Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

saneman

jh79 wrote: »

Shouldn't be dismissing studies because it's the "wrong strain" when there is no evidence for that.

Regarding marinol , she said no difference between it and whole plant in her study which suggests there is no entourage effect.

This is the best paper to read;

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

I've dismissed nothing, I'm highlighting what I believe are the limitations of current research if based solely on specific strains, something that is also noted many times in your most recent link:

"...many of the cannabis products that are sold in state-regulated markets bear little resemblance to the products that are available for research at the federal level in the United States."

"...very little is known about the efficacy, dose, routes of administration, or side effects of commonly used and commercially available cannabis products in the United States. Given the ubiquitous availability of cannabis products in much of the nation, more research is needed on the various forms, routes of administration, and combination of cannabinoids."

"CONCLUSION 15-2 It is often difficult for researchers to gain access to the quantity, quality, and type of cannabis product necessary to address specific research questions on the health effects of cannabis use."

Just so I'm clear, I'm not saying that these various types are any more (if indeed at all) beneficial, just that there's no evidence yet one way or the other until the scope of research is allowed to expand.

jh79

saneman wrote: »

I've dismissed nothing, I'm highlighting what I believe are the limitations of current research if based solely on specific strains, something that is also noted many times in your most recent link:

"...many of the cannabis products that are sold in state-regulated markets bear little resemblance to the products that are available for research at the federal level in the United States."

"...very little is known about the efficacy, dose, routes of administration, or side effects of commonly used and commercially available cannabis products in the United States. Given the ubiquitous availability of cannabis products in much of the nation, more research is needed on the various forms, routes of administration, and combination of cannabinoids."

"CONCLUSION 15-2 It is often difficult for researchers to gain access to the quantity, quality, and type of cannabis product necessary to address specific research questions on the health effects of cannabis use."

Just so I'm clear, I'm not saying that these various types are any more (if indeed at all) beneficial, just that there's no evidence yet one way or the other until the scope of research is allowed to expand.

Which means we can't say there is good evidence for its use in chronic pain bar short term for , Sativex or Marinol (can't remember which). Neither of which would require a change in Irish law. Sativex is already approved in Ireland.

jh79

Rules for getting medical cannabis online now;

https://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/cannabis-for-medical-use/

https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Clinical-guidance-on-cannabis-for-medical-use.pdf

Safe to assume Gino's bill is dead now.

donkeykong5

Relation just diagnosed with cancer in colon. Liver and glands. Chemo to start in 2 weeks. Does anyone think cannabis oil would help.

Kidchameleon

Great stuff. We are getting closer and closer to legalisation all the time

jh79

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Great stuff. We are getting closer and closer to legalisation all the time

Nothing has changed. It's the same system we always had. Gino Kenny and Vera Twomey have achieved nothing with their pseudoscience and fake news and if anything have hindered progress.

Water John

Great to attack a woman who is only doing what she thinks is best for her child.

jh79

Water John wrote: »

Great to attack a woman who is only doing what she thinks is best for her child.

What about the vunerable people who now think they can cure their cancer because of the pseudoscience promoted by her? Where is your concern for them? What she promotes is dangerous.

Kidchameleon

How does she promote pseudoscience? You keep banging on about nothing being proven. Well, in her case, the proof is right in front of her eyes, her child's health and life are radically improved with Cannabis.


How are things being hindered? Our health authority are releasing documents about their distributing of Cannabis. Its a step forward. How is the sand, salty?

jh79

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How does she promote pseudoscience? You keep banging on about nothing being proven. Well, in her case, the proof is right in front of her eyes, her child's health and life are radically improved with Cannabis.


How are things being hindered? Our health authority are releasing documents about their distributing of Cannabis. Its a step forward. How is the sand, salty?

She claims it works for pretty much every illness you can think of.

The access scheme always existed when Vera started her campaign , 1 licence had already been granted for Dravets. The family involved were helping her but then severed all ties with her. By the time Vera got her licence 6 were issued in the meantime.

Ipso

Do they use cannabis only or in conjunction with other treatments?

Ladyinthedark

Using cbd oil can be dangerous if you take too much to soon so gradually take small drops until u feel you have the right amount . Even taking CBd jelly beans has a great effect on children that suffer from adhd and children that a generally hyper . There is someone selling them on adverts and they work great for my son that suffers with some issues ,I’m just letting people know it doesn’t have a serious effect on organs that tablet prescribed by a doctor over long periods of time

Graces7

I send for various supplements to iherb in theUS.

Parcel that came in yesterday had a great sticker on it "OPENED AND EXAMINED BY CUSTOMS"

Everything was still there. It was CBD capsules and Valerian capsules. We think it was that they contain gel which the custom detection machine picked up ..

Interesting!

Am continuing with cbd a while.

murfilein

Ladyinthedark wrote: »

Using cbd oil can be dangerous if you take too much to soon so gradually take small drops until u feel you have the right amount . Even taking CBd jelly beans has a great effect on children that suffer from adhd and children that a generally hyper . There is someone selling them on adverts and they work great for my son that suffers with some issues ,I’m just letting people know it doesn’t have a serious effect on organs that tablet prescribed by a doctor over long periods of time

i'm probably gonna start with the stuff from holland and barrett soon, even though people report that it tastes disgusting... its cheap though, as a test i'm gonna do that i guess.

what symptoms do you get when you take too much?

Graces7

murfilein wrote: »

i'm probably gonna start with the stuff from holland and barrett soon, even though people report that it tastes disgusting... its cheap though, as a test i'm gonna do that i guess.

what symptoms do you get when you take too much?

I changed to iherb capsules.. the oil is ..... Still as cheap..

Just take a tiny dose ; see if and how it affects YOU. If no effect or OK, up it a little after 5 days and assess again.

Google it too as there are excellent sites there.People are affected differently and the sites explain that.

tommyboy26

i am looking at buying cbd oil. how many days do you get from a 10 ml bottle?

rizzee

I bought 10ml cbd from discount supplements 3 days ago. Taking 5 drops (one "serving'') under the tongue the last 3 days. Don't feel anything different although I don't know what I'm meant to feel :pac:

tommyboy26

https://www.organico.ie/celtic-wind-cbd-oil-10ml.html

i got this during the week and the dosage says one .7ml squeeze. forgive my stupidity but is that the whole tube on the dropper or is it a few drops?

jh79

Another article from Science Based Medicine on the lack of any real evidence of medical benefits.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/marijuana-beliefs-outstrip-evidence/

Water John

Well the UK is relaxing its use. It follows two reviews:
'The move by the home secretary comes after the government’s official drug advisers and the chief medical officer for England, Sally Davies, separately concluded there was evidence of therapeutic benefit for some conditions.'

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/26/cannabis-based-medicines-get-green-light-as-uk-eases-rules

Moving from Schedule 1 to 2. Liciense can also be obtained for scientific research

jh79

Water John wrote: »

Well the UK is relaxing its use. It follows two reviews:
'The move by the home secretary comes after the government’s official drug advisers and the chief medical officer for England, Sally Davies, separately concluded there was evidence of therapeutic benefit for some conditions.'

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/26/cannabis-based-medicines-get-green-light-as-uk-eases-rules

Moving from Schedule 1 to 2. Liciense can also be obtained for scientific research

Sounds like it will be similar to our own system where all other options have been exhausted and only certain products allowed.

"Thousands of people with drug-resistant conditions will potentially be able to use cannabis-derived medicinal products for treatment after the home secretary, Sajid Javid, announced ..."

"Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency will now develop a clear definition of what constitutes a cannabis-derived medicinal product so they can be rescheduled and prescribed. Only products meeting this definition will be rescheduled."

Water John

Clear pathway for their prescription by a doctor. Also acknowledgment that it provides relief in certain cases.

jh79

Water John wrote: »

Clear pathway for their prescription by a doctor. Also acknowledgment that it provides relief in certain cases.

But not enough to be considered a first line treatment. It's appropriate for the evidence that's available, just like the current irish set up.

evolving_doors

jh79 wrote: »

But not enough to be considered a first line treatment. It's appropriate for the evidence that's available, just like the current irish set up.

But it's at the doctor's descretion now though, no?

jh79

evolving_doors wrote: »

But it's at the doctor's descretion now though, no?

Based on that article, it would appear so. Wether its a GP or Consultant does it really matter? The patient will only be considered for a cannabis based medicine if they are drug resistant ie all other options have been exhausted.

evolving_doors

jh79 wrote: »

Based on that article, it would appear so. Wether its a GP or Consultant does it really matter? The patient will only be considered for a cannabis based medicine if they are drug resistant ie all other options have been exhausted.

What if the doctor decides it's the first choice!

jh79

evolving_doors wrote: »

What if the doctor decides it's the first choice!

They can't.

jh79

They really should of waited till the MHRA did their review.

“However, there is still a very important body of work to define exactly which products will be allowed and how they will be regulated.”

He added: “Any move to restrict medical cannabis in the UK to a very narrow range of derived products, each requiring full pharmaceutical trials, thereby blocking out the many products available overseas, will lead to great disappointment and be a missed opportunity"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/medical-cannabis-uk-prescription-legal-epilepsy-pain-relief-home-office-moj-nhs-a8464766.html

jh79

evolving_doors wrote: »

But it's at the doctor's descretion now though, no?

BBC are reporting its "Specialist Doctors".

jh79

If this article turns out to be correct the uk system will be at best the same as ours. Bedrocan and similar is available here, this articles suggests that Bedrocan might not be allowed in the uk.

"Medicinal cannabis: how two heartbreaking cases helped change law"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/26/medicinal-cannabis-how-two-heartbreaking-cases-helped-change-law?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

"However, it looks as though UK rules will allow only for medicines derived from cannabis, rather than medicinal cannabis itself, meaning that they are likely to benefit the kinds of extensively trialled products marketed by drug companies such as GW."

"They are likely to be conservative and only recommend processed medicinal products. However, pharmaceutical herbal cannabis, such as Bedrocan, does exist and could be considered."