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The Spawell complex for Dublin GAA - back on the agenda

  • 22-10-2016 10:47am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,987 ✭✭✭✭ Flukey
    Registered User


    Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

    It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭ Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered User


    Flukey wrote: »
    Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

    It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.

    And thus the thread will descend into a Croke Park debate.

    But before it does.
    Yea a good medium capacity ground in Dublin, easy to get to from the rest of Leinster would be a very good idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭ Bunny Colvin
    Registered User


    Flukey wrote: »
    Dublin GAA stadium back on agenda as County Board push for 25,000-capacity home

    It could be a good idea if done properly. Parking could be an issue. It is near the M50, but could still be awkward to get to by public transport. A limited amount of buses there. The Luas is nearish. It would need a lot of planning to get it right. League games could go there, whatever about bigger championship matches. It is now 12 years since Dublin had a home game in the championship, so if this were to be built and be made our home, there is a slight chance that the long wait for one will end if one of the early round ones was there.

    What planet are you living on on :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    Seems like more needless waste (if Dublin are 100% paying for it themselves then fine off they go) but I'm not sure it is really necessary for Dublin to have their own stadium when they can use Croke Park.The money could be put to much better use,, same applies to the ridiculously costly development of Pairc Ui Caoimh. There aren't enough big games to justify all these stadia around the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭ corny
    Registered User


    Whats the point? The GAA won't let them play there in the championship. If its not Croke Park its Nowlan Park for one game.

    If its built for 3 or 4 league games per year the county board need their heads examined.

    Had to laugh at the article "Spawell, which has the advantage of being located on the southside". Guess we know where the author comes from.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    ah yes, more facilities for Dublin

    that will help


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner
    Moderator


    corny wrote:
    Whats the point? The GAA won't let them play there in the championship. If its not Croke Park its Nowlan Park for one game.

    I agree. I don't see the point. It won't be used

    I see playing in CP as playing at home because it's down the road for me and I'm home in no time.
    I don't particularly like Parnell park, but it does the trick when used correctly.

    Yes it's a ground that many teams are very familiar with but it is what it is

    The money IMO would be better spent making sure we had a decent ground in each Provence. We'll have that in Leinster and Munster, sort the other two so that all teams and fans have a quality stadium to go to relatively locally. Have Hawkeye in them all and enough refs to control a game with video playback support


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,797 ✭✭✭✭ PARlance
    Registered User


    Flukey wrote: »

    I can't see how parking would be an issue with that site, ample space to serve a 25,000 stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭ ArielAtom
    Registered User


    This could be fun. Will we see the argument develop as described by one poster of "sure they have the use of Croker" and the posters who have said that the use of Croker is a big advantage to the Dubs.

    I think its a great idea. More of an atmosphere for Dublin matches with a full 25/35k stadium than a 1/3rd full Croker. Easy acces for all of Dublin plus Leinster from the M50. But can everyone see past the Dubs shure they get everything???


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ ProudDUB
    Registered User


    Mixed feelings about it really. A large part of that, is pure selfishness. Right now, I can drive/bus/Dart it to PP and Croker in 15/25 mins. Getting out to Lucan is a bit of a trek, for me. I'm willing to soldier on, but will other who are used to the ease of access to both PP and Croker? Will people stay away, when the craic factor and the usual rituals of meeting your friends for beers in the pubs around Croker, or in the Croke Park Hotel, will be no more? It has happened in the States, when city authorities moved stadiums out of their old traditional neighbourhoods and, out to rather souless motorway exits.

    It is a massive amount of money. I think I'd prefer to see it be reinvested in people and facilitites at groundroots and club level, be they better club facilities, equipment, more pitches (especially between the canals,) more Games Development Officers etc etc. People bang on about us having GPO's in the first place, but when you equate them to one GPO per the sheer number of kids in some clubs, they are spread very, very thin.

    Realistically, how many games will be played there, that will warrant the expense? The latter stages of the AI champo will never be moved out of Croker. The Leinster Final will never be moved out of Croker. I can't even see the Leinster semifinal double header being moved out of Croker. So that just leaves one championship game. Plus 3/4 league games in the football. It's difficult to know how much the hulers warrant being a part of the conversation. They (sadly) do not draw huge crowds and let's be brutally honest here, they probably never will, not until they start winning and winning consistantly.

    If the GAA/Leinster Council, want another mid size stadium, that is within easy reach of the M50 for other counties, then they should be paying for it, not us.

    Public transport out to Spawell on Sundays and Saturday evenings isn't great. Won't be a problem for us Dubs, the trip will be just be longer for us. We'll have to get a bus into town and a bus out again, but it's still doable. How user friendly will it be for someone coming up from the country and are relying on public transport? I can see that impacting league attendances badly. Or maybe it will make it easier on people, as they can easily drive to and park at the game. We'll have to wait and see there.

    I'm not convinced the new facility will have adequate parking. No disrespect to the DCB, but the the GAA and the country in general, has a piss poor record of providing adequate parking for public faciliites, as well a decent access/exit roads, that don't lead to serious traffic problems on the way in and out. I remain to be convinced there.

    I'm not against the idea of a mid size stadium out in Spawell, in theory. Just as I am not against the idea of Cork, having the second best, or biggest stadium in the country, after Croker. But when you consider the over all cost, the over all number of games that will be played there, the words white elephant come to mind, especially when you think of how much better the money could be spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,987 ✭✭✭✭ Flukey
    Registered User


    What planet are you living on on :D

    Earth. How about you? Maybe you are not familiar with Earth. On it is a country called Ireland. In it is a county called Dublin. In it is a GAA ground known as Parnell Park. It is Dublin's home ground. In 2004, Dublin played a championship match in it, but none since then. Anyway, back to talking about a new facility to be developed in Dublin.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,987 ✭✭✭✭ Flukey
    Registered User


    The pitch could mostly be used for Dublin's home league games and maybe an early championship match and some matches between other counties and some club championship matches. So it could get good use. The overall development will have other facilities for training and other things. It has great potential if developed properly, with value for Dublin and for Leinster and even beyond. So it is not just about the pitch itself and it is not just about Dublin itself.

    There needs to be better grounds in the rest of Leinster too, even some basic improvements in some existing ones would do. That can happen too. This doesn't take away from that. Just because it is Dublin, there is the usual opposition to it. If other counties want to develop new facilities or improve their existing ones, then off they go. Some are doing that and some are getting the benefits. Others are doing nothing and then moaning about what others do, particularly about Dublin. There are some good stadiums around the country and there are some that are a disgrace to their county, just left neglected when something could be done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    Seems like more needless waste (if Dublin are 100% paying for it themselves then fine off they go) but I'm not sure it is really necessary for Dublin to have their own stadium when they can use Croke Park.The money could be put to much better use,, same applies to the ridiculously costly development of Pairc Ui Caoimh. There aren't enough big games to justify all these stadia around the country.

    But playing in Croke Park is TOO much of an advantage I thought...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    But playing in Croke Park is TOO much of an advantage I thought...


    Personally I couldn't give a ****e about that, it's nowhere near as big an advantage as some people say and I'd rather the GAA be more practical in it's spending of money.there are far too many white elephant stadiums as there are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    Personally I couldn't give a ****e about that, it's nowhere near as big an advantage as some people say and I'd rather the GAA be more practical in it's spending of money.there are far too many white elephant stadiums as there are.

    Completely agree that there are too many stadia. But I hardly think the Dublin training complex with a 25k stadium attached will be as big a white elephant as you might think. With all the money swimming around us now it isn't a bad idea to invest it in facilities. It's hardly like we're Longford and will spunk money on a Stadium with a sinking stand now is it.

    I think it's a great plan and if completed in full (which it won't be cos it's Ireland and we have a complete inability to forward plan).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    Completely agree that there are too many stadia. But I hardly think the Dublin training complex with a 25k stadium attached will be as big a white elephant as you might think. With all the money swimming around us now it isn't a bad idea to invest it in facilities. It's hardly like we're Longford and will spunk money on a Stadium with a sinking stand now is it.

    I think it's a great plan and if completed in full (which it won't be cos it's Ireland and we have a complete inability to forward plan).

    Maybe it won't be but do they really need to put the money into the stadium, why not just have the training complex.

    I think they were going to build a stadium like that I would think a stadium on the northside would be better and it could be shared between Dublin,Meath and Louth instead of Meath and Louth wasting money developing their own grounds that will never be used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    Maybe it won't be but do they really need to put the money into the stadium, why not just have the training complex.

    I think they were going to build a stadium like that I would think a stadium on the northside would be better and it could be shared between Dublin,Meath and Louth instead of Meath and Louth wasting money developing their own grounds that will never be used.

    Bjt sharing a stadium with either of those counties will never happen so why bother going down that route. Tbf Louth and Meath are counties that actually could do with stadia of their own. It's the likes of Roscommon, Longford and Westmeath etc who need to pool resources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ Joe Hill
    Registered User


    Well they can use the spawell for dublin south and Parnell for dublin north for when they do divide up our county..........

    Just saying


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 Tom.D.BJJ


    Joe Hill wrote: »
    Well they can use the spawell for dublin south and Parnell for dublin north for when they do divide up our county..........

    Just saying

    That won't happen because the better players of the current crop are mostly northsiders. It might come up again if it swings in the opposite direction.

    On topic though, what's wrong with Parnell pk?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ ProudDUB
    Registered User


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    That won't happen because the better players of the current crop are mostly northsiders. It might come up again if it swings in the opposite direction.

    On topic though, what's wrong with Parnell pk?

    Can only hold 9000 odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,797 ✭✭✭✭ PARlance
    Registered User


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Can only hold 9000 odd.

    Dublin should really have a decent County ground (Just pay for it yourselves). Whatever about the County Team (and just how much they use or don't use it), Club teams and players should have a decent stage to compete on.

    Is PP a sell out for Club Finals?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner
    Moderator


    Ulster GAA reveal new plans for €86 million redevelopment of Casement Park http://the42.ie/3043875


    Looks fantastic!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner
    Moderator


    All we need now is one for the west.
    Near to the Donegal lads so they can use it too when they are pretending not to be nordies. 

    I genuinely think there is room for 4 decent stadiums and then smaller local grounds around the 10k or less mark. Keep the four to a decent standard, let them be used for other things because they were designed to be multipurpose etc

    But I can't see why CP can't be the Leinster venue


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭ threeball
    Registered User


    Stoner wrote: »
    All we need now is one for the west.
    Near to the Donegal lads so they can use it too when they are pretending not to be nordies. :)

    I genuinely thing there is room for 4 decent stadiums and then smaller local grounds around the 10k or less mark. Keep the four to a decent standard, let them be used for other things because they were designed to be multipurpose etc

    But I can't see why CP can't be the Leinster venue

    I've been saying this for years. But casement is the wrong place. No one wants to travel into Belfast with all the hassle and traffic. Better if it was in Omagh or somewhere more Central to the North.
    Munster is a basket case with everyone wanting a 40k plus stadium and in the west we have 2 duds (Pearse and McHale with the Hyde well on the way to becoming another dud).
    Leinster could really do with a Mini Croker out near Naas or Maynooth, Coonaught have the same (Claremorris would be the best position), Omagh for the north and let Thurles and Cork squabble amongst themselves to see who gets the Munster gig. Then no stadium over 10k should be built an any county ever again unless the population and popularity doubles.

    €77m for Casement is pi$$in money up against the wall again


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    Dungannon anyone?

    You're completely on the money with your assessment there. But everyone wants their boondoggle.

    Personally I don't think any funding should be given to any stadia without multisport and municipal funding on the agenda. By all means have some ringfenced if you so wish like CP or Semple or Lansdowne, but there's no need to have 3 * 5000 seater stadia in Athlone (Just plucking a town from the air).


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭ corny
    Registered User


    PARlance wrote: »
    Is PP a sell out for Club Finals?

    Good crowd but normally not turning people away busy AFAIK. Ballymun and Vincents final 2 or 3 years ago was heaving but would you get 25,000 going to it? Never.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ ProudDUB
    Registered User


    Any final involving Vincents will draw a big crowd, which is understandable really, seeing as they are practically across the road from PP. The 2014 (?) final with them and Plunketts drew a big crowd too. It was as packed as I've seen it for a club game, but they were still letting people in at half time, so it wasn't an official full house. I'd say the BK semi final, will draw an even bigger crowd than the final.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,530 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd
    Registered User


    Dungannon anyone?

    You're completely on the money with your assessment there. But everyone wants their boondoggle.

    Personally I don't think any funding should be given to any stadia without multisport and municipal funding on the agenda.<snip>
    but casement is getting a heap of cash from the northern ireland government (65million stg), and the multisport aspect is dealt with in that Windsor and Kingspan park also got tens of millions.
    They tried to get a single multisport stadium by the former maze prison, right by the M1 and right on a rail line, but for all sorts of reasons nobody was happy with the idea except the GAA.

    I see there's a number of public transport conditions attached to the casement redevopment, i.e. park and rides & coach travel as part of the ticket price, so (keeping a little more on topic!) it might be an example for future GAA stadium development like the proposed new stadium in South Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭ Bunny Colvin
    Registered User


    Flukey wrote: »
    Earth. How about you? Maybe you are not familiar with Earth. On it is a country called Ireland. In it is a county called Dublin. In it is a GAA ground known as Parnell Park. It is Dublin's home ground. In 2004, Dublin played a championship match in it, but none since then. Anyway, back to talking about a new facility to be developed in Dublin.

    FFS, stop embarrassing yourself. Croke Park is in Dublin, that's your home ground. Say it like it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    but casement is getting a heap of cash from the northern ireland government (65million stg), and the multisport aspect is dealt with in that Windsor and Kingspan park also got tens of millions.
    They tried to get a single multisport stadium by the former maze prison, right by the M1 and right on a rail line, but for all sorts of reasons nobody was happy with the idea except the GAA.

    I see there's a number of public transport conditions attached to the casement redevopment, i.e. park and rides & coach travel as part of the ticket price, so (keeping a little more on topic!) it might be an example for future GAA stadium development like the proposed new stadium in South Dublin

    I'm well aware of that. I was really going on about the rest of the Country. The provincial Stadium in Antrim was always going to be special case.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner
    Moderator


    FFS, stop embarrassing yourself. Croke Park is in Dublin, that's your home ground. Say it like it is.

    I know that this is something Flukey feels very strongly about
    To a degree that he's convinced me to recognise it.

    It's CP is not ot really Dublin's home ground the way McHale park is for Mayo. Many teams are familiar with playing there, hill 16 is not Dublin only etc you'll hear that too come big game time.

    I'm not opening up a can of worms here, I'd like to recognise Flukeys point, but for the good of the game I wouldn't act on it.

    There is no need for a HQ only used for finals imo. If any of these provincial stadiums are in a county then that should be the main ground for that county too and the surrounding counties should suck it up so long as it was chosen fairly . It appears for example reading here that casement park is the right ground in the wrong place, possibly like CP

    At the end of the day. For many (not me these days) Hill 16 is where the Dubs support the team. That's tradition encouraged by Heffo in recognition of " Jackeens and Culchies" being different and catering for it by trying to create a Kop because there is a lot of soccer played in Dublin, street games as Brendan Behan said, sometimes kid from Dublin would have more in common with a kid from London than rural Ireland. 14 year old me didn't like that when I read it but 18 year old me got it

    But rural Ireland is disappearing. We only have so many people in the country and imo you shouldn't have to make it to CP to experience the best facilities for fans and players wrt comfort, technology and amenities.

    Leave the Dubs in CP. That's where my memories are. Let them use the Hill because it worked out that way because it suited everyone and it's part of our game now.

    Spend the money on getting things up to scratch in a place that suits people travelling to games.

    From reading this Flukey travels to games all over the country he is a genuine supporter , when you are in that frame of mind you'd go anywhere , but there are plenty who don't travel all over Ireland and I think attendance would improve at games if people had to travel less, and when they got there they could park, eat, be dry and change a nappy,!


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