British Cycling and Sky

RobFowl

Wonder if Froome will start TA today? wouldn't be surprised if some BS excuse was used to withdraw him.

RobFowl

RobFowl wrote: »

Wonder if Froome will start TA today? wouldn't be surprised if some BS excuse was used to withdraw him.

That'd be some head start ahead of the rest on Wednesday :P

Kav0777

Deleted User wrote: »

That'd be some head start ahead of the rest on Wednesday :P

Marginal Gains??

velo.2010

Wiggins sticking to his guns. Even the slightest hint of acknowledging that he gamed the system and there would be cries of doping. He has to refuse point blank that he did anything wrong.

There is something about athletes and acknowledgment of doping - even if there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. To them, the use of doping is par for the course (read Hamilton, Armstrong etc) and the real reason for their success is all the hard training and dieting, and sacrificing family and friends to achieve their goal.

When non sports people hear anything to do with doping they assume that person to be lazy or under talented. I believe there is some connection with that and why is so difficult for tainted athletes to come clean and admit it. They feel their talent to be diminished in the eyes of the public notwithstanding the actual violation of anti-doping rules.

seanin4711

seligehgit wrote: »

Any link to the report?Newsnight should be interesting tonight.

Damian Collins and his fellow MPs on the select committee did sport in general a great service with their work on said committee.

The sessions with the various parties Sir David,Shane Sutton and co were both fascinating and comical with the explanations around the infamous jiffy bag.

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2018/03/combatting-doping-in-sport.pdf

RobertKK

Amazing how both Wiggins did and Froome does receive treatment for asthma...

A P

Marginal Stains

A horrid day for sporting knights
Once heroes fallen from great heights

Froome & Brailsford, Mo & Brad
Media coverage makes them sad

Wiggo scaled the Alps with ease
With his pocketful of TUE's

Powerful, yet skin and bone
Thanks to Triamcinolone

Fabricating allergy
Was Team Sky's master strategy

Performances to raise red flags
Marginal gains and jiffy bags

We have to thank the Fancy Bears
For catching Brailsford unawares

Laptops stolen, steroid patches
Fairytale writers have met their matches

Froome slithered up the Pyrenees
Without a care, without a wheeze

Just when things were getting tough
He took that fatal extra puff

Using asthma as a shield
To keep a level playing field

Asthma was his kryptonite
That and a blood-borne parasite

Most of cycling's top contestants
Using Tramadol & decongestants

Farah also caused confusion
With his L-Carnitine infusion

From also-ran to bullet-proof
Dodgy doorbells, sounds like spoof?

Our heroes are such sickly souls
Our emperors have got no clothes

Their legacies are as intact
As their frail respiratory tracts

kevingonewest

A P wrote: »

A horrid day for sporting knights
Once heroes fallen from great heights

Froome & Brailsford, Mo & Brad
Media coverage makes them sad

Wiggo scaled the Alps with ease
With his pocketful of TUE's

Powerful, yet skin and bone
Thanks to Triamcinolone

Fabricating allergy
Was Team Sky's master strategy

Performances to raise red flags
Marginal gains and jiffy bags

We have to thank the Fancy Bears
For catching Brailsford unawares

Laptops stolen, steroid patches
Fairytale writers have met their matches

Froome slithered up the Pyrenees
Without a care, without a wheeze

Just when things were getting tough
He took that fatal extra puff

Using asthma as a shield
To keep a level playing field

Asthma was his kryptonite
That and a blood-borne parasite

Most of cycling's top contestants
Using Tramadol & decongestants

Farah also caused confusion
With his L-Carnitine infusion

From also-ran to bullet-proof
Dodgy doorbells, sounds like spoof?

Our heroes are such sickly souls
Our emperors have got no clothes

Their legacies are as intact
As their frail respiratory tracts

You have got to get this published in a major newpaper.

A P

Thanks! I've decided to call the poem "Marginal Stains"

A P

I might ask Chas & Dave to perform my poem to the tune of their 1984 hit 'Snooker Loopy'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliAPzEsao0

The music video will be shot in the Team Sky van and will feature all of our favourite stars. Humorous scenes will include Bradley Wiggins winking to camera while sniffing a bunch of flowers without sneezing, Froome wearing an inhaler costume holding a copy of the 1963 hit 'Puff the Magic Dragon', and Mo Farah diving behind the sofa every time somebody knocks on the door. I can't see why it can't go all the way to number one.

harringtonp

A P wrote: »

Thanks! I've decided to call the poem "Marginal Stains"

I posted it on our club FB page. Hope you don't mind, its gettings quite a few likes

A P

For those who haven't read them yet, the accounts from Lionel Birnie about his encounters with Brailsford and his time embedded with Team Sky are interesting. He's put up 3 parts so far. He was with the team on Jiffy Bag day.

https://www.lionelbirnie.com/blog/2018/3/5/1dm1u9ioiiygi09k0hsnj8z6c1z7kl

https://www.lionelbirnie.com/blog/2018/3/7/eight-years-covering-team-sky-part-two

https://www.lionelbirnie.com/blog/2018/3/5/eight-years-covering-team-sky-part-3

BowSideChamp

RobertKK wrote: »

Amazing how both Wiggins did and Froome does receive treatment for asthma...

Sport induced asthma. Very common actually and has been extensively studied. Also the treatment hardly provides any performance benefits to non-asthma sufferers.

CantGetNoSleep

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Sport induced asthma. Very common actually and has been extensively studied. Also the treatment hardly provides any performance benefits to non-asthma sufferers.

Aside from losing weight without losing power for some of the drugs

BowSideChamp

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Aside from losing weight without losing power for some of the drugs

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/1/51

MPFGLB

Both Froome and Wiggins have been using asthma medication for the purpose of shedding weight and keeping power (and probably staying strong in Grand Tours)

The HC committee and David Millar and a sway of others know this
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

Of course none of this is illegal as UCI granted the TUEs and SKY could use corticosteroids out of competetion.Why do you think SKY never joined the MPCC (Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible)

What strikes me most about this is how SKY have handled the PR and how they have reacted to the investiagtion. They have been subdued and not proactive in their defense

If it were me and I had been incorrectly accussed of doping I would shout my innoncence from the highest top....but if you know you have stayed on the right side of the law but took advantage of the system ...what do you do then

But again just ike Amstrong you probably think you'll get away with it ...Must have been easy for the smart Brailsford to find and take advantage of the loopholes...Also 'lucky' that not one but 2 riders come along who can benefit from the shredding drugs as not everyone can

CantGetNoSleep

BowSideChamp wrote: »

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/1/51

That is about (a) salbutamol - not likely to be sent over in a jiffy bag given that most cyclists, myself included, would have one on hand in a pockey, and (b) inhaled salbutamol (i.e. almost impossible for Froome to have reached the levels of his failed test while inhaling, especially if he does not inhale during races anymore

Was just thinking today I don't think in the last 2/3 months I've seen any mention of Sky the sponsor in all of this. They certainly wouldn't comment directly but still zero speculation as to whether they could be inclined to pull the plug

Poels today also commented "I am just focused on my training and racing,” Poels said in St Etienne. "I'm ready to lead the team, but I hope Chris and I start the Giro together." Maybe nothing it though.

Kaisr Sose

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Sport induced asthma. Very common actually and has been extensively studied. Also the treatment hardly provides any performance benefits to non-asthma sufferers.

Is that you Dave? Or Brad or Maybe Chris?

You do know if you macro dose on many permitted substances you can get a marginal gain? Have you heard of the benefit of marginal gains? I heard someone say that if you aggregate enough of them, you can secure quite an advantage over also rans that are not chasing marginal gains....

RobFowl

BowSideChamp wrote: »

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/1/51

If Froomey had stuck to inhalers he wouldn't be losing a battle to avoid a long ban ....

fishfoodie

Been thinking about this a bit. Would cycling be better served, if teams weren't permitted team Doctors; or at least not when it came to prescribing medications.

If the only source of medications was a UCI/WADA authorized MD, there'd be no question of teams flying off-the-shelf asthma medication to riders; & there would certainly be no question of that MD losing all records of riders while on holiday in Greece :mad:

There would also be the added advantage of having an independent MD being able to look over riders regularly; so if they spotted an evidence of injections, or bruises that suggested transfusions or IVs .....

RobFowl

There are over 150 countries in the UCI, there are over 1500 pro,s scattered around the world who are almost never in the same place from day to day. How many MDs would Wada have to employ to provide care to them and how would they police a rule to only allow those docs see pro's?

Russman

fishfoodie wrote: »

There would also be the added advantage of having an independent MD being able to look over riders regularly; so if they spotted an evidence of injections, or bruises that suggested transfusions or IVs .....

Cant imagine any doctor accepting that as being part of their role tbh.

conor_mc

fishfoodie wrote: »

Been thinking about this a bit. Would cycling be better served, if teams weren't permitted team Doctors; or at least not when it came to prescribing medications.

If the only source of medications was a UCI/WADA authorized MD, there'd be no question of teams flying off-the-shelf asthma medication to riders; & there would certainly be no question of that MD losing all records of riders while on holiday in Greece :mad:

There would also be the added advantage of having an independent MD being able to look over riders regularly; so if they spotted an evidence of injections, or bruises that suggested transfusions or IVs .....

The problem then would be bribery, etc. The up-side of illegal gains is simply too great to deter cheats.

Now if you could punish teams/doctors for stupidly losing medical records while on holiday in Greece, that might help raise the “ethical” standards!

fishfoodie

RobFowl wrote: »

There are over 150 countries in the UCI, there are over 1500 pro,s scattered around the world who are almost never in the same place from day to day. How many MDs would Wada have to employ to provide care to them and how would they police a rule to only allow those docs see pro's?

Maybe if we restrict the need UCI approved Doctors to when Pros are seeking a TUE; or Professionals competing in the ProTour.

If a Pro can't get to a UCI approved Doc, they can go to their own Doctor, but they can't compete.

I just think we have to recognize that once a Doctor is working for a Pro Team, his professional ethics seem to disappear

RobFowl

fishfoodie wrote: »

Maybe if we restrict the need UCI approved Doctors to when Pros are seeking a TUE; or Professionals competing in the ProTour.

If a Pro can't get to a UCI approved Doc, they can go to their own Doctor, but they can't compete.

I just think we have to recognize that once a Doctor is working for a Pro Team, his professional ethics seem to disappear

That would work well for TUE's especially with World tour and PC teams.
Any rider looking for an TUE to allow use in competition having to attend an approved independent Doc would be a good safeguard.

Doc07

RobFowl wrote: »

That would work well for TUE's especially with World tour and PC teams.
Any rider looking for an TUE to allow use in competition having to attend an approved independent Doc would be a good safeguard.

Brilliant and could actually be done at WT level /TUE only level without much cost. However such an initiative would be resisted as it would expose any dubious practices in the teams and the smoke and mirrors behind most TUE applications. So teams would have to clean up (unlikely unfortunately looking at even a brief history) or avoid the new UCI /TUE system and use their own underground methods and hope for the best.

But the idea of UCI , centrally regulated doctors for TUEs is excellent as most doctors, even experts, haven't a clue about doping or the reasons why athletes use certain drugs. I have spoken to a world expert on the hormone cortisol and the condition called Cushings and he had no idea that cortisol was the main drug of abuse among cyclists for years. Another example would be the ENT surgeon who prescribed Bradley his famous steroid injections for 'allergy season', not realising(which I don't believe) he was prescribing the most famous corticosteroid (kenocort or triamcinolone ever used in cycling in the 70s/80s/90s

TheBlaaMan

Some interesting speculation on the most recent cyclingtips podcast from Shane Stokes as to just how far back this issue with Wiggins may date. Wiggins himself has indicated that the original prescription for medication for his asthma dates to 2009. One could presume that the triamcinolone 'script dates to here too. This coincides with his best ever GT performance of 4th in the Tour, (he previously struggled to make a top 100) and directly reflects the significant weight loss that brought his power:weight ratio into a category that made him a contender.

The significant thing here is that Wiggins was with Garmin in 2009. It was brfore Team Sky ever existed. If he was dabbling in extracting performance enhancements from TUEs back then, it was on his own and reflects on Garmin management and Vaughters knowledge of what wax afoot.

Podcast here, skip forward to c 15mins in

html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/6339696/height/90/theme/custom/autoplay/no/autonext/no/thumbnail/yes/preload/no/no_addthis/no/direction/backward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/87A93A/

elchupanebrey

I can't wait for a resolution to this once and for all. Mostly because I'm tired of trying to pronounce triamcinolone!

RobFowl

elchupanebrey wrote: »

I can't wait for a resolution to this once and for all. Mostly because I'm tired of trying to pronounce triamcinolone!

Try am sin alone

There you go