Is Airbnb affecting Dublin's Rental market?

likij

One man on liveline today claimed to be subletting 40 rooms. Surely can't be good. Articles available on IT and indo. I can't link as I'm a new user.

Del2005

The fact that there has been hardly any building for years, with zero social, and Dublin's economy is picking up is the cause of the rental increases, Airbnb is just a good excuse for the people who made the mess to blame.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

What would Stalin have done about this?

gaffer91

Good thread here

Del2005 wrote: »

The fact that there has been hardly any building for years, with zero social, and Dublin's economy is picking up is the cause of the rental increases, Airbnb is just a good excuse for the people who made the mess to blame.

Do you really think this kind of behaviour is having no impact whatsoever given how stretched the rental market already is?

foggy_lad

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

What would Stalin have done about this?

Through the front door of the courthouse and straight out the back door followed by a bullet in the back of the head

The_Valeyard

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

What would Stalin have done about this?

Ah now, that's pretty obvious. He would use his well known programming of :

'Greater Understanding & Learning Association Group'

The_Valeyard

foggy_lad wrote: »

Through the front door of the courthouse and straight out the back door followed by a bullet in the back of the head

To be fair, Stalin loved a great theatrical trial.

foggy_lad

The_Valeyard wrote: »

To be fair, Stalin loved a great theatrical trial.

Only because it showed the serfs that no matter how right they were or how much evidence they had of their guilt Innocence the state's prosecution would show them that they were wrong, Always, and the back door was always on the latch:D

mzungu

foggy_lad wrote: »

Only because it showed the serfs that no matter how right they were or how much evidence they had of their guilt the state's prosecution would show them that they were wrong, Always, and the back door was always on the latch:D

"The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to be shot." - Bertolt Brecht

bodhrandude

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

What would Stalin have done about this?

More interesting would be what would Shakin Stevens have done about this.

Del2005

gaffer91 wrote: »

Good thread here

Do you really think this kind of behaviour is having no impact whatsoever given how stretched the rental market already is?

It's having an effect, but not as much as the lack of construction of homes for the last few years and social housing for longer.

Duckworth_Luas

bodhrandude wrote: »

More interesting would be what would Shakin Stevens have done about this.

He mentioned something about being unable to mend the shingles, floor, hinges and window panes in his own house.

somesoldiers

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

He mentioned something about being unable to mend the shingles, floor, hinges and window panes in his own house.

Well it was old (ole)....

andekwarhola

It's pointless deflecting any criticism by simnply acknowledging bigger contributory factors to the rent crisis such as private and social house building. The fact is that Airbnb certainly isn't helping matters.

Plus if I bought an apartment beside what I presumed to be owner-occupied or long-term rental unit, I'd be severely displeased to learn that it was going to have a rapid turnover of essentially unvetted tourist tenants.

suicide_circus

We're so badly stretched that even if it's a few hundred properties taken out of the rental market in Dublin for airbnb purposes, it's having a negative impact on people who want to live and work here.

VinLieger

I agree we should make all innovative and disruptive new businesses illegal cus our government is too slow to adapt regulations for them. Only logical solution to be honest

Harvey Normal

andekwarhola wrote: »

It's pointless deflecting any criticism by simnply acknowledging bigger contributory factors to the rent crisis such as private and social house building. The fact is that Airbnb certainly isn't helping matters.

Plus if I bought an apartment beside what I presumed to be owner-occupied or long-term rental unit, I'd be severely displeased to learn that it was going to have a rapid turnover of essentially unvetted tourist tenants.

Absolutely. Management companies are banning this.

Harvey Normal

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree we should make all innovative and disruptive new businesses illegal cus our government is too slow to adapt regulations for them. Only logical solution to be honest

Not all. But the ones that are socially disruptive.

I wonder why the average AH poster is relaxed about this. Most living at home with mammy?

suicide_circus

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree we should make all innovative and disruptive new businesses illegal cus our government is too slow to adapt regulations for them. Only logical solution to be honest

strawman. The question was whether airbnb has an effect, not if it was the cause of the housing crisis. besides, if your property is residential, you would need planning permission to use it for business purposes, just because airbnb have gotten away with it up to now dosnt make it any less illegal.

Advbrd

suicide_circus wrote: »

strawman. The question was whether airbnb has an effect, not if I was the cause of the housing crisis. besides, if your property is residential, you would need planning permission to use it for business purposes, just because airbnb have gotten away with it up to now dosnt make it any less illegal.

You were the cause of the housing crisis, close thread.

suicide_circus

Fixed

jimmy blevins

The tech sector is pushing the casual and deregulated business model hard, it's not just taxi drivers who's livelihoods are at risk.

Dravokivich

likij wrote: »

One man on liveline today claimed to be subletting 40 rooms. Surely can't be good. Articles available on IT and indo. I can't link as I'm a new user.

Hard to say based on the actions of 1 guy subletting via AirBNB.

If it was landlords who removed their properties from the rental market, to use AirBNB, then that might be something to discuss.

andekwarhola

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree we should make all innovative and disruptive new businesses illegal cus our government is too slow to adapt regulations for them. Only logical solution to be honest

I'm all for new businesses and people making a few quid but you have to balance your right to make money with disrupting others if your home business may disrupt other owners.

And in terms of properties in managed developments, you are more than likely explicitly contravening the contractual agreement that you signed when you bought into the management company so it's very much the business of the other residents.

VinLieger

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Not all. But the ones that are socially disruptive.

LOL hilarious, so we make tinder illegal? What about uber? These both could be described as socially disruptive but in vastly different ways

VinLieger

andekwarhola wrote: »

I'm all for new businesses and people making a few quid but you have to balance your right to make money with disrupting others if your home business may disrupt other owners.

And in terms of properties in managed developments, you are more than likely explicitly contravening the contarctual agreement that you signed when you bought into the management company so it's very much the business of the other residents.

Well then its up to people to report such illegal behaviour but blaming the service that makes it possible instead of the people abusing the law by using said service is illogical

andekwarhola

VinLieger wrote: »

Well then its up to people to report such illegal behaviour but blaming the service that makes it possible instead of the people abusing the law by using said service is illogical

Disruption doesn't have to involve illegality. And the rapid turnover of tenants makes reporting issues on a individual basis meaningless. Somebody causes trouble and they're gone the next day.

And airbnb itself cannot be held accountable unless you have an authority like the management company or the law directly address it.

Like it or not, your right to make money doesn't trump the rights of owners around you. All you want is some valve like 'reporting incidents' to kick the can down the road so you can make a few quid.

In the case of managed companies, people willingly signed contracts that made them part of a management company but then start whinging when they're subject to the wishes of other residents. Tough. Just find another outlet for your entrepreneurial bent.

VinLieger

andekwarhola wrote: »

Disruption doesn't have to involve illegality. And the rapid turnover of tenants makes reporting issues meaningless. Somebody causes trouble and they're gone the next day.

Like it or not, your right to make money doesn't trump the rights of owners around you.

In the case of managed companies, people willingly signed contracts that made them part of a management company but then start whinging when they're subject to the wishes of other residents. Tough. Just find another outlet for your entrepreneurial bent.

Im saying report the owners of the properties if as you say they are breaking contracts they signed. Again blaming the service they are using instead of the people is illogical

I know very well what disruptive means in relation to new business ideas and tech. It usually means people who are set in their ways get bent out of shape when they are shown to be stupid for not actively innovating and instead of matching said innovation try to push for it to be banned.

andekwarhola

VinLieger wrote: »

Im saying report the owners of the properties if as you say they are breaking contracts they signed.

This is what's happened here, by the sounds of it.

A lot of managment companies have rules (again, nobody forces people to buy a property in the management company that has these rules) that rule out using your property - or communal areas such as outside or apartment hallways - for business purposes. One of the main ones, for example, would be running car repairs outside your property but you can see how it would extend to this as well.

Harvey Normal

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL hilarious, so we make tinder illegal? What about uber? These both could be described as socially disruptive but in vastly different ways

Tinder, no. Uber maybe.

You know the way b&bs are regulated? That. B&Bs started by people renting out a room and throwing in a breakfast (their property right?) and now is totally regulated.

That's the way it works. And it wasn't socially disputive but it did change the nature of people's houses to become temporary hotels. So it was regulated.

The app economy is no different.

Harvey Normal

andekwarhola wrote: »

This is what's happened here, by the sounds of it.

A lot of managment companies have rules (again, nobody forces people to buy a property in the management company that has these rules) that rule out using your property - or communal areas such as outside or apartment hallways - for business purposes. One of the main ones, for example, would be running car repairs outside your property but you can see how it would extend to this as well.

And there are mortgage restrictions.

VinLieger

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Tinder, no. Uber maybe.

You know the way b&bs are regulated? That. B&Bs started by people renting out a room and throwing in a breakfast (their property right?) and now is totally regulated.

That's the way it works. And it wasn't socially disputive but it did change the nature of people's houses to become temporary hotels. So it was regulated.

The app economy is no different.

And your solution is to make things illegal instead of regulate? Again why blame the service cus government continually fails to keep pace with technology by adequately regulating the new business it makes possible?

If the solution to every new business model made possible by tomorrows technology is to automatically view it with suspicion and potentially ban it because regulations arent automatically ready for it why would anyone bother creating anything new?

Harvey Normal

VinLieger wrote: »

And your solution is to make things illegal instead of regulate? Again why blame the service cus government continually fails to keep pace with technology by adequately regulating the new business it makes possible?

I'd ban it or regulate it very heavily. And adequately regulating airbnb is what is needed.

If the solution to every new business model made possible by tomorrows technology is to automatically view it with suspicion and potentially ban it because regulations arent automatically ready for it why would anyone bother creating anything new?

You are arguing your own straw man here. We aren't talking about "every new business model" but the ones that are problematic. People will create new things because they hope to make money and not get banned or regulated out of existence. Most won't be regulated.

ohnonotgmail

bodhrandude wrote: »

More interesting would be what would Shakin Stevens have done about this.

paint the front door green obviously.

VinLieger

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I'd ban it or regulate it very heavily. And adequately regulating airbnb is what is needed.



You are arguing your own straw man here. We aren't talking about "every new business model" but the ones that are problematic. People will create new things because they hope to make money and not get banned or regulated out of existence. Most won't be regulated.

Why does Airbnb need to be regulated? By all accounts the people who are causing problems by using it are already breaking other regulations so why are they not being targeted for that? Also the majority of Airbnb users are probably doing so in good faith, should they be punished for the actions of a minority?

I am not arguing with a straw man as you have yet to define what you deem "problematic" and have literally stated earlier we should make socially disruptive apps illegal without properly defining what is socially disruptive or adequately explaining why its a bad thing. Also that kind of blanket "change is bad" thinking is exactly what stifles new business ventures and ideas, social disruption is good as it moves society forwards by challenging current ideas and asking is this the right way to do things?

Harvey Normal

VinLieger wrote: »

Why does Airbnb need to be regulated? By all accounts the people who are causing problems by using it are already breaking other regulations so why are they not being targeted for that? Also the majority of Airbnb users are probably doing so in good faith, should they be punished for the actions of a minority?

I am not arguing with a straw man as you have yet to define what you deem "problematic" and have literally stated earlier we should make socially disruptive apps illegal without properly defining what is socially disruptive or adequately explaining why its a bad thing. Also that kind of blanket "change is bad" thinking is exactly what stifles new business ventures and ideas, social disruption is good as it moves society forwards by challenging current ideas and asking is this the right way to do things?

Look let me explain logically.

It is problematic because it affects an already over heated rental market.

It's not a minority of users it's the fact that in a tight rental market long term housing should be prioritised over short term housing.

Because I want to regulate socially disputive apps this isn't a demand that all apps or ideas be regulated. Most are fine.

Social disruption isn't always good

Dyr

Map of airbnb rentals

https://qgiscloud.com/eoinomahony/airbnb_august_data

from here:
https://53degrees.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/august-snapshot-of-dublins-airbnb/

Elliott S

andekwarhola wrote: »

It's pointless deflecting any criticism by simnply acknowledging bigger contributory factors to the rent crisis such as private and social house building. The fact is that Airbnb certainly isn't helping matters.

Plus if I bought an apartment beside what I presumed to be owner-occupied or long-term rental unit, I'd be severely displeased to learn that it was going to have a rapid turnover of essentially unvetted tourist tenants.

All of this. It's not just about taking properties out of the rental market. It's about people having the right to peaceful living if they live in a residential development.

COH

Me and my other half moved into a two bed in Rathmines paying 1400, three months later it was 1600, when it came to renewing that lease were told it would be 1800...

We both loved living there, both worked in the area etc. but just couldn't afford it so we left and now share a house out in south co. Dublin with two other people.

Heard the other day from a friend who still lives there that of the 24 apartments in the block 20 are now reserved for air B'n'B and that they pushed the rent up on the remaining 4 to 2200 a month. They now have to move, probably have to find another school for their young child, meanwhile the apartment block (which only a year ago was filled with young professionals and the likes) is now full of students and stag partys.

The_Valeyard

Heard about this on Newstalk, when your one was finished getting offended and outraged about something else.



They had a speaker from Temple Bar where AirBnB had some agreement with a landlord and hotel. It sounds like tenants who are long term are put through absolute hell. Stag parties, fights, sexual harassment. Seems like a war zone.

gaffer91

Airbnb dwellings in Dublin. Shocking. How anyone could dispute that this isn't having an impact, I don't know. Not the only factor, sure, but definitely significant.

Filmer Paradise

likij wrote: »

One man on liveline today claimed to be subletting 40 rooms. Surely can't be good. Articles available on IT and indo. I can't link as I'm a new user.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

What would Stalin have done about this?

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Ah now, that's pretty obvious. He would use his well known programming of :

'Greater Understanding & Learning Association Group'

bodhrandude wrote: »

More interesting would be what would Shakin Stevens have done about this.

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

He mentioned something about being unable to mend the shingles, floor, hinges and window panes in his own house.

I like you're work there lads.:D