The Spawell complex for Dublin GAA - back on the agenda

Flukey

Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.

Fr Tod Umptious

Flukey wrote: »

Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.

And thus the thread will descend into a Croke Park debate.

But before it does.
Yea a good medium capacity ground in Dublin, easy to get to from the rest of Leinster would be a very good idea.

Bunny Colvin

Flukey wrote: »

Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.

What planet are you living on on

Dirty Dingus McGee

Seems like more needless waste (if Dublin are 100% paying for it themselves then fine off they go) but I'm not sure it is really necessary for Dublin to have their own stadium when they can use Croke Park.The money could be put to much better use,, same applies to the ridiculously costly development of Pairc Ui Caoimh. There aren't enough big games to justify all these stadia around the country.

corny

Whats the point? The GAA won't let them play there in the championship. If its not Croke Park its Nowlan Park for one game.

If its built for 3 or 4 league games per year the county board need their heads examined.

Had to laugh at the article "Spawell, which has the advantage of being located on the southside". Guess we know where the author comes from.

nice_guy80

ah yes, more facilities for Dublin

that will help

Stoner

corny wrote:

Whats the point? The GAA won't let them play there in the championship. If its not Croke Park its Nowlan Park for one game.

I agree. I don't see the point. It won't be used

I see playing in CP as playing at home because it's down the road for me and I'm home in no time.
I don't particularly like Parnell park, but it does the trick when used correctly.

Yes it's a ground that many teams are very familiar with but it is what it is

The money IMO would be better spent making sure we had a decent ground in each Provence. We'll have that in Leinster and Munster, sort the other two so that all teams and fans have a quality stadium to go to relatively locally. Have Hawkeye in them all and enough refs to control a game with video playback support

PARlance

Flukey wrote: »

Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

Parking could be an issue.

I can't see how parking would be an issue with that site, ample space to serve a 25,000 stadium.

ArielAtom

This could be fun. Will we see the argument develop as described by one poster of "sure they have the use of Croker" and the posters who have said that the use of Croker is a big advantage to the Dubs.

I think its a great idea. More of an atmosphere for Dublin matches with a full 25/35k stadium than a 1/3rd full Croker. Easy acces for all of Dublin plus Leinster from the M50. But can everyone see past the Dubs shure they get everything???

ProudDUB

Mixed feelings about it really. A large part of that, is pure selfishness. Right now, I can drive/bus/Dart it to PP and Croker in 15/25 mins. Getting out to Lucan is a bit of a trek, for me. I'm willing to soldier on, but will other who are used to the ease of access to both PP and Croker? Will people stay away, when the craic factor and the usual rituals of meeting your friends for beers in the pubs around Croker, or in the Croke Park Hotel, will be no more? It has happened in the States, when city authorities moved stadiums out of their old traditional neighbourhoods and, out to rather souless motorway exits.

It is a massive amount of money. I think I'd prefer to see it be reinvested in people and facilitites at groundroots and club level, be they better club facilities, equipment, more pitches (especially between the canals,) more Games Development Officers etc etc. People bang on about us having GPO's in the first place, but when you equate them to one GPO per the sheer number of kids in some clubs, they are spread very, very thin.

Realistically, how many games will be played there, that will warrant the expense? The latter stages of the AI champo will never be moved out of Croker. The Leinster Final will never be moved out of Croker. I can't even see the Leinster semifinal double header being moved out of Croker. So that just leaves one championship game. Plus 3/4 league games in the football. It's difficult to know how much the hulers warrant being a part of the conversation. They (sadly) do not draw huge crowds and let's be brutally honest here, they probably never will, not until they start winning and winning consistantly.

If the GAA/Leinster Council, want another mid size stadium, that is within easy reach of the M50 for other counties, then they should be paying for it, not us.

Public transport out to Spawell on Sundays and Saturday evenings isn't great. Won't be a problem for us Dubs, the trip will be just be longer for us. We'll have to get a bus into town and a bus out again, but it's still doable. How user friendly will it be for someone coming up from the country and are relying on public transport? I can see that impacting league attendances badly. Or maybe it will make it easier on people, as they can easily drive to and park at the game. We'll have to wait and see there.

I'm not convinced the new facility will have adequate parking. No disrespect to the DCB, but the the GAA and the country in general, has a piss poor record of providing adequate parking for public faciliites, as well a decent access/exit roads, that don't lead to serious traffic problems on the way in and out. I remain to be convinced there.

I'm not against the idea of a mid size stadium out in Spawell, in theory. Just as I am not against the idea of Cork, having the second best, or biggest stadium in the country, after Croker. But when you consider the over all cost, the over all number of games that will be played there, the words white elephant come to mind, especially when you think of how much better the money could be spent.

Flukey

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

What planet are you living on on

Earth. How about you? Maybe you are not familiar with Earth. On it is a country called Ireland. In it is a county called Dublin. In it is a GAA ground known as Parnell Park. It is Dublin's home ground. In 2004, Dublin played a championship match in it, but none since then. Anyway, back to talking about a new facility to be developed in Dublin.

Flukey

The pitch could mostly be used for Dublin's home league games and maybe an early championship match and some matches between other counties and some club championship matches. So it could get good use. The overall development will have other facilities for training and other things. It has great potential if developed properly, with value for Dublin and for Leinster and even beyond. So it is not just about the pitch itself and it is not just about Dublin itself.

There needs to be better grounds in the rest of Leinster too, even some basic improvements in some existing ones would do. That can happen too. This doesn't take away from that. Just because it is Dublin, there is the usual opposition to it. If other counties want to develop new facilities or improve their existing ones, then off they go. Some are doing that and some are getting the benefits. Others are doing nothing and then moaning about what others do, particularly about Dublin. There are some good stadiums around the country and there are some that are a disgrace to their county, just left neglected when something could be done.

BonnieSituation

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Seems like more needless waste (if Dublin are 100% paying for it themselves then fine off they go) but I'm not sure it is really necessary for Dublin to have their own stadium when they can use Croke Park.The money could be put to much better use,, same applies to the ridiculously costly development of Pairc Ui Caoimh. There aren't enough big games to justify all these stadia around the country.

But playing in Croke Park is TOO much of an advantage I thought...

Dirty Dingus McGee

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But playing in Croke Park is TOO much of an advantage I thought...

Personally I couldn't give a ****e about that, it's nowhere near as big an advantage as some people say and I'd rather the GAA be more practical in it's spending of money.there are far too many white elephant stadiums as there are.

BonnieSituation

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Personally I couldn't give a ****e about that, it's nowhere near as big an advantage as some people say and I'd rather the GAA be more practical in it's spending of money.there are far too many white elephant stadiums as there are.

Completely agree that there are too many stadia. But I hardly think the Dublin training complex with a 25k stadium attached will be as big a white elephant as you might think. With all the money swimming around us now it isn't a bad idea to invest it in facilities. It's hardly like we're Longford and will spunk money on a Stadium with a sinking stand now is it.

I think it's a great plan and if completed in full (which it won't be cos it's Ireland and we have a complete inability to forward plan).

Dirty Dingus McGee

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Completely agree that there are too many stadia. But I hardly think the Dublin training complex with a 25k stadium attached will be as big a white elephant as you might think. With all the money swimming around us now it isn't a bad idea to invest it in facilities. It's hardly like we're Longford and will spunk money on a Stadium with a sinking stand now is it.

I think it's a great plan and if completed in full (which it won't be cos it's Ireland and we have a complete inability to forward plan).

Maybe it won't be but do they really need to put the money into the stadium, why not just have the training complex.

I think they were going to build a stadium like that I would think a stadium on the northside would be better and it could be shared between Dublin,Meath and Louth instead of Meath and Louth wasting money developing their own grounds that will never be used.

BonnieSituation

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Maybe it won't be but do they really need to put the money into the stadium, why not just have the training complex.

I think they were going to build a stadium like that I would think a stadium on the northside would be better and it could be shared between Dublin,Meath and Louth instead of Meath and Louth wasting money developing their own grounds that will never be used.

Bjt sharing a stadium with either of those counties will never happen so why bother going down that route. Tbf Louth and Meath are counties that actually could do with stadia of their own. It's the likes of Roscommon, Longford and Westmeath etc who need to pool resources.

Joe Hill

Well they can use the spawell for dublin south and Parnell for dublin north for when they do divide up our county..........

Just saying

Tom.D.BJJ

Joe Hill wrote: »

Well they can use the spawell for dublin south and Parnell for dublin north for when they do divide up our county..........

Just saying

That won't happen because the better players of the current crop are mostly northsiders. It might come up again if it swings in the opposite direction.

On topic though, what's wrong with Parnell pk?

ProudDUB

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

That won't happen because the better players of the current crop are mostly northsiders. It might come up again if it swings in the opposite direction.

On topic though, what's wrong with Parnell pk?

Can only hold 9000 odd.

PARlance

ProudDUB wrote: »

Can only hold 9000 odd.

Dublin should really have a decent County ground (Just pay for it yourselves). Whatever about the County Team (and just how much they use or don't use it), Club teams and players should have a decent stage to compete on.

Is PP a sell out for Club Finals?

Stoner

Ulster GAA reveal new plans for €86 million redevelopment of Casement Park http://the42.ie/3043875


Looks fantastic!

Stoner

All we need now is one for the west.
Near to the Donegal lads so they can use it too when they are pretending not to be nordies. 

I genuinely think there is room for 4 decent stadiums and then smaller local grounds around the 10k or less mark. Keep the four to a decent standard, let them be used for other things because they were designed to be multipurpose etc

But I can't see why CP can't be the Leinster venue

threeball

Stoner wrote: »

All we need now is one for the west.
Near to the Donegal lads so they can use it too when they are pretending not to be nordies.

I genuinely thing there is room for 4 decent stadiums and then smaller local grounds around the 10k or less mark. Keep the four to a decent standard, let them be used for other things because they were designed to be multipurpose etc

But I can't see why CP can't be the Leinster venue

I've been saying this for years. But casement is the wrong place. No one wants to travel into Belfast with all the hassle and traffic. Better if it was in Omagh or somewhere more Central to the North.
Munster is a basket case with everyone wanting a 40k plus stadium and in the west we have 2 duds (Pearse and McHale with the Hyde well on the way to becoming another dud).
Leinster could really do with a Mini Croker out near Naas or Maynooth, Coonaught have the same (Claremorris would be the best position), Omagh for the north and let Thurles and Cork squabble amongst themselves to see who gets the Munster gig. Then no stadium over 10k should be built an any county ever again unless the population and popularity doubles.

€77m for Casement is pi$$in money up against the wall again

BonnieSituation

Dungannon anyone?

You're completely on the money with your assessment there. But everyone wants their boondoggle.

Personally I don't think any funding should be given to any stadia without multisport and municipal funding on the agenda. By all means have some ringfenced if you so wish like CP or Semple or Lansdowne, but there's no need to have 3 * 5000 seater stadia in Athlone (Just plucking a town from the air).

corny

PARlance wrote: »

Is PP a sell out for Club Finals?

Good crowd but normally not turning people away busy AFAIK. Ballymun and Vincents final 2 or 3 years ago was heaving but would you get 25,000 going to it? Never.

ProudDUB

Any final involving Vincents will draw a big crowd, which is understandable really, seeing as they are practically across the road from PP. The 2014 (?) final with them and Plunketts drew a big crowd too. It was as packed as I've seen it for a club game, but they were still letting people in at half time, so it wasn't an official full house. I'd say the BK semi final, will draw an even bigger crowd than the final.

munchkin_utd

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Dungannon anyone?

You're completely on the money with your assessment there. But everyone wants their boondoggle.

Personally I don't think any funding should be given to any stadia without multisport and municipal funding on the agenda.<snip>

but casement is getting a heap of cash from the northern ireland government (65million stg), and the multisport aspect is dealt with in that Windsor and Kingspan park also got tens of millions.
They tried to get a single multisport stadium by the former maze prison, right by the M1 and right on a rail line, but for all sorts of reasons nobody was happy with the idea except the GAA.

I see there's a number of public transport conditions attached to the casement redevopment, i.e. park and rides & coach travel as part of the ticket price, so (keeping a little more on topic!) it might be an example for future GAA stadium development like the proposed new stadium in South Dublin

Bunny Colvin

Flukey wrote: »

Earth. How about you? Maybe you are not familiar with Earth. On it is a country called Ireland. In it is a county called Dublin. In it is a GAA ground known as Parnell Park. It is Dublin's home ground. In 2004, Dublin played a championship match in it, but none since then. Anyway, back to talking about a new facility to be developed in Dublin.

FFS, stop embarrassing yourself. Croke Park is in Dublin, that's your home ground. Say it like it is.

BonnieSituation

munchkin_utd wrote: »

but casement is getting a heap of cash from the northern ireland government (65million stg), and the multisport aspect is dealt with in that Windsor and Kingspan park also got tens of millions.
They tried to get a single multisport stadium by the former maze prison, right by the M1 and right on a rail line, but for all sorts of reasons nobody was happy with the idea except the GAA.

I see there's a number of public transport conditions attached to the casement redevopment, i.e. park and rides & coach travel as part of the ticket price, so (keeping a little more on topic!) it might be an example for future GAA stadium development like the proposed new stadium in South Dublin

I'm well aware of that. I was really going on about the rest of the Country. The provincial Stadium in Antrim was always going to be special case.

Stoner

Bunny Colvin wrote:

FFS, stop embarrassing yourself. Croke Park is in Dublin, that's your home ground. Say it like it is.

I know that this is something Flukey feels very strongly about
To a degree that he's convinced me to recognise it.

It's CP is not ot really Dublin's home ground the way McHale park is for Mayo. Many teams are familiar with playing there, hill 16 is not Dublin only etc you'll hear that too come big game time.

I'm not opening up a can of worms here, I'd like to recognise Flukeys point, but for the good of the game I wouldn't act on it.

There is no need for a HQ only used for finals imo. If any of these provincial stadiums are in a county then that should be the main ground for that county too and the surrounding counties should suck it up so long as it was chosen fairly . It appears for example reading here that casement park is the right ground in the wrong place, possibly like CP

At the end of the day. For many (not me these days) Hill 16 is where the Dubs support the team. That's tradition encouraged by Heffo in recognition of " Jackeens and Culchies" being different and catering for it by trying to create a Kop because there is a lot of soccer played in Dublin, street games as Brendan Behan said, sometimes kid from Dublin would have more in common with a kid from London than rural Ireland. 14 year old me didn't like that when I read it but 18 year old me got it

But rural Ireland is disappearing. We only have so many people in the country and imo you shouldn't have to make it to CP to experience the best facilities for fans and players wrt comfort, technology and amenities.

Leave the Dubs in CP. That's where my memories are. Let them use the Hill because it worked out that way because it suited everyone and it's part of our game now.

Spend the money on getting things up to scratch in a place that suits people travelling to games.

From reading this Flukey travels to games all over the country he is a genuine supporter , when you are in that frame of mind you'd go anywhere , but there are plenty who don't travel all over Ireland and I think attendance would improve at games if people had to travel less, and when they got there they could park, eat, be dry and change a nappy,!

Dots1982

The thing is you can say that there isn't enough of a crowd for club games for this stadium which is the case if you look at the crowds going to PP but that disregards that if there is a nice modern atmospheric stadium it will become far more of a desired event to attend.

The GAA are growing the sport by improving their stadium infrastructure (Pairc ui Caoimh, Casement, the Spawell). It's a good strategy and is much needed.

People who go on about white elephants and wastes of money are being short sighted. You can't ask people to attend stadiums largely built in the 1950's to 1970's. These days you need to appeal to families, people who just want a night out with a beer and a hamburger and the way to do that is through modern facilities and creating an event culture.

ProudDUB

Dots1982 wrote: »

The thing is you can say that there isn't enough of a crowd for club games for this stadium which is the case if you look at the crowds going to PP but that disregards that if there is a nice modern atmospheric stadium it will become far more of a desired event to attend.

The GAA are growing the sport by improving their stadium infrastructure (Pairc ui Caoimh, Casement, the Spawell). It's a good strategy and is much needed.

People who go on about white elephants and wastes of money are being short sighted. You can't ask people to attend stadiums largely built in the 1950's to 1970's. These days you need to appeal to families, people who just want a night out with a beer and a hamburger and the way to do that is through modern facilities and creating an event culture.

That's all well and good, but where do you draw the line? Where do you say that one county should have modern facilities to promote an event culture, but another county should not? In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, all 32 counties should have a modern state of the art facility. If Cork gets one, why shouldn't Leitrim, or Carlow, or feckit, the Aran Islands, get one too?

At the end of the day, there aren't unlimited funds available to built new stadia, or renovate all the old ones to a high level. So criteria such as how much use will a new stadium get, how many big games will it host etc etc should be in place, before building projects are green lit. Tough questions should be asked & if people don't like that....too bad !

If we don't, more white elephants (and the new Pairc will be one imo) will just proliferate.

corny

Dots1982 wrote: »

The thing is you can say that there isn't enough of a crowd for club games for this stadium which is the case if you look at the crowds going to PP but that disregards that if there is a nice modern atmospheric stadium it will become far more of a desired event to attend.

The GAA are growing the sport by improving their stadium infrastructure (Pairc ui Caoimh, Casement, the Spawell). It's a good strategy and is much needed.

People who go on about white elephants and wastes of money are being short sighted. You can't ask people to attend stadiums largely built in the 1950's to 1970's. These days you need to appeal to families, people who just want a night out with a beer and a hamburger and the way to do that is through modern facilities and creating an event culture.

Even in a time when GAA is thriving in Dublin could you see 25,000 people attending any club game in Dublin? The core element will go to games no matter where they're held. You might get a few extras who like the look of the scenery but no way will they amount to 15,000 more. In 5 years time when Dublin join the pack and aren't the winning ticket anymore you'll find it even harder to reach 25,000.

Also, if your argument were true people would be flocking to Croke Park in the Spring to watch Dublin. Good stadium, a beer, a hamburger, anything you like. As it is, despite the aggressive advertising and successful team, the attendance is falling each year. In line with whats happening throughout the GAA i might add.

Dots1982

ProudDUB wrote: »

That's all well and good, but where do you draw the line? Where do you say that one county should have modern facilities to promote an event culture, but another county should not? In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, all 32 counties should have a modern state of the art facility. If Cork gets one, why shouldn't Leitrim, or Carlow, or feckit, the Aran Islands, get one too?

At the end of the day, there aren't unlimited funds available to built new stadia, or renovate all the old ones to a high level. So criteria such as how much use will a new stadium get, how many big games will it host etc etc should be in place, before building projects are green lit. Tough questions should be asked & if people don't like that....too bad !

If we don't, more white elephants (and the new Pairc will be one imo) will just proliferate.

A modern stadium for each province built in the biggest cities seems seems acceptable.

Don't know where you get the idea that Leitrim is going to start demanding a 25k stadium because one is built in the largest urban centres....Jesus Christ :rolleyes: frankly.

threeball

munchkin_utd wrote: »

but casement is getting a heap of cash from the northern ireland government (65million stg), and the multisport aspect is dealt with in that Windsor and Kingspan park also got tens of millions.
They tried to get a single multisport stadium by the former maze prison, right by the M1 and right on a rail line, but for all sorts of reasons nobody was happy with the idea except the GAA.

I see there's a number of public transport conditions attached to the casement redevopment, i.e. park and rides & coach travel as part of the ticket price, so (keeping a little more on topic!) it might be an example for future GAA stadium development like the proposed new stadium in South Dublin

Doesn't matter how much funding its getting if its going to be a millstone round the neck of the association for the next 100yrs. No one wants to use it, no one will use it. Another 2 game a year stadium with the tumbleweeds blowing through for 363 days.
Its like this rugby world cup where all of a sudden the GAA/government will be piling money into stadiums so the rugby crowd can have their show piece and we're left servicing the cost of running the poxy white elephants.
The money they could put into grassroots is frightening if the mickey swinging could be called to a halt.

threeball

Dots1982 wrote: »

The thing is you can say that there isn't enough of a crowd for club games for this stadium which is the case if you look at the crowds going to PP but that disregards that if there is a nice modern atmospheric stadium it will become far more of a desired event to attend.

The GAA are growing the sport by improving their stadium infrastructure (Pairc ui Caoimh, Casement, the Spawell). It's a good strategy and is much needed.

People who go on about white elephants and wastes of money are being short sighted. You can't ask people to attend stadiums largely built in the 1950's to 1970's. These days you need to appeal to families, people who just want a night out with a beer and a hamburger and the way to do that is through modern facilities and creating an event culture.

No one is arguing that counties shouldn't have nice stadiums, its the size of the stadiums that's in dispute. 7-10,000 is more than enough for 95% of counties. Build it well, have good facilities and build an atmosphere around the games. That's how you build a product. Look at rugby. Leinster started in Donnybrook, moved to RDS and play games in the Aviva when needed. They didn't build the Aviva and then stick Leinster in there regardless of the game as the atmosphere would suck and the product would suffer.
Connaught only has 7000 but the place is hopping and people climbing over one another for tickets. That's far more desirable than 5000 in a 30k capacity ground with nothing but bare concrete for company

WindomEarle

This would be about 5 minutes away from Tallaght Stadium used by Shamrock Rovers, right?

homerjay2005

Stoner wrote: »

But I can't see why CP can't be the Leinster venue

i guess Croke Park probably costs too much to open for crowds of 15,000-20,000.

Past30Now

WindomEarle wrote: »

This would be about 5 minutes away from Tallaght Stadium used by Shamrock Rovers, right?

That's right. Bad planning in the past should encourage us to make less mistakes in the future.

The idea of a 25,000 all seater stadium in Dublin makes sense, but only if it is used regularly. My definition of used regularly is by ensuring it's 50%+ filled 15 - 20 times a year. The only way that is going to happen is by partnering with other sports, i.e. Soccer and Rugby, or other counties.

Leinster seem to have their house in order with Donnybrook, RDS and Aviva available to them, depending on the nature of the match. You could argue that the RDS is less than perfect, but it's imperfections are masked by the fact of it's location in the heart of rugby's home in Dublin.

From a soccer perspective, the numbers are worse. Less than 1,000 people went out last Monday week to see Dundalk and Cork play in their respective fixtures (Clashed w Utd/Pool). Bohs and Shels are teaming up with Dublin City Council to redevelop Dalymount. Rovers have their home in Tallaght. Average attendances in 2016 in the league are around 1,600. Of the Dublin clubs, only Bohs and Rovers exceed that average.

Realistically neither soccer, nor rugby, offer a suitable partnership option for the GAA.

The only alternative is to partner with our neighbours within the GAA (Kildare, Wicklow, Meath, Louth). A Leinster GAA stadium in North East Kildare, or South East Meath, for the use of Dublin, Meath and Kildare would probably be more suitable. However no matter where it's located, it's use will be objected to by participating counties on the basis that it's difficult to reach from the opposite ends of the county.

Using the Spawell site as a southside equivalent of the Abbottstown from a training pitch and game pitch perspective, is a good idea. Whether there is any need for a 25K all seater to go with it needs serious examination.

MayoAreMagic

Paulzx wrote: »

What's the Dublin County Board got to do with building houses????

I'm confused

Nothing. The point was they don't need this vanity project, and the place they were going to buy to build it could be put to much better use.

Paulzx

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nothing. The point was they don't need this vanity project, and the place they were going to buy to build it could be put to much better use.

It's a completely spurious comparison. There are plenty of negatives about this plan but your one is irrellavent. There's no shortage of zoned building land in Dublin. The problem is developers wont build on it until the house prices go higher.

The Dublin County Board doesn't need to nor should it make a decision on the Spawell project on the basis of housing needs. It needs to make it's decision on the bases of GAA needs.

MayoAreMagic

Paulzx wrote: »

It's a completely spurious comparison. There are plenty of negatives about this plan but your one is irrellavent. There's no shortage of zoned building land in Dublin. The problem is developers wont build on it until the house prices go higher.

The Dublin County Board doesn't need to nor should it make a decision on the Spawell project on the basis of housing needs. It needs to make it's decision on the bases of GAA needs.

It isn't spurious it is just taking a look at the bigger picture. The gaa is supposed to be the game of the people. Well spending a shedload of the people's money on a vanity project that there is no need for, in a place that could be used to help relieve one of the biggest issues that those same people are facing, doesn't seem like a very gaa-esque thing to do.

But Im not suggesting that Dublin county board build houses. Im suggesting that they realise they don't actually need this in the slightest, and maybe redirect the money to clubs and club projects where it is actually needed - those same clubs that raised a large percentage of it in the first place by the way.

Although, when you think about it, isn't something like building houses exactly what the gaa (all gaa, not Dublin before you say it) should be looking to get involved in? Wouldn't that be in line with the whole amateur ethos, i.e. put something back into the community? Man city are building 6000 homes in Manchester, and that money is coming from the gulf. We raised the money the gaa is operating on. Maybe a breakeven/small profit project for the benefit of the people is in fact exactly what they should be doing...

Jaden

It's simply a case of Dublin either:

(a) playing all home games in the league and championship in Croke park,
or
(b) Building a stadium that fulfils this requirement and playing there.

I see the DCB have gone for option (b), seems reasonable to me.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

It's simply a case of Dublin either:

(a) playing all home games in the league and championship in Croke park,
or
(b) Building a stadium that fulfils this requirement and playing there.

I see the DCB have gone for option (b), seems reasonable to me.

Would you not think option (a) (with the condition that the money is spent on the clubs instead) would be a far better option for all involved? Especially when you consider that the championship games will be in croke park anyway, as the new stadium will only hold 25000... It seems like a lot to spend on a place to play about 3 league games and maybe one championship games a year...

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Would you not think option (a) (with the condition that the money is spent on the clubs instead) would be a far better option for all involved? Especially when you consider that the championship games will be in croke park anyway, as the new stadium will only hold 25000... It seems like a lot to spend on a place to play about 3 league games and maybe one championship games a year...

No, I don't think that. I think a fit for purpose county ground for Dublin is a good idea. Not having one is something that has never sat well with me personally.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

No, I don't think that. I think a fit for purpose county ground for Dublin is a good idea. Not having one is something that has never sat well with me personally.

So you are willing to forgo massive meaningful investment for clubs who need it, to instead waste the sum on building something that there is 0% requirement or need for, because of how it sat with you...

kim jong-un was never in it...

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you are willing to forgo massive meaningful investment for clubs who need it, to instead waste the sum on building something that there is 0% requirement or need for, because of how it sat with you...

kim jong-un was never in it...

I see. So agreeing with a County Board on a strategic decision they have planned for and made, concerning development of a county ground for that county, is akin to being a dictator? A smidge of a leap there, but whatever makes you happy.

Have you considered running for GAA president, (with maybe chairman of the DCB as an interim step)?

I assume now that we as a county have been suitably castigated by your good self, that you will now post your dire objections to the circa 12 Million redevelopment of McHale Park - money that could have been better used to develop Mayo Hurling?

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

I see. So agreeing with a County Board on a strategic decision they have planned for and made, concerning development of a county ground for that county, is akin to being a dictator? A smidge of a leap there, but whatever makes you happy.

Have you considered running for GAA president, (with maybe chairman of the DCB as an interim step)?

I assume now that we as a county have been suitably castigated by your good self, that you will now post your dire objections to the circa 12 Million redevelopment of McHale Park - money that could have been better used to develop Mayo Hurling?

Why do you agree with them though? I don't really care about hearing what someone else thinks - why they think it is what is important. Can you go into that? Ive given you the reasons why it doesn't make sense. You would really need to counter these to be taken seriously...

As for redeveloping McHale park, unfortunately this was upkeep that was required on the ground and that comes with the territory of having an old stadium. Did they spend too much? Well maybe, I know Id have been more frugal on that front, but regardless of that, they would still have had to spend a sizeable amount. However, if croke park was in mayo, Id have no interest in spending money on a different stadium to be honest with you. Why waste it?

CatInABox

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you agree with them though? I don't really care about hearing what someone else thinks - why they think it is what is important. Can you go into that? Ive given you the reasons why it doesn't make sense. You would really need to counter these to be taken seriously...

Just on this, you've not actually given the reasons why it doesn't make sense, you've given your opinion on why you think it doesn't make sense. They're two very different things.

In my opinion, the development of a new stadium and associated Centre of Excellence does make a lot of sense, indeed, clubs through-out Dublin will be able to avail of the facilities.

There's also the fact that barring the senior football team, most of the Dublin teams will struggle to fill Croke Park for anything but the biggest games. Parnell Park is too small, and Croke Park is far too large, but the hurlers and the ladies are thrown in there regardless, and a half (or even mostly) empty stadium really sucks the atmosphere and support from a match.

MayoAreMagic

CatInABox wrote: »

Just on this, you've not actually given the reasons why it doesn't make sense, you've given your opinion on why you think it doesn't make sense. They're two very different things.

My opinion, backed up with pretty solid logic. Im not stating it as fact, but obviously anyone debating it would need to be countering that solid logic. If that were to happen then fine, Id accept that. That hasn't happened yet though.

CatInABox wrote: »

In my opinion, the development of a new stadium and associated Centre of Excellence does make a lot of sense, indeed, clubs through-out Dublin will be able to avail of the facilities.

First off, is there definitely a COE in the plan? I have heard mixed reports. Secondly, there is already a brand new centre of excellence in Dublin... Why cant they just avail of that one?

CatInABox wrote: »

There's also the fact that barring the senior football team, most of the Dublin teams will struggle to fill Croke Park for anything but the biggest games. Parnell Park is too small, and Croke Park is far too large, but the hurlers and the ladies are thrown in there regardless, and a half (or even mostly) empty stadium really sucks the atmosphere and support from a match.

Well that may be the case, but getting a bit of a better atmosphere is hardly worth all that cash in fairness is it? Im sure clubs could put that money to much better use than generating a bit of an atmosphere at the few games that will bring in too big a crowd for parnell park... Like you would want around 18,000 in a 25,000 stadium to create a decent atmosphere, how many games will generate this?
Mayo club finals are played in McHale park, and that wont be filled or anywhere near it, but everyone goes to the stand and the atmosphere isn't too bad when everyone is together. That definitely isn't reason to build a second stadium though. How often does Parnell park actually sell out for club games etc, out of interest?