.

If you're broke, life hits you by making you pay more for everything.

I get it. I really do, I'm years working for energy companies and it baffled me why people would have these prepay things. I once spoke to a girl at a focus group and she said if she had €30 in one hand and a bill in the other she'd go to liffey valley and buy stuff for the kids, whereas if she had €30 and the meter was low it'd be topped up. People in this country are still struggling keeping up with things, yes unemployment is decreasing but pay is far from high and if these things help people keep a few quid more in their pocket then more power to them

riclad

For people on low income its easier to get a prepay card.than be worried will
i get a large bill in 2 months time, and you can buy ten euros credit every week ,and put it in the meter .
for people on an average wage i see no pint in getting a prepay meter,
it may be handy for a landlord to have a meter installed too.

LollipopJimmy

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The meter is what forces people to change their habits, remember when we all had top up mobiles and calls would be cut short to not use up your credit and switching to billpay you didn't care any more.

Most bill pay contracts are unlimited though so it's not a great comparison. Its probably 10 years since I had a limited number of minutes on my bill pay phone but I was no less observant of what it was costing me than with prepay and would cut calls short the same with both.

It's money management that's the issue being highlighted and I agree that there are people unable to exercise self control with money and they will spend the money on something else rather than the bill. The meters force them to act differently but they would be better served by learning to manage their money in general rather than using more expensive and inconvenient ways to force it.

If you can put 20euro in a meter you can put it in a jar same difference to the money gone from your pocket.

Conor03

your landlord has the right to have a new meter installed as he owns the house however unless specifically noted in your lease, you have the right to change electricity companies as you see fit. For prepaid meters, the standing charge is sometimes included in the unit rate which appears to be what is happening in your case. I would not allow you LL install a coin box as this is not something the electricity companies do. you mentioned a digital meter, this may be the new smart meter that will eventually be in all household which allows the companies to have a real time account of the units being consumed.