Ulster v Exeter (BT Sport 2, 7:45)

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

Ulster's forwards weren't all that bad tonight.

Ulster had the majority of possession and field position. The backs had a decent platform but just didn't do much with it.

As a reaction to last week's defeat, it wasn't exactly the backlash we were hoping for.

With no big ball carrier Ulster won't be able to make the proper use of their backs. Exeter were able to manage Ulsters attacking game really well. How many times did Ulster go to the corner and come away with nothing? Against a fairly average Exeter......

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Tbf Henderson is one of the best carriers in Ireland. But after that there's nobody approaching his level of carrying ability. Ah You is decent but after that there's nothing.

Agreed on Henderson but haven't seen any of that from him this season.

Ah You is a bit like a French team, you don't know which version of him is going to show up. However I don't see him as a powerful carrier. He's a big strong lad and has a bit of pace so if he comes onto the ball with a bit of speed he is going to take a bit of stopping, but he isn't going to give you meters over the gainline from static starts like powerful ball carriers can and those are the meters that really count (especially when the opposition are getting so much time to reset).

awec

bilston wrote: »

They will obviously make a difference, whether it's enough I have no idea.

My view is Europe is gone. We are 2 points off the minimum of where we needed to be at this stage, we need at the very least 15 points from our last 4 games and that includes a home and away series against the best team in France and an away game to an improving Exeter side.

What we need to do is stay in there in the league until January and if we get Coetzee and Henry back then it will strengthen us. Getting a top 2 finish in the league is imperative. We may not win a final in the Aviva against Leinster (for example), but getting to the final of that competition should be our target.

Yes we're gone. Need to be pragmatic at this point, focus on the league.

Cathalthesmart

bilston wrote: »

They will obviously make a difference, whether it's enough I have no idea.

My view is Europe is gone. We are 2 points off the minimum of where we needed to be at this stage, we need at the very least 15 points from our last 4 games and that includes a home and away series against the best team in France and an away game to an improving Exeter side.

What we need to do is stay in there in the league until January and if we get Coetzee and Henry back then it will strengthen us. Getting a top 2 finish in the league is imperative. We may not win a final in the Aviva against Leinster (for example), but getting to the final of that competition should be our target.

Europe is gone after 2 games, good to see that your determined.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Tbf Henderson is one of the best carriers in Ireland. But after that there's nobody approaching his level of carrying ability. Ah You is decent but after that there's nothing.

Agreed on Henderson but haven't seen any of that from him this season.

Ah You is a bit like a French team, you don't know which version of him is going to show up. However I don't see him as a powerful carrier. He's a big strong lad and has a bit of pace so if he comes onto the ball with a bit of speed he is going to take a bit of stopping, but he isn't going to give you meters over the gainline from static starts like powerful ball carriers can and those are the meters that really count (especially when the opposition are getting so much time to reset).

I'm not convinced Henderson has been fully fit.

The other thing is basically our only carrier. Therefore the opposition just have to target him. We have to figure out a way of using him differently to make him more effective.

Coetzee isn't a renowned carrier at test level for SA, but for us he will have to be, and in the Pro 12 anyway probably will be.

Cathalthesmart

Henry returning will make a huge difference.

awec

awec wrote: »

Yes we're gone. Need to be pragmatic at this point, focus on the league.

The year Leinster had Exeter and Clermont in our group all we needed was a winning bonus point against Exeter and we would have gone through (we lost home and away to Clermont).

Exeter really showed up and Munster went through against one of the French teams who sent the c-team.

It's not over til it's over, all the teams in this group can do damage to one another and as I mentioned above, Exeter won't be coughing up points later on.

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

With no big ball carrier Ulster won't be able to make the proper use of their backs. Exeter were able to manage Ulsters attacking game really well. How many times did Ulster go to the corner and come away with nothing? Against a fairly average Exeter......

Yeah they need more ballast alright.

But how many times did the backs have clean ball and go nowhere with it?

TBH they looked badly coached.

bilston

Cathalthesmart wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

They will obviously make a difference, whether it's enough I have no idea.

My view is Europe is gone. We are 2 points off the minimum of where we needed to be at this stage, we need at the very least 15 points from our last 4 games and that includes a home and away series against the best team in France and an away game to an improving Exeter side.

What we need to do is stay in there in the league until January and if we get Coetzee and Henry back then it will strengthen us. Getting a top 2 finish in the league is imperative. We may not win a final in the Aviva against Leinster (for example), but getting to the final of that competition should be our target.

Europe is gone after 2 games, good to see that your determined.

I'm not a player so it matters not a jot what I think!

I still think we should go for it, although some Ulster fans wouldn't even agree with that. But right now I don't see how we get the points required to qualify.

The main positive, apart from Piutau's try is that we did actually come back to win. In the past we wouldn't have, so at least Paddy and the lads showed some balls at the end.

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

With no big ball carrier Ulster won't be able to make the proper use of their backs. Exeter were able to manage Ulsters attacking game really well. How many times did Ulster go to the corner and come away with nothing? Against a fairly average Exeter......

Yeah they need more ballast alright.

But how many times did the backs have clean ball and go nowhere with it?

TBH they looked badly coached.

With no carriers sucking in defenders Exeter were able to fan out quite easily which made things so much harder on Ulsters back line. There was feck all space out there. But yeah they still should have done better.

funtime93

4 points against clermont at home, 5 against Bordeaux at home and 4 against Exeter away brings Ulster to 17, assuming they get nothing away to clermont. Would that not be enough to get a runner up spot?

Cathalthesmart

bilston wrote: »

I'm not a player so it matters not a jot what I think!

I still think we should go for it, although some Ulster fans wouldn't even agree with that. But right now I don't see how we get the points required to qualify.

The main positive, apart from Piutau's try is that we did actually come back to win. In the past we wouldn't have, so at least Paddy and the lads showed some balls at the end.

The group that funnily enough included all of Ulsters opponents this year looked wrapped up going into round 5 and then suddenly Osperys beat Clermont at home denying them a LBP and from that point on suddenly it was back on. I always remember Baxter picking a weakened side for there match vs Bordeaux and then in his pre match interview he was asked if he regreated any selections in the light of the Ospery v Clermont result. This is sport, nothing is a guarantee so until its over Ulster just need to keep there head down and keep on fighting an then when mathematically there out of it, then they can focus on the league.

Cathalthesmart

People forget Ulster will have McCloskey back, he will make a huge difference. Olding and Marshall are much better when one or the other is paired with big Stu.

molloyjh

funtime93 wrote: »

4 points against clermont at home, 5 against Bordeaux at home and 4 against Exeter away brings Ulster to 17, assuming they get nothing away to clermont. Would that not be enough to get a runner up spot?

No. Ulster got 18 last season and didn't make it out. Even if they'd gotten 19 they wouldn't have been guaranteed a QF as there was 1 team on 20 and another 2 on 19. So 19 minimum, but preferably more.

mansize

Laptop died- congrats lads

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

funtime93 wrote: »

4 points against clermont at home, 5 against Bordeaux at home and 4 against Exeter away brings Ulster to 17, assuming they get nothing away to clermont. Would that not be enough to get a runner up spot?

No. Ulster got 18 last season and didn't make it out. Even if they'd gotten 19 they wouldn't have been guaranteed a QF as there was 1 team on 20 and another 2 on 19. So 19 minimum, but preferably more.

I think 18 got someone through in 2015 (may have been Bath?) May be wrong on that.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

funtime93 wrote: »

4 points against clermont at home, 5 against Bordeaux at home and 4 against Exeter away brings Ulster to 17, assuming they get nothing away to clermont. Would that not be enough to get a runner up spot?

No. Ulster got 18 last season and didn't make it out. Even if they'd gotten 19 they wouldn't have been guaranteed a QF as there was 1 team on 20 and another 2 on 19. So 19 minimum, but preferably more.

I think 18 got someone through in 2015 (may have been Bath?) May be wrong on that.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

funtime93 wrote: »

4 points against clermont at home, 5 against Bordeaux at home and 4 against Exeter away brings Ulster to 17, assuming they get nothing away to clermont. Would that not be enough to get a runner up spot?

No. Ulster got 18 last season and didn't make it out. Even if they'd gotten 19 they wouldn't have been guaranteed a QF as there was 1 team on 20 and another 2 on 19. So 19 minimum, but preferably more.

I think 18 got someone through in 2015 (may have been Bath?) May be wrong on that.

bilston

We should have gone for the posts earlier in the game. Built a lead and taken the sting out of Exeter. It is something that Ulster are guilty of too often. Watch NZ and you'll know they build leads before really going for it. Ulster get carried away too early for me. If Ulster had been 9-3 up when Piutau scored then it's 16-3 and Exeter are right up against it. Instead it's a one score game.

Learn how to build a fecking lead please!

jacothelad

The bottom line is that all Ulster fans realise the severe limitations of the forwards usually available to the coach. Perhaps Touhy's imminent return will bring a bit of grunt and a carrying option. Chris Henry might make a difference but given his form since his return from his stroke I doubt it.

In reality, Best, Touhy, Henry, Bowe and Trimble are near the end of their careers simply by their age profiles.

Wilson is looking at the end of his career in the rear view mirror.

Diack has never been up to much despite his size, pace and skill levels. Such a waste.

Calum Black was signed as a back up player. He still is - though sort of o.k. - just.

Van der Merwe is decent but won't be here next year.

There has been a lot of talk about Ulster's failure to develop a 9 worthy of the shirt but in fact the catastrophic failure for the last 5 years has been the inability to turn Academy forwards into senior players or recruit back row players worthy of a contract. Why have we rarely (or never) seen players like Dow, Trenier, Rea et al getting bench time? Why do Ulster think it's a good idea to sign (or even re-sign) players who have failed elsewhere?

I would suggest that our forwards coach has much responsibility for the decline in the team's forward play. They have no 'devil' in them at all. No killer instinct and quite frankly don't look as fit as they were two or three years ago.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

The bottom line is that all Ulster fans realise the severe limitations of the forwards usually available to the coach. Perhaps Touhy's imminent return will bring a bit of grunt and a carrying option. Chris Henry might make a difference but given his form since his return from his stroke I doubt it.

In reality, Best, Touhy, Henry, Bowe and Trimble are near the end of their careers simply by their age profiles.

Wilson is looking at the end of his career in the rear view mirror.

Diack has never been up to much despite his size, pace and skill levels. Such a waste.

Calum Black was signed as a back up player. He still is - though sort of o.k. - just.

Van der Merwe is decent but won't be here next year.

There has been a lot of talk about Ulster's failure to develop a 9 worthy of the shirt but in fact the catastrophic failure for the last 5 years has been the inability to turn Academy forwards into senior players or recruit back row players worthy of a contract. Why have we rarely (or never) seen players like Dow, Trenier, Rea et al getting bench time? Why do Ulster think it's a good idea to sign (or even re-sign) players who have failed elsewhere?

I would suggest that our forwards coach has much responsibility for the decline in the team's forward play. They have no 'devil' in them at all. No killer instinct and quite frankly don't look as fit as they were two or three years ago.

You have to assume Dow, Trenier and Rea aren't good enough. I haven't see Trenier play but the other two have done well when I've seen them.

Given we are losing Pienaar and will presumably have about 400k burning a hole in our pocket and given VDM will be leaving as well, I hope we sign a big ball carrying lock. I assume given we have Coetzee we won't be allowed a NIQ back row.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I think my match thread write up was just about the right effort for what this match turned out to be.

molloyjh

Tuohy was anonymous against the Leinster As a few weeks ago. I know he was only coming back from injury and it must be hard to get pumped for an A friendly like that, but he was the captain and he went missing. Wouldn't be holding out hope there. He's been playing with the As for at least 3 weeks now. Surely he could have been an option on the bench this week?

I think questions have to be asked about Ulster recruitment in general. There seems to be a high priority put on outside backs and forwards seem to be an afterthought. Paul Marshall isn't good enough to be a back up 9 yet Ulster have been happy to let him be because of Pienaar. There's been more of an effort to sign, as you said, failed players from elsewhere. But not just failed players, failed players with no potential. Other than a handful of backs Ulsters recruitment has been really bad. And great and all as Piutau is he's wasted in that team. Yet he was brought in ahead of even 1 quality forward.

The Academy can't produce anything other than outside backs either right now which obviously doesn't help but I was saying it when Piutau was announced, I just don't get Ulsters recruitment policies at all.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I think my match thread write up was just about the right effort for what this match turned out to be.

I thought it was entertaining enough. It was anyone's right to the end.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I think my match thread write up was just about the right effort for what this match turned out to be.

I thought it was entertaining enough.

Yeah the match thread was exciting from start to finish all right.

:pac:

blackdog1

bilston wrote:

We should hopefully have Henry back for the Clermont games.

Henry was poor last season everyone forgets. Reidy got ahead of him on merit. Henry is not a physical player and won't give you front foot ball. Coetzee on the other hand........

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

I thought it was entertaining enough. It was anyone's right to the end.

Especially when nobody posted the score.

It was anyone's as far as I was concerned. Right up to the end. A real nailbiter.

Digifriendly

Was at the match tonight. Very subdued atmosphere throughout the 80 minutes compared to usual European nights which are rocking. Has Axel's sad and tragic passing put a cloud over the whole weekend I wonder? I can understand if it has and can't see another reason for so quiet an evening at Ravenhill.

CatFromHue

Digifriendly wrote: »

Was at the match tonight. Very subdued atmosphere throughout the 80 minutes compared to usual European nights which are rocking. Has Axel's sad and tragic passing put a cloud over the whole weekend I wonder? I can understand if it has and can't see another reason for so quiet an evening at Ravenhill.

I missed the first 30 mins but from what I saw there wasn't a huge amount to get the fans into the game.

Adbrowne

CatFromHue wrote: »

I missed the first 30 mins but from what I saw there wasn't a huge amount to get the fans into the game.

I thought Ulster were decent the first 15-20 but they didnt convert chances. It seems to be how they go. They turned down a few close range penalties to go the corner then dropped the ball when they might have built a lead 3-6-9-12 if they kept doing what they were doing.