Luas Crash

gahsux

Yet another Red line Luas crash::mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-reported-injured-as-tour-bus-crashes-into-luas-in-smithfield-761494.html

Why are motor vehicles still allowed on these 'lane ways' that intersect and interfere with the passage of one of the major modes of public transport in the city?

Jamie2k9

gahsux wrote: »

Yet another Red line Luas crash::mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-reported-injured-as-tour-bus-crashes-into-luas-in-smithfield-761494.html

Why are motor vehicles still allowed on these 'lane ways' that intersect and interfere with the passage of one of the major modes of public transport in the city?

You should be asking why are drivers not able to stop where the red light is located and not past the red light in a yellow box.

Lots more to come with BXD I suspect!

Banjoxed

gahsux wrote: »

Yet another Red line Luas crash::mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-reported-injured-as-tour-bus-crashes-into-luas-in-smithfield-761494.html

Why are motor vehicles still allowed on these 'lane ways' that intersect and interfere with the passage of one of the major modes of public transport in the city?

While studiously avoiding comment on the case in hand, I wonder will some/many drivers in Ireland be able to stop driving like d*cks? That would solve problems but won't happen.

MarkR

gahsux wrote: »

Yet another Red line Luas crash::mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-reported-injured-as-tour-bus-crashes-into-luas-in-smithfield-761494.html

Why are motor vehicles still allowed on these 'lane ways' that intersect and interfere with the passage of one of the major modes of public transport in the city?

Looks like the bus t-boned the luas. Bus seems to be on a normal road though, what do you mean by "lane ways"?

sullivlo

Did he just forget to stop?! Like that's half way down the Luas. He had to have seen it surely.

Patser

gahsux wrote: »

Yet another Red line Luas crash::mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-reported-injured-as-tour-bus-crashes-into-luas-in-smithfield-761494.html

Why are motor vehicles still allowed on these 'lane ways' that intersect and interfere with the passage of one of the major modes of public transport in the city?

RTE have nice photos of it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1028/827554-luas-tourist-bus-crash-dublin/

As for using that Laneway, it's into Smithfield, where the Old Jameson Distillery is so fairly legitimate for a tour bus to go in. Unless you want Open Top Tour buses to not be allowed go by Trinity College Gate, GPO, Jameson distillery, down to Phoenix Park or Kilmainham, as they all involve crossing, or will involve crossing when BXD finishes, luas lines.

mrcheez

Problem with the brakes possibly?

Tabnabs

Patser wrote: »

RTE have nice photos of it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1028/827554-luas-tourist-bus-crash-dublin/

As for using that Laneway, it's into Smithfield, where the Old Jameson Distillery is so fairly legitimate for a tour bus to go in. Unless you want Open Top Tour buses to not be allowed go by Trinity College Gate, GPO, Jameson distillery, down to Phoenix Park or Kilmainham, as they all involve crossing, or will involve crossing when BXD finishes, luas lines.

Except the distillery is closed until 2017. Seems pointless to be routing there now.

https://www.jamesonwhiskey.com/ie/visit-us/oldjamesondistillery

Patser

sullivlo wrote: »

Did he just forget to stop?! Like that's half way down the Luas. He had to have seen it surely.

Actually pretty close to front of Luas (just out of left of photo). Wonder did he stuck his nose out a bit too much, so that tapered front of luas made it by but wider body hit.

Terrlock

Looking at the photo's I'd suspect either the Bus driver had some sort of medical issue and lost control of the bus or there was some sort of mechanical failure on the bus and it failed to stop.

Captain Chaos

Patser wrote: »

Actually pretty close to front of Luas (just out of left of photo). Wonder did he stuck his nose out a bit too much, so that tapered front of luas made it by but wider body hit.

He got the second section, just out of frame is the front main module which as you can see from the rear is fairly long compared to the mid sections.. The Red Line trams are 5 module units.

cee_jay

The Luas was heading towards Tallaght according to RTE, so more towards the back so the driver would have seen the majority of it go by him?

EDIT: Nevermind - realise I was looking at it from the wrong angle

Patser

Tabnabs wrote: »

Except the distillery is closed until 2017. Seems pointless to be routing there now.

https://www.jamesonwhiskey.com/ie/visit-us/oldjamesondistillery

Didn't realise that....

Have they to stick to licenced routes? Maybe there's still demand to see/photograph the distillery?

mrcheez

Looks pretty half-way to me so plenty of time to see the Luas

Patser

Captain Chaos wrote: »

He got the second section, just out of frame is the front main module which as you can see from the rear is fairly long compared to the mid sections.. The Red Line trams are 5 module units.

Was just on way in to say you're right and post the picture above by Cheez

mrcheez

Patser wrote: »

Was just on way in to say you're right and post the picture above by Cheez

That's "Mr" to you :P

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

He got the second section, just out of frame is the front main module which as you can see from the rear is fairly long compared to the mid sections.. The Red Line trams are 5 module units.

He clipped drivers cab first and scrapped all along until the Luas came to a stop.

gahsux

MarkR wrote: »

Looks like the bus t-boned the luas. Bus seems to be on a normal road though, what do you mean by "lane ways"?

I use the Red line on an almost daily basis and it frequently grates on my nerves at the time lost while waiting at traffic lights both minor and major.
This is in fact a lane - 'Lincoln lane' continuing north onto Bow street. Both of which should have long since been pedestrianised.

I believe the Luas as a major mode of transport should have utmost priority through this section of the city. In short; the road traffic light respond to what the Luas is doing not vice-versa.

I can't recall how many passengers a current (extended) full Luas now carries. I seem to recall that the previous smaller versions carried 256 people. I did read some time ago that a full double-decker bus carrying 80 people was equated to 1.5 miles of car traffic. I have not been able to find the source of this statement but if it is remotely accurate, should be forefront in planner's mind when they allow motor traffic from a lane to intersect with a tram line.

MarkR

Bus was on a pedestrian street?

seamus

Empty tour bus, probably anxious to make his way back to the depot or to his pick-up point.

Not implying anything...

{edit: Though obviously the tour bus would have been emptied after the crash. D'oh}

filbert the fox

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He clipped drivers cab first and scrapped all along until the Luas came to a stop.

HE?
how does one know it was a he?

The luas is the wrong colour. Everything is grey today with the cloud cover.

Didn't Man U get rid of grey shirts complaining that they couldn't pick out their players?

Dubs colours I say!

Captain Chaos

That's why they added the yellow stripes to the trams about 10 years ago.

filbert the fox

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's why they added the yellow stripes to the trams about 10 years ago.

That obviously worked then...:cool:

CarrickMcJoe

Firemen must have been so disappointed when they didn't need their massive tools to take the roof off the bus...

ebbsy

seamus wrote: »

Empty tour bus, probably anxious to make his way back to the depot or to his pick-up point.

Not implying anything...

{edit: Though obviously the tour bus would have been emptied after the crash. D'oh}

Well they did get to see the Luas.

Up close.

gahsux

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-crash-several-injuries-and-investigation-begins-after-tour-bus-collides-with-tram-in-city-centre-35169617.html

"There was a big loud bang and then you could see all the shattered glass. A few of the passengers had dropped to the floor of the tram. The other thing I noticed was the druggies trying to get into the situation and rob the injured," he said.

Mortpourvelo

It's Smithfield - that sounds about right.

ED E

Gotta love the northside.

The Talking Bread

ED E wrote: »

Gotta love the northside.

I amn't biting or offended. Indeed not even from Dublin! But what does this mean............ The crash ratio is higher on the whole of the red line but there are a lot of mitigating factors for that

Sunny Dayz

So Luas and Dublin Bus drivers have both been striking and awarded pay rises - and then theyy crash! Well those were payrises well spent!


Teachers and Gardaí - be careful on the roads!

Jamie2k9

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

So Luas and Dublin Bus drivers have both been striking and awarded pay rises - and then theyy crash! Well those were payrises well spent!


Teachers and Garda - be careful on the roads!

Was not DB and a Luas driver cant get out of the way.

Jamie2k9

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

So Luas and Dublin Bus drivers have both been striking and awarded pay rises - and then theyy crash! Well those were payrises well spent!


Teachers and Garda - be careful on the roads!

Was not DB and a Luas driver cant get out of the way.

The Talking Bread

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Was not DB and a Luas driver cant get out of the way.

Don't let facts get in the way of a stup1d comment!

Tickityboo

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

So Luas and Dublin Bus drivers have both been striking and awarded pay rises - and then theyy crash! Well those were payrises well spent!


Teachers and Gardaí - be careful on the roads!

It wasn't a Dublin Bus!!

Jamie2k9

filbert the fox wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He clipped drivers cab first and scrapped all along until the Luas came to a stop.

HE?
how does one know it was a he?

The luas is the wrong colour. Everything is grey today with the cloud cover.

Didn't Man U get rid of grey shirts complaining that they couldn't pick out their players?

Dubs colours I say!

He based on probability. As for colour you will be telling me next the bright Green, Orange and Red lights couldn't been seen because it was dark.

Should we also ban silver cars.

Two possible causes here human error on one side or mechanical on one side.

In 12 years I recall only 1 accident where Luas were at fault and a bright yellow/blue bus with the sun shining didn't stop it so that puts colour to bed.

Sunny Dayz

Tickityboo wrote: »

It wasn't a Dublin Bus!!

Ah I thought it was one of the tour buses that Dublin Bus have. I didn't actually know there were other tour bus operators in Dublin. Colours are very similar though.

ED E

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I amn't biting or offended. Indeed not even from Dublin! But what does this mean............ The crash ratio is higher on the whole of the red line but there are a lot of mitigating factors for that

Read above RE junkies.

mrcheez

ED E wrote: »

Gotta love the north-west side inner city.

FYP

The Talking Bread

ED E wrote: »

Read above RE junkies.

Where does it say anything about junkies? I know the Red Line journey can be a very unglamorous experience often but I just don't get why that is being brought up on this thread!!

The Talking Bread

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He based on probability. As for colour you will be telling me next the bright Green, Orange and Red lights couldn't been seen because it was dark.

Should we also ban silver cars.

Two possible causes here human error on one side or mechanical on one side.

In 12 years I recall only 1 accident where Luas were at fault and a bright yellow/blue bus with the sun shining didn't stop it so that puts colour to bed.

In fairness there is an argument as for the correlation of vehicle colour and accident. And it mainly comes into play in the daytime hours . Obviously, banning them is just a stupid response to someone highlighting this correlation but it is worth considering that, especially in daytime hours colour can become a factor, albeit a very small, but nonetheless a factor within itself.

Some studies on same:

https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/216475/muarc263.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11054856_Does_Vehicle_Color_Influence_the_Risk_of_Being_Passively_Involved_in_a_Collision

The current colour is, in itself, not worth changing at this stage, of course and is obviously on the smaller issues to be considered safety wise for Transdev and The TII and is a lot more cost efficient in manufacturing and maintenance sense, but it is worthy of discussion and not sarcastic responses..

REM76

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He based on probability. As for colour you will be telling me next the bright Green, Orange and Red lights couldn't been seen because it was dark.

Should we also ban silver cars.

Two possible causes here human error on one side or mechanical on one side.

In 12 years I recall only 1 accident where Luas were at fault and a bright yellow/blue bus with the sun shining didn't stop it so that puts colour to bed.

It was pretty stupid to paint the Luas grey. If they were a bright primary colour, these accidents would happen less. That's just basic cop on.

Voipjunkie

Looking at the pictures it is not a t bone the bus over ran the light and the luas clipped it last it passed , if it was brakes on the bus or a medical issue there would be a lot more damage if it was moving forward as it contacted the luas.
My guess is the bus was stationary when it was hit, but still the bus drivers fault.
Seen a van do it before luas took the bumper off as it passed.

The Talking Bread

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Looking at the pictures it is not a t bone the bus over ran the light and the luas clipped it last it passed , if it was brakes on the bus or a medical issue there would be a lot more damage if it was moving forward as it contacted the luas.
My guess is the bus was stationary when it was hit, but still the bus drivers fault.
Seen a van do it before luas took the bumper off as it passed.

No way it was stationary. if it was the front side part of the luas would also be damaged /scraped/dented. IT hit the centre part at a relatively small but significant speed enough to cause indented damage on one area. The luas would have a strong structure. IT would take moving impact to cause the damage that those photos suggest.

The Talking Bread

I imagine he came around what is a 45 degree angled turn. Just saw the Luas at that moment and couldn't brake in time enough to avoid the impact. May have been distracted also by a wayward pedestrian.

WE will find out in due course I imagine. Could have been a lot worse if it was during rush hour in evening. Your literally can't stand on that luas circa 5/6pm. especially on a bank holiday Friday rush home.
People are squashed against the door. any noteworthy impact and there would be a lot of injuries I'd imagine, some serious head collisions even.

ahlookit

The Talking Bread wrote: »

No way it was stationary. if it was the front side part of the luas would also be damaged /scraped/dented. IT hit the centre part at a relatively small but significant speed enough to cause indented damage on one area. The luas would have a strong structure. IT would take moving impact to cause the damage that those photos suggest.

If you look at the pics here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-crash-several-injuries-and-investigation-begins-after-tour-bus-collides-with-tram-in-city-centre-35169617.html

you can see the scrapes all along the luas from the front to centre ... so, as voipjunkie suggested, it looks like luas scraped along bus, rather than bus impacting the middle of luas.

The Talking Bread

ahlookit wrote: »

If you look at the pics here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-crash-several-injuries-and-investigation-begins-after-tour-bus-collides-with-tram-in-city-centre-35169617.html

you can see the scrapes all along the luas from the front to centre ... so, as voipjunkie suggested, it looks like luas scraped along bus, rather than bus impacting the middle of luas.

Actually, my apologies. It still has to have been moving somewhat, no?

No way would it have gotten that far over the stop line being stationary. Especially how slow the Luas approaches a stop which was literally metres away

ahlookit

yeah, the bus driver could have been nosing out of the sidestreet.

As you said, lucky it didnt happen around rush hour or it could have been worse.

The Talking Bread

Here is someone who commented on Journal.ie who was on the Luas at the time: Their identity is disclosed so it seems legit eyewitness:

I was on the luas at the time. And yes, it did. The luas couldn’t stop so the bus ended up in the middle of the luas (at my seat). The bus shattered every window along the front of the luas until it stopped.......

I heard a shout from the front, then the luas started shaking like it was going to derail, then the emergency brakes kicked in. So as far as I know the bus hit us, because the driver would have hit the brakes before the collision if the bus was stopped on the track.......

Del.Monte

Hope this is not a sign of things to come when the Green Line is extended with a lot more on-street running.

stevek93

I was on the Luas when it happened.

I have to say it was handled very poorly, no one asked where passengers OK. More annoyingly the security came over to everyone shouting to leave the area very intimidating.

I have made a complaint to Luas.

lawred2

Trains and traffic don't mix. Whudda thunk it.