Limerick Northern Distributor Road

marno21

This scheme is important to the city of Limerick, and provides connectivity along the Northern suburbs, the southern ones are linked by the M7/N18/R509 Childers Road. The eventual plan is for the road to go from Coonagh and join up with the R445/old N7 near UL/Annacotty.

https://www.limerick.ie/council/limerick-northern-distributor-road > Scheme website.

The current phase going through the stages from Coonagh to Knocklisheen

Deputy Shane Ross confirmed today that approval has been given to Limerick City/County Council to issue a tender for ground investigation along the route

Cookiemunster

According to the CIF the plan is to tender advanced groundworks rather than ground investigation in Q3.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiZt-PorvrOAhUBDCwKHUvYAAMQFghFMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcif.ie%2Fimages%2Fpdfs%2FInfrastructure-Projects.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFBrLi6VdhAYrtR-V-vc-INcmc8Wg

€45m - Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road
30th March 2016: It is understood that tenders for the advanced groundworks
will be sought in Q3 2016 for the Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road.
Tenders for the main contract of this project will be sought in Q4 2016.
The scheme will involve; 2.6km of new urban dual carriageway road. 0.6km of
new urban single carriageway road. 1.8km of major improvements to an existing
urban single carriageway road. 1.0km of minor improvements to existing rural
single carriageway roads. Embankment on soft ground requiring specialist
earthworks design and construction techniques. 2 road over railway bridges. 4
new roundabouts and modifications to 2 existing roundabouts. 2 Traffic Signal
Junctions. Surface water sewers, foul sewers, watermains and utility service
ducting, landscaping, boundaries.
Work is expected to commence in Q3 2016 and take in the region of 30 months
to complete.

Cookiemunster

Also site clearance was also reported on the Limerick forum a few months back.

minnow

Great news for those who live/work in Limerick region. Would I be right in saying that this new road would become the quickest way to bypass Limerick if I was traveling from Ennis to Dublin? At least distance wise it would be significantly shorter than following the M18/M7 route all around the south & easy of city.

Following on from that, it is likely to remove traffic from the Limerick tunnel. If I recall correctly, the government/NRA is already paying the developer annually because of lower than expected traffic flows. So the new road may increase that payment...

Cookiemunster

The only section that has the go ahead is Phase 1 from Coonagh to Knockalisheen. This will hopefully be opened sometime in 2019.
Phase 2 isn't likely to go ahead any time soon. The original route selection has been shot down by Limerick councillors and Clare councillors want it abandoned as well.

Cookiemunster

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/223579/limerick-northside-s-40m-gateway-to-economic-investment-begins.html

Important bits from the above article when the political BS has been removed.

The tendering process for the first stage of the major €40m Coonagh to Knockalisheen Road, which forms part of Coonagh-Lisnagry Northern Distributor Road, is likely to be complete by this Christmas.
A spokesperson for Limerick City and County Council said that it is likely that contractors will be on site by early 2017.


It is understood that enabling works have been undertaken over the past number of weeks to prepare the site for construction.

Carawaystick

minnow wrote: »

Great news for those who live/work in Limerick region. Would I be right in saying that this new road would become the quickest way to bypass Limerick if I was traveling from Ennis to Dublin? At least distance wise it would be significantly shorter than following the M18/M7 route all around the south & easy of city.

Probably not, if it's a distributor road. It'll have a significantly lower avg speed and probably roundabouts, traffic lights and pedestrian crossings

marno21

Tender went out for advance works along the route today: https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/rwlentrance_s.asp?PID=105628&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1

Irish_rat

Is there access to UL from this? Would be ideal to reduce the traffic hell around Castletroy at peak times.

Cookiemunster

Irish_rat wrote: »

Is there access to UL from this? Would be ideal to reduce the traffic hell around Castletroy at peak times.

This section only goes from the Coonagh roundabout to the Knockalisheen Rd.

pigtown

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/230893/northern-distributor-road-in-limerick-could-link-to-m7.html
New proposal for this road. I can't visualise the route they're describing though, if anyone can figure it out and explain like I'm five that'd be great.

Tockman

Looks like Conn Murray is at it again, having Johnson & Johnson in behind-closed door meeting this week. After strangely getting the wind turbine through for them, now this. Disappointing it wasn't open to residents in area.

Looks Like there talking about connecting it to the r445 which is the old Dublin road above Lisnagry, with a spur from that road connecting to National technology park with bridge over Mulcair River.

http://www.clarecoco.ie/roads-and-transport/schemes-and-projects/limerick-northern-distributor-road/limerick-northern-distributor-road-map-of-route-options-9809.pdf

In above route selections I think it's just the red route pushed farther up with the E.1 to D.1 Link included.

mart 23

Has the City manager the power to approve the building of this road without the
approval of the councillors.?

pigtown

No he doesn't

topper75

Anyone know where phase 1 (Coonagh-Knocklisheen) is at now?

Seems an awful long time ago since it was first talked about as part of the regeneration.

I naively thought back then that it would certainly be built and open by 2017. :-)

I know the land isn't the greatest there but it's only a few km of road.

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

Anyone know where phase 1 (Coonagh-Knocklisheen) is at now?

Seems an awful long time ago since it was first talked about as part of the regeneration.

I naively thought back then that it would certainly be built and open by 2017. :-)

I know the land isn't the greatest there but it's only a few km of road.

See the link in post #8. Tenders don't close until Jan 31st.

Limerick74

Proposed Variation to Limerick County Development Plan for LNDR back for consultation https://www.limerick.ie/council/county-development-plan

marno21

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/247532/an-taisce-limerick-object-to-150m-orbital-route.html

An Taisce have formally objected to the road plan.

Unprecedented behaviour by them.

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/247532/an-taisce-limerick-object-to-150m-orbital-route.html

An Taisce have formally objected to the road plan.

Unprecedented behaviour by them.

It seems that they're against anything that's modern - yes, we must preserve our heritage and our environment, but we also have to live in the 21st century!

Tefral

Middle Man wrote: »

It seems that they're against anything that's modern - yes, we must preserve our heritage and our environment, but we also have to live in the 21st century!

They have also cited the tunnel as an example of now it hasn't alleviated traffic in the city.

I guarantee if you lift the tolls off that tunnel for one week that would disprove that straight away!

marno21

Tefral wrote: »

They have also cited the tunnel as an example of now it hasn't alleviated traffic in the city.

I guarantee if you lift the tolls off that tunnel for one week that would disprove that straight away!

I'd love to see what the result would be

I reckon there would be much more people using the tunnel even if it's more indirect for them, they're just not willing to pay the toll at the minute. The tunnel always feels quieter than the N18 on both sides even wen the bridges are jammed

Tefral

marno21 wrote: »

I'd love to see what the result would be

I reckon there would be much more people using the tunnel even if it's more indirect for them, they're just not willing to pay the toll at the minute. The tunnel always feels quieter than the N18 on both sides even wen the bridges are jammed

I've often crawled down the condell road because i don't want to pay the toll in my work van.

Limerick74

Limerick Councillors approve variation for Distributor Road
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/252408/limerick-councillors-give-overwhelming-backing-to-northern-distributor-road.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Werido

An Tsisce are such fools. What do they want, us to live in dark ages?

D Trent

Werido wrote: »

An Tsisce are such fools. What do they want, us to live in dark ages?

I suppose they have to kinda, justify their existence.






Their sad, little existence

topper75

Tefral wrote: »

I've often crawled down the condell road because i don't want to pay the toll in my work van.

I thought they ought to have gone with a Ryanair model on that tunnel.

Say 50c. Then the resulting higher use (could be a factor of anywhere between 5 and 10 times the number of cars) would greatly offset the lower toll.
Most importantly, the scheme would actually then realise its objective fully in terms or relieving pressure on the city.

Would you pay 50c to avoid the Condell/Dock road queuing Tefral?:P

mastershake

Looks as though Phase 1 is commencing or at least preparatory works have started[font=Montserrat, sans-serif]. [/font]Phase 1 (Advanced Works Contract) of the Coonagh to Knockalisheen Distributor Road scheme will involve the following:

Construction of approximately 300 metres of urban dual carriageway from Coonagh Roundabout to the rear of Coonagh Cross Shopping Centre, including new footways, cycleways and verges

Embankment construction works for a further 650 metres of future dual carriageway routing from the rear of Coonagh Cross SC towards the Old Cratloe Road

Embankment construction on soft ground requiring excavation of peat, the installation of specialist prefabricated vertical drains and surcharging

Provision of pedestrian/ cyclist crossing facilities at Coonagh Roundabout and on the Ennis Road

Provision of upgraded route lighting, traffic signs and road marking

Diversion of various utilities including the provision of a foul drainage network on the Ennis Road inbound from Coonagh Roundabout

Fencing of the entire scheme

https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/contracts-signed-coonagh-knockalisheen-road-phase-one

Cookiemunster

Work actually started a few months ago.

mastershake

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Work actually started a few months ago.

Any idea when work for the remaining sections to Knockalisheen Road will take place? This will probably be dependent on securing funding I'm sure which i don't believe has happened yet. Hope this is soon though as the project is very beneficial to Moyross and Ballynanty and will improve access to these communities.

Cookiemunster

mastershake wrote: »

Any idea when work for the remaining sections to Knockalisheen Road will take place? This will probably be dependent on securing funding I'm sure which i don't believe has happened yet. Hope this is soon though as the project is very beneficial to Moyross and Ballynanty and will improve access to these communities.

I found this online
The Plans have been granted and contracts have now been awarded for work to commence in August 2017 on the Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road, Phase 1, worth €4M. The entire construction will be broken into 3 phases and should take in the region of 30 months to fully complete.
https://www.acrowrecruitment.com/news/contracts-awarded-eur45m-coonagh-knockalisheen-distributor-road-co-limerick/

mastershake

I thought I would bump this thread seeing as the Coonagh Roundabout to the Knockalisheen Rd section is now out to tender for construction.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/228129

Reminder of the route below.

https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2017-05/sl-101_scheme_layout_2.pdf

tigerboon

mastershake wrote: »

I thought I would bump this thread seeing as the Coonagh Roundabout to the Knockalisheen Rd section is now out to tender for construction.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/228129

Reminder of the route below.

https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2017-05/sl-101_scheme_layout_2.pdf

Tenders in a few weeks ago.

mastershake

Tenders in a few weeks ago.

Have they announced who has been awarded it yet?

mastershake

Update:
https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2021/0126/1192198-moyross-transport/

Road Scheme:
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2017-05/sl-101_scheme_layout_2.pdf

There seems to be at an impasse with Minister for Transport Eamonn Ryan not releasing funding for the next phase. I consider this road infrastructure to be an important link for accessibility to/from the Moyross area to the rest of the city. It is also important in that it should act as the city limit/boundary and prevent more sprawl. A green belt should be enforced between this new road and the Clare/Limerick county border, however I don't know if this is Limerick Councils mid/long term intention or if their goal is simply to open more land for housing developments.

I predict the latter, and so this is why the Greens are in opposition to the road as opposed to the talk of upgrading the rail line which is as everyone knows not going to happen due to the low housing density in the area and the massive costs.

marno21

The Green Party are likely going to get torn apart at the next election for once again getting nothing useful done as ideology trumps practicality yet again. This is Limerick we are dealing with, not Tokyo.

The Limerick Northern Distributor Road is a key element of LSMATS for public transport, removing traffic from the city centre and providing better access between northern suburbs, and the University and other employment centres.

Pete_Cavan

This next phase of the road seems perfectly logical, extending right around the city to the M7 not so much.

I assume the longer term plan is to allow for the redevelopment of Moyross to higher density and provide a train station there?

BelfastVanMan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This next phase of the road seems perfectly logical, extending right around the city to the M7 not so much.

I assume the longer term plan is to allow for the redevelopment of Moyross to higher density and provide a train station there?

At the very least, it gives local traffic another way from one side of the city to the other, without having to either go through the middle of the city centre, or without having to pay the N18 tunnel toll.

hans aus dtschl

I honestly don't understand the Green's hard-on for rail.
"Halt all roads, cycleways etc, for rail".
It's not the highest priority transport mode, so why put it above all others?
Even then, if they were pumping money into a high density Moyross with a new station, surely you still need a proper distributor road, rather than bringing traffic through a maze of estates.

As everyone else is saying: surely this phase makes sense at least?

TheWonderLlama

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

At the very least, it gives local traffic another way from one side of the city to the other, without having to either go through the middle of the city centre, or without having to pay the N18 tunnel toll.

the toll tunnel might be one of the reasons why this project has stalled. The council is having to pay the operator even when there's very little traffic going through it, so the more traffic they can push through, the less it costs them. they have negative incentive to create alternative routes.

Cookiemunster

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

the toll tunnel might be one of the reasons why this project has stalled. The council is having to pay the operator even when there's very little traffic going through it, so the more traffic they can push through, the less it costs them. they have negative incentive to create alternative routes.

The council aren't paying the operator a penny. TII run the national network and they pay the tunnel operator.

TheWonderLlama

fair enough, i honestly thought it was the council.

KrisW1001

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I honestly don't understand the Green's hard-on for rail.
"Halt all roads, cycleways etc, for rail".
It's not the highest priority transport mode, so why put it above all others?
Even then, if they were pumping money into a high density Moyross with a new station, surely you still need a proper distributor road, rather than bringing traffic through a maze of estates.

As everyone else is saying: surely this phase makes sense at least?

I'd imagine precious few Green party members know what it's like to grow up somewhere like Moyross, and having to deal with the effects of bare-minium transporation infrastructure. (I grew up somewhere similar, but nowhere near as isolated from its city centre)

I'm a reluctant Green voter: I want better environmental policies, but I don't like the GP's persistent habit of making things more expensive for the already struggling while giving handouts to middle-class people (like me, I'll admit) who can well afford to pay more for it. This objection is typical of that: "More roads are bad" is only true if you live in an area with well-developed road infrastructure where people are choosing to drive instead of taking one of the more environmentally-friendly options that are available; it's definitely not true in places decades of underinvestment mean driving is the only option you have, and to add insult to injury, the road network forces you to take longer, more expensive journeys.

Roads and rail are not an either/or. Better roads make buses more attractive (by making journey times reliable), but I sometimes think the GP has too many people in it who'd never want to be seen on a bus...

hans aus dtschl

My problem is that I see their preference of train over road like preferring cake over bread. You kinda need both and both need to be planned as part of an overall network.

Having walked to/from a lot of the Limerick suburbs (Dooradoyle, Moylish, Kilmurry) a lot of times carrying bags, it always struck me as a tedious journey, through a seemingly endless "nothing" of cul-de-sacs, housing estates and one-off housing. I don't remember why the bus wasn't an option for me, but it was likely an issue of cost and schedule.
Cheaper bus, frequent bus, longer bus hours and bus priority would have been hugely helpful.

Gold-plated solutions like train are very welcome, but you can do a lot with bus, cycle and pedestrian. All are above the train in the heirarchy of needs and all require proper roads.

KrisW1001

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

My problem is that I see their preference of train over road like preferring cake over bread. You kinda need both and both need to be planned as part of an overall network.

That's actually a better summary of my objection. They push for cake, because bread isn't good enough for them, while ignoring that most people don't even have the bread.

If ever there was a group that let perfect become the enemy of good...

And, again, I say this as someone who regularly votes for them!

Having walked to/from a lot of the Limerick suburbs (Dooradoyle, Moylish, Kilmurry) a lot of times carrying bags, it always struck me as a tedious journey, through a seemingly endless "nothing" of cul-de-sacs, housing estates and one-off housing. I don't remember why the bus wasn't an option for me, but it was likely an issue of cost and schedule.
Cheaper bus, frequent bus, longer bus hours and bus priority would have been hugely helpful.

Looking at a map gives a good clue why this didn't happen: these 1970s estates are very poorly connected by design, often with only one or two ways in or out, and lots of branching into dead-ends. That mass of cul-de-sacs might be good at removing through traffic, but good public transport requires efficient through-routes. The design pattern they used seems to have originated in the United States, where car ownership is a given.

(I grew up in a similar place, but not as remote and physically isolated as the estates of North-West Limerick)

Gold-plated solutions like train are very welcome, but you can do a lot with bus, cycle and pedestrian. All are above the train in the heirarchy of needs and all require proper roads.

Yes. First keep the pedestrians away from the wheeled transport to encourage walking (at least we did that); next, keep the cyclists away from motorised transport to encourage cycling; then give buses priority over private cars to encourage use of public transport, and only then, if that hasn't fixed the transport problems, should you start looking at light rail. Heavy rail should only be on the radar if an existing light rail system becomes so wildly successful that it can't meet demand.

riddlinrussell

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

My problem is that I see their preference of train over road like preferring cake over bread. You kinda need both and both need to be planned as part of an overall network.

Having walked to/from a lot of the Limerick suburbs (Dooradoyle, Moylish, Kilmurry) a lot of times carrying bags, it always struck me as a tedious journey, through a seemingly endless "nothing" of cul-de-sacs, housing estates and one-off housing. I don't remember why the bus wasn't an option for me, but it was likely an issue of cost and schedule.
Cheaper bus, frequent bus, longer bus hours and bus priority would have been hugely helpful.

Gold-plated solutions like train are very welcome, but you can do a lot with bus, cycle and pedestrian. All are above the train in the heirarchy of needs and all require proper roads.

Current thinking is moving towards 'bus only' roads in certain places, obviously would want to couple with expansion of bus network/frequency and lower fares.

Red Silurian

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Current thinking is moving towards 'bus only' roads in certain places, obviously would want to couple with expansion of bus network/frequency and lower fares.

Bus only roads, unless you completely separate them from the regular road, simply won't work, too many drivers will see it as an alternate unpoliced route

Cookiemunster

So there's been a slight climbdown from the Greens. After a huge local backlash, they've said that the section from Coonagh to Moyross can be built, but the rest of the road from Moyross to the Knockalisheen Rd and the upgrade of the Knockalisheen Road (new footpaths and cycle lanes) is to be canned.

Of course this means that Moyross will become a rat run without the Knockalisheen Rd connection and that the Knockalisheen Rd won't get any footpaths or cycle lanes.

riddlinrussell

colmtheperson wrote: »

Bus only roads, unless you completely separate them from the regular road, simply won't work, too many drivers will see it as an alternate unpoliced route

Well yeah it would have to be coupled with ANPR and high fines/penalty points

hans aus dtschl

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Well yeah it would have to be coupled with ANPR and high fines/penalty points

Some places use retractable bollards too, but they're more cumbersome and expensive. ANPR would be ideal.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So there's been a slight climbdown from the Greens. After a huge local backlash, they've said that the section from Coonagh to Moyross can be built, but the rest of the road from Moyross to the Knockalisheen Rd and the upgrade of the Knockalisheen Road (new footpaths and cycle lanes) is to be canned.

Of course this means that Moyross will become a rat run without the Knockalisheen Rd connection and that the Knockalisheen Rd won't get any footpaths or cycle lanes.

I'd like to see the plans. As you describe it, it doesn't make sense to me. The bit they need most would be missing.

mastershake

I'd like to see the plans. As you describe it, it doesn't make sense to me. The bit they need most would be missing.

Coonagh to Knockalisheen Rd:
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2017-05/sl-101_scheme_layout_2.pdf

hans aus dtschl

mastershake wrote: »

Road Plan:
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/defaul...e_layout_2.pdf

Thanks for the effort but the link seems to have been garbled?