Ulster V Munster - Match Thread- 7.05pm - BBCNI/NI

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 11:31am

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

The fact remains that Munster, like Ulster, looked better with less possession. I wouldn't look to last week as some sort of norm. It wasn't. And if the team look worse with the ball than without it that's an issue that needs fixing.

I know you don't like people being "mean" about Munster rugby, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't change anything.

So last week wasn't the norm, but this week was? There's some lack of logic to your meanderings and it's still patently incorrect

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

Felix Jones is God · 29-10-2016 11:34am

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would have thought based on every game Munster have played for the last few years that last week was the outlier and not last night? It shows how capable they are but don't pretend that last week was somehow munsters level. They've been better defensively than with the ball for years now

That's being disingenuous
I would suspect that having a half back partnership that works would be a major difference this season. Plus some fine backs coming through, we'll be there, or there abouts in the Pro12 at the seasons end, definitely much more to look forward to than at lease w of the other provinces from what I've seen the last 6 weeks

Felix Jones is God · 29-10-2016 11:36am

molloyjh wrote: »

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

It's your opinion, nothing more
And I asked a question, try to keep up please

Bridge93 · 29-10-2016 11:42am

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

That's being disingenuous
I would suspect that having a half back partnership that works would be a major difference this season. Plus some fine backs coming through, we'll be there, or there abouts in the Pro12 at the seasons end, definitely much more to look forward to than at lease w of the other provinces from what I've seen the last 6 weeks

But this is forward thinking. I wouldn't disagree with any of it. But it doesn't make last week the norm until it's a regular occurrence. How Munster played last night was far more typical of what they've been doing for a while.

mfceiling · 29-10-2016 12:11pm

Didn't watch it (stupid wedding anniversary dinner). Looks like it'll free up another bit of space on the box as I delete it when I get home.

Reading awec's posts it looks like Doak and Clarke still need to go. Reading bilston's posts it seems Tommy Bowe played poorly....not surprised as I thought he was brutal a couple of weeks ago.

Any idea of Coetzee miraculously being better in the next week!!

awec · 29-10-2016 12:12pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Didn't watch it (stupid wedding anniversary dinner). Looks like it'll free up another bit of space on the box as I delete it when I get home.

Reading awec's posts it looks like Doak and Clarke still need to go. Reading bilston's posts it seems Tommy Bowe played poorly....not surprised as I thought he was brutal a couple of weeks ago.

Any idea of Coetzee miraculously being better in the next week!!

Coetzee interviewed at half time, won't be fit til February.

mfceiling · 29-10-2016 12:20pm

awec wrote: »

Coetzee interviewed at half time, won't be fit til February.

Jesus that is bad news. Pack seems to get worse every year. A few years ago we had a younger Best, Afoa, Ferris and Muller. Now look at what we have.

Oh and Lewis Stevenson!!

awec · 29-10-2016 12:21pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Jesus that is bad news. Pack seems to get worse every year. A few years ago we had a younger Best, Afoa, Ferris and Muller. Now look at what we have.

Oh and Lewis Stevenson!!

Definitely getting worse. We're going backwards.

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 12:26pm

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

It's your opinion, nothing more
And I asked a question, try to keep up please

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

Felix Jones is God · 29-10-2016 12:43pm

molloyjh wrote: »

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

That would be a fact in quite a high percentage of games thruout rugby, even last week in the AB v Aus game the Aussies had over 60% possession in the first half ...worked out well for them didn't it

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 12:54pm

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

That would be a fact in quite a high percentage of games thruout rugby, even last week in the AB v Aus game the Aussies had over 60% possession in the first half ...worked out well for them didn't it

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

EDIT: Also, the issue here is what Munster were doing with the ball when they had it. Like Australia they didn't do great with the ball when they had it. It was a problem for Australia, as you rightly pointed out, ergo it was a problem for Munster by your very own logic. Why are you getting upset by me saying it?

thomond2006 · 29-10-2016 12:58pm

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I think for now we can happy enough with good results. It's no use being in peak form in October. Equally that was a result earned by a largely second string lineup with little to no experience on the bench that won't play together in a life or death game. We don't need this side to look the part, just to keep results ticking over.

Felix Jones is God · 29-10-2016 12:58pm

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I don't take it to heart. But to say a team doesn't score more because they have more possession is just a little silly even by the "logic" you're trying to apply

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 1:00pm

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I don't take it to heart. But to say a team doesn't score more because they have more possession is just a little silly even by the "logic" you're trying to apply

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 1:01pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I think for now we can happy enough with good results. It's no use being in peak form in October. Equally that was a result earned by a largely second string lineup with little to no experience on the bench that won't play together in a life or death game. We don't need this side to look the part, just to keep results ticking over.

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

Felix Jones is God · 29-10-2016 1:07pm

molloyjh wrote: »

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

It is bizarre if you believe that it is some kind of anomaly....it patently isn't....many teams win with less possession...it's a complete non issue to be truthful.

thomond2006 · 29-10-2016 1:09pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

During international windows, not life or death games that can make or break a season.

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 1:18pm

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

It is bizarre if you believe that it is some kind of anomaly....it patently isn't....many teams win with less possession...it's a complete non issue to be truthful.

There is a HUGE difference between winning with a minority of possession because you use the possession you have well (like NZ) and making a mess of huge amount of possession and scraping a win against a team as bad with the ball the way Munster did last night. You can close your eyes to it all you want but they are not the same thing at all.

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 1:19pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

During international windows, not life or death games that can make or break a season.

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

shootermacg · 29-10-2016 1:26pm

I don't think Keats will be allowed take any kicks in future. 0% return rate isn't even bad, its beyond that.

The mistakes are fixable. We camped their 22 for hugh stretches of the game punching through easily enough. If we'd not have made the stupid mistakes, it might have been a hammering for Ulster.

Jaco Taute seems to be the best bit of business Munster have done since CJ. Absolute beast, is actually murdering people legally in the tackle and the work rate is right up there.

Second rows put in a immense shift as did the back rows. Williams was solid. Killer was huge for us and his work in the scrum has also come along. I would say he's may currently the best Irish front row when it comes to carrying.

thomond2006 · 29-10-2016 1:29pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

I'm not. But they're not life or death. I don't think it's worth being too fussed about that side's performance.

molloyjh · 29-10-2016 1:35pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

I'm not. But they're not life or death. I don't think it's worth being too fussed about that side's performance.

Ah no, it wasn't a disaster or anything. And as you said at this stage of the competition it was a great result. By the same token I'm just saying that it shouldn't be ignored either. And I'm sure it won't be.

thomond2006 · 29-10-2016 1:36pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah no, it wasn't a disaster or anything. And as you said at this stage of the competition it was a great result. By the same token I'm just saying that it shouldn't be ignored either. And I'm sure it won't be.

Too fussed from a supporter's perspective I should have said.

irishbucsfan · 29-10-2016 1:43pm

I think Ulster fans are getting to this stage now

Adbrowne · 29-10-2016 1:44pm

Owens – “As he went to make the tackle, you slipped as well okay. And his arms were coming around to make the tackle, do you agree?”

O’Mahony – “Fair enough.”

Owens: “Good man. That’s a first!”

29-10-2016 1:57pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

Leinster had less possession but won comfortably against Munster 3 weeks ago.