Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

jh79

Just seen an ad for cbd oil, half price in Holland & Barett. The price was in euros too. Selling it here too.

jh79

A fifth licence has been granted for medicinal cannabis.

Kidchameleon

jh79 wrote: »

A fifth licence has been granted for medicinal cannabis.

Wow you'd almost think it actually does have medicinal benefits at this stage

evolving_doors

In your face Jh79 :pac:

Fact: cannabis cures cancer... maybe
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/02/21/1372706/0/en/Pascal-Biosciences-Identifies-Molecules-in-Cannabis-That-Stimulate-the-Immune-System-to-Destroy-Tumor-Cells.html

Seanachai

jh79 wrote: »

Just seen an ad for cbd oil, half price in Holland & Barett. The price was in euros too. Selling it here too.

I've only tried the type that is up to €40 for a small bottle, I find it of little or no benefit for pain or inflammation. I'm wondering if the more premium priced products are effective, but I'm not willing to fork out the €200 - €300 at the moment. I'm envious of American friends telling about how they can just go into a dispensary and get a suitable strain of a high quality.

jh79

Seanachai wrote: »

I've only tried the type that is up to €40 for a small bottle, I find it of little or no benefit for pain or inflammation. I'm wondering if the more premium priced products are effective, but I'm not willing to fork out the €200 - €300 at the moment. I'm envious of American friends telling about how they can just go into a dispensary and get a suitable strain of a high quality.

How do you judge what is high quality or a suitable strain?

Given what we know from the available research it not working is hardly surprising. Personally wouldn't waste any more money on it. The Dutch don't pay much heed to "strains*", just thc/cbd levels when it come to medical marijuana

*some scientist don't believe that sativa and indica are any different. Only the ratios are important.
* i coundn't tell the difference either. Skunk was just the same as OG Kush or Super Silverhaze. Some felt stronger but not different.

Seanachai

jh79 wrote: »

How do you judge what is high quality or a suitable strain?

Given what we know from the available research it not working is hardly surprising. Personally wouldn't waste any more money on it. The Dutch don't pay much heed to "strains*", just thc/cbd levels when it come to medical marijuana

*some scientist don't believe that sativa and indica are any different. Only the ratios are important.
* i coundn't tell the difference either. Skunk was just the same as OG Kush or Super Silverhaze. Some felt stronger but not different.

I do notice a difference between the strains in terms of their attributes like pain relief, euphoria, body relaxation, anxiety reduction etc. In relation to quality, I can definitely tell the difference between the poison that is sold on the streets in Ireland and a properly cultivated plant.

I think there are other factors at play such as the terpenes present in the different strains, it's not just down to ratios of THC/CBD.

potatohouse

jh79 wrote: »

Just seen an ad for cbd oil, half price in Holland & Barett. The price was in euros too. Selling it here too.

overpriced snake oil. give yer friend who moved to canada a buzz + pay a quarter of the price for the real, more potent stuff

kleefarr

Seanachai wrote: »

I do notice a difference between the strains in terms of their attributes like pain relief, euphoria, body relaxation, anxiety reduction etc. In relation to quality, I can definitely tell the difference between the poison that is sold on the streets in Ireland and a properly cultivated plant.

I think there are other factors at play such as the terpenes present in the different strains, it's not just down to ratios of THC/CBD.

Confirmed. It isn't just the type, sativa or indica, some do a better job than others.
On trip to Oregon a few years ago the bud tender had all the info about what was best for pain etc.

gctest50

Unanimous Positive Result of FDA Advisory Committee Meeting for First Plant-Based Pharmaceutical Cannabidiol Treatment for Seizures in Patients with Two Rare, Severe Forms of Epilepsy


https://www.gwpharm.com/about-us/news/gw-pharmaceuticals-announces-unanimous-positive-result-fda-advisory-committee-meeting

Graces7

jh79 wrote: »

Just seen an ad for cbd oil, half price in Holland & Barett. The price was in euros too. Selling it here too.

Ordered last week.. Buy one, get another half price.

If you are one of those it does help, maybe where conventional medicine has failed, then that is great . As with so much, varies hugely in its effectiveness.. Willing to give it a fair try.

K.Flyer

Sajid Javid overturned the confiscation of the cannabis oil taken from the Caldwell family last week.

Time to review' medicinal cannabis laws - government

Sajid Javid has declared it is "time to review" the medicinal status of cannabis, but promised it is "not a first step" to legalising the drug for recreational use.
The home secretary said current laws were "not acceptable to me", as he announced details of the panel being set up to advise ministers on the changes.

Graces7

K.Flyer wrote: »

Sajid Javid overturned the confiscation of the cannabis oil taken from the Caldwell family last week.

Time to review' medicinal cannabis laws - government

What though would it being allowed as medicinal mean in real terms? ie does this mean it would be prescription only from a GP?

K.Flyer

Graces7 wrote: »

What though would it being allowed as medicinal mean in real terms? ie does this mean it would be prescription only from a GP?

I would imagine it would be reviewed on a case by case basis in the beginning and under special license similar to Ava Twomey's situation (although their situation is very far from ideal). Maybe afterwards it will become more easily obtainable for those that benefit from it, but I doubt "medicinal cannabis" would ever be as freely available as it is in some parts of the states.

Graces7

K.Flyer wrote: »

I would imagine it would be reviewed on a case by case basis in the beginning and under special license similar to Ava Twomey's situation (although their situation is very far from ideal). Maybe afterwards it will become more easily obtainable for those that benefit from it, but I doubt "medicinal cannabis" would ever be as freely available as it is in some parts of the states.

Crazy situation. I will see if it helps then stock up ...started today. But we would still be able to get the supplements?

jh79

Graces7 wrote: »

Crazy situation. I will see if it helps then stock up ...started today. But we would still be able to get the supplements?

CBD oil isn't an issue as long as those selling it don't claim a medical benefit just like any supplement. No need to stock up.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

I would imagine it would be reviewed on a case by case basis in the beginning and under special license similar to Ava Twomey's situation (although their situation is very far from ideal). Maybe afterwards it will become more easily obtainable for those that benefit from it, but I doubt "medicinal cannabis" would ever be as freely available as it is in some parts of the states.

Why is Vera's situation far from ideal? She has access and the state is paying for it.

Supposedly there will be no legislation introduced . The access scheme is to be streamlined based on the HPRA recommendations. They are going to use a GMP standard product from Bulgaria.

Ubbquittious

Looks like the alcohol crowd are starting to quake in their boots a bit: https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2018/06/new-conference-to-explore-cannabis-and-alcohol/

K.Flyer

jh79 wrote: »

Why is Vera's situation far from ideal? She has access and the state is paying for it..

Sorry, I stand corrected, as I hadn't been right up to date and thought she was still self funding.
After doing a quick search just now I found a news article about it, absolutely wonderful news for her and others like her daughter who will benefit from it, although it would be more ideal if they didn't have to travel and could have it posted to them. But given everything that they have been through, it's probably a small price to pay.

murfilein

Graces7 wrote: »

Ordered last week.. Buy one, get another half price.

If you are one of those it does help, maybe where conventional medicine has failed, then that is great . As with so much, varies hugely in its effectiveness.. Willing to give it a fair try.

Wow that's interesting!

Have you tried it?

I have multiple sclerosis and while my leg muscle spasms while normally walking are virtually gone since I'm on tecfidera, i still can't run more than 15 or so minutes without getting very stiff and nearly cramped calves (calfes?) and my foot dropping.

Maybe this stuff can help?

I read that cannabis can really help with those ms symptoms and I'm keen on trying it out.

Graces7

murfilein wrote: »

Wow that's interesting!

Have you tried it?

I have multiple sclerosis and while my leg muscle spasms while normally walking are virtually gone since I'm on tecfidera, i still can't run more than 15 or so minutes without getting very stiff and nearly cramped calves (calfes?) and my foot dropping.

Maybe this stuff can help?

I read that cannabis can really help with those ms symptoms and I'm keen on trying it out.

Talking about hemp oil/cbd oil, not cannabis. From Holland and Barrett as a supplement .. I have M.E.CFS and auto immune problems with raynauds and pain.

This week, using hemp oil, I have had some good sleep for the first time for months. It has eased the pain enough for that. Feeling a lot eased.

There is a lot online and on youtube, and if you are taking prescription meds you MUST talk to your Doctor first. I am not.

But I am cautiously optimistic that for me, this will help, Tastes 'orrible!

jh79

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

saneman

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

That is indeed what the study reports but it also notes:

"This finding needs to be qualified as participants had access only to illicit cannabis and were not taking cannabis as part of structured pain management under medical supervision."

Given that this is the case the study does not take into account the type of cannabis used (e.g. THC vs CBD ratio) or indeed how it is taken (smoking, vaped, edibles). Not all cannabis is the same and the method of ingestion significantly changes its affect and imo both of these are hugely important factors which, from the numerous studies I've read, do not appear to be taken into account. Combine both factors and the variables involved increase so a study can only be definitive, one way or the other, if it covers a particular condition with a specific strain/dose and method of imbibing.

jh79

saneman wrote: »

That is indeed what the study reports but it also notes:

"This finding needs to be qualified as participants had access only to illicit cannabis and were not taking cannabis as part of structured pain management under medical supervision."

Given that this is the case the study does not take into account the type of cannabis used (e.g. THC vs CBD ratio) or indeed how it is taken (smoking, vaped, edibles). Not all cannabis is the same and the method of ingestion significantly changes its affect and imo both of these are hugely important factors which, from the numerous studies I've read, do not appear to be taken into account. Combine both factors and the variables involved increase so a study can only be definitive, one way or the other, if it covers a particular condition with a specific strain/dose and method of imbibing.

There is no evidence strains have different effects the current scientific theory is that the ratio and relative concentrations of thc and cbd is all that matter.

What differentiates strains anyways apart from the fancy craft beer esque names?

evolving_doors

jh79 wrote: »

There is no evidence strains have different effects the current scientific theory is that the ratio and relative concentrations of thc and cbd is all that matter.

What differentiates strains anyways apart from the fancy craft beer esque names?

Different strains would have differing amts of CBD TBC etc.
Also Terepenes have some merit for investigation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3165946/#!po=6.16438

saneman

jh79 wrote: »

There is no evidence strains have different effects the current scientific theory is that the ratio and relative concentrations of thc and cbd is all that matter.

What differentiates strains anyways apart from the fancy craft beer esque names?

As evolving_doors has stated, the different strains can have much different THC/CBD ratios and amounts, as well as differing terpenes. Hemp is just another cannabis strain after all, just with a negligible THC component hence the reason it can be grown legally in Ireland for the CBD market. Now there is a sativa/indica debate but that's more in the realm of recreational cannabis and doesn't hold water imo and has more to do with how the compounds develop in the plant if/when it is cured after harvesting.

In terms of ingestion cannabis smoked/vaped gets to the bloodstream via the lungs, when eaten the THC is metabolised in the liver into a compound that is believed to be more effective at crossing the blood-brain barrier. Given that the study you quoted relates to chronic pain this could also have significance.

jh79

saneman wrote: »

As evolving_doors has stated, the different strains can have much different THC/CBD ratios and amounts, as well as differing terpenes. Hemp is just another cannabis strain after all, just with a negligible THC component hence the reason it can be grown legally in Ireland for the CBD market. Now there is a sativa/indica debate but that's more in the realm of recreational cannabis and doesn't hold water imo and has more to do with how the compounds develop in the plant if/when it is cured after harvesting.

In terms of ingestion cannabis smoked/vaped gets to the bloodstream via the lungs, when eaten the THC is metabolised in the liver into a compound that is believed to be more effective at crossing the blood-brain barrier. Given that the study you quoted relates to chronic pain this could also have significance.

Pretty certian the other studies on chronic pain used vaping without sucess either.

jh79

evolving_doors wrote: »

Different strains would have differing amts of CBD TBC etc.
Also Terepenes have some merit for investigation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3165946/#!po=6.16438

More recent article saying there is no real hard evidence for terpenes and an entourage effect just retailers trying to market their latest product.

Studies comparing isolated thc and cbd against whole plant found no difference in benefits.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/some-of-the-parts-is-marijuana-rsquo-s-ldquo-entourage-effect-rdquo-scientifically-valid/

saneman

jh79 wrote: »

Pretty certian the other studies on chronic pain used vaping without sucess either.

If you happen to come across any of those studies again please post links. I don't believe that smoking should be used for any medical application of cannabis and that vaping (both dry verb or eliquid-like variants) is an objectively safer method of administration. It's shown to be rare for an individual to use vaping as the sole method of using cannabis for medicinal application (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5140730/) although I believe this is likely to change over time.

jh79 wrote: »

More recent article saying there is no real hard evidence for terpenes and an entourage effect just retailers trying to market their latest product.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/some-of-the-parts-is-marijuana-rsquo-s-ldquo-entourage-effect-rdquo-scientifically-valid/

I've read that article and it's not that definitive regarding the entourage effect (although there's absolutely a marketing element to it):

Quoting from it "..marijuana may actually have an entourage effect but it is impossible to know without more information. (Margaret Haney, Columbia University neurobiologist) “I would love to do a study comparing strains,” she says. “I would love to directly compare but I’m unable to work with any marijuana on the street or in dispensaries.”"

That's unlikely to change with the current Schedule 1 status of cannabis in the US which is a greater issue in itself.

jh79 wrote: »

Studies comparing isolated thc and cbd against whole plant found no difference in benefits.

So there are benefits. In fact when Marinol, a synthetic THC, is referred to in the article "“So we did the study, and it’s not a lousy drug. It works for pain. It works for appetite. Marinol works quite well."

If a variety of the whole plant can also offer that...

jh79

saneman wrote: »

If you happen to come across any of those studies again please post links. I don't believe that smoking should be used for any medical application of cannabis and that vaping (both dry verb or eliquid-like variants) is an objectively safer method of administration. It's shown to be rare for an individual to use vaping as the sole method of using cannabis for medicinal application (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5140730/) although I believe this is likely to change over time.



I've read that article and it's not that definitive regarding the entourage effect (although there's absolutely a marketing element to it):

Quoting from it "..marijuana may actually have an entourage effect but it is impossible to know without more information. (Margaret Haney, Columbia University neurobiologist) “I would love to do a study comparing strains,” she says. “I would love to directly compare but I’m unable to work with any marijuana on the street or in dispensaries.”"

That's unlikely to change with the current Schedule 1 status of cannabis in the US which is a greater issue in itself.



So there are benefits. In fact when Marinol, a synthetic THC, is referred to in the article "“So we did the study, and it’s not a lousy drug. It works for pain. It works for appetite. Marinol works quite well."

If a variety of the whole plant can also offer that...

Shouldn't be dismissing studies because it's the "wrong strain" when there is no evidence for that.

Regarding marinol , she said no difference between it and whole plant in her study which suggests there is no entourage effect.

This is the best paper to read;

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1