British Cycling and Sky

RobFowl

I see Ian Drake the Chief executive of BC has just resigned, I wonder if its the start of a snowball effect..

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/37723129

Andalucia

should be, how Brailsford isn't gone already is a mystery

pelevin

Andalucia wrote: »

should be, how Brailsford isn't gone already is a mystery

Brailsford hasn't gone because Sky are doing, have been doing, and are continuing to do things the right way, and if the right way has become as it were diverted to a tangent of a certain degree of angle to the direction it had been traversing, then this is in a sense, and a very real tangible sense, and you will of course agree with me here, a consequence of the evolution of our ongoing dynamic at Sky of upwards progression to a heightened realisation of what this right way of doing things can be in a more perfectly realised and ever-unfolding future. Noone is perfect, even us, and I never claimed we were, but what I do claim is perfection is the goal to which we are always striving, and we will never rest until this striving is as it were distilled and encased within tangible forms that one can touch in the real world, and as our knowledge grows, this will very much be the case. And you can quote me on that.

Those are of course Dave's own words.

TheBlaaMan

pelevin wrote: »

Brailsford hasn't gone because Sky are doing, have been doing, and are continuing to do things the right way, and if the right way has become as it were diverted to a tangent of a certain degree of angle to the direction it had been traversing, then this is in a sense, and a very real tangible sense, and you will of course agree with me here, a consequence of the evolution of our ongoing dynamic at Sky of upwards progression to a heightened realisation of what this right way of doing things can be in a more perfectly realised and ever-unfolding future. Noone is perfect, even us, and I never claimed we were, but what I do claim is perfection is the goal to which we are always striving, and we will never rest until this striving is as it were distilled and encased within tangible forms that one can touch in the real world, and as our knowledge grows, this will very much be the case. And you can quote me on that.

Those are of course Dave's own words.

Haha. Sounds just like a Bertie Ahearn speech.
Infacta........maybe he is secretly working as a speechwriter for Brailsford.

velo.2010

Thread title should read...

'British Cycling, Sky and Brian Cookson'

pelevin

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Haha. Sounds just like a Bertie Ahearn speech.
Infacta........maybe he is secretly working as a speechwriter for Brailsford.

Sounds like I might have got a bit too much reality in those words! Dave reaches levels of abstraction rarely attained before.

Sunsets On Tuesday

RobFowl wrote: »

I see Ian Drake the Chief executive of BC has just resigned, I wonder if its the start of a snowball effect..

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/37723129

Hate to be naïve, but is this all to do with the Wiggins/Froome TUE scandal?
Will there be any repercussion for that at all? Apart from (perhaps) these resignations?
I know they "broke no rules" but I mean you can drive down the M50 at 120km/h in snow, not breaking rules/laws, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do that?!
(Probably an awful metaphor to showcase my point but hopefully y'all get the jist of it)

68 lost souls

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Hate to be naïve, but is this all to do with the Wiggins/Froome TUE scandal?
Will there be any repercussion for that at all? Apart from (perhaps) these resignations?
I know they "broke no rules" but I mean you can drive down the M50 at 120km/h in snow, not breaking rules/laws, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do that?!
(Probably an awful metaphor to showcase my point but hopefully y'all get the jist of it)

Hate to be pedantic but you would be, M50 speed limit is 100kmh

Cee-Jay-Cee

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Haha. Sounds just like a Bertie Ahearn speech.
Infacta........maybe he is secretly working as a speechwriter for Brailsford.

Bertie can barely write his name let alone a speech. Do you honestly think he wrote his own pieces??? .

Cookie_Monster

68 lost souls wrote: »

Hate to be pedantic but you would be, M50 speed limit is 100kmh

apart from the parts that are 120 :rolleyes:

J Madone

Apologies if posted already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8o7RNL-mHI&sns=em
I think its brilliant

Lusk_Doyle

I miss the sky diaries that we used to be treated to on here!

Mods can we add a poll to bring back the sky diaries?!?!

greenspurs

pelevin wrote: »

Brailsford hasn't gone because Sky are doing, have been doing, and are continuing to do things the right way, and if the right way has become as it were diverted to a tangent of a certain degree of angle to the direction it had been traversing, then this is in a sense, and a very real tangible sense, and you will of course agree with me here, a consequence of the evolution of our ongoing dynamic at Sky of upwards progression to a heightened realisation of what this right way of doing things can be in a more perfectly realised and ever-unfolding future. Noone is perfect, even us, and I never claimed we were, but what I do claim is perfection is the goal to which we are always striving, and we will never rest until this striving is as it were distilled and encased within tangible forms that one can touch in the real world, and as our knowledge grows, this will very much be the case. And you can quote me on that.

Those are of course Dave's own words.

WOW ! But, what the funk does that mean ?!?
" we are legitimately cheating " ? ... Thanks Dave dude.

RobFowl

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Hate to be naïve, but is this all to do with the Wiggins/Froome TUE scandal?

A BC employee couriered an unspecified medical product over to France in a "jiffy bag".
It's unclear if this was paid for by Sky or BC but it was done on BC time with a BC employee (who did not know or declare what was in the bag at customs).
The TUE process was pushed to the limits of the rules and even Brian Cookson admitted it was a grey area. Many including myself (a qualified Doc) feel the TUEs were inappropriate and that the illnesses did not justify the use of cosrticosteroids in oral or injection form in competition.
Brian Cookson was president of BC at the time and was on the board of governance of Sky.

Is that enough???

Kaisr Sose

greenspurs wrote: »

" we are legitimately cheating " ? ....

Would that be classed a marginal gain?

RobFowl

David Brailford live here at 11:15 answering questions from UK MP's..

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fe5a6178-448d-44cc-835d-7ee6cd91b6e4

Shane Sutton, is backtracking about authorising the package to then saying arranging the package. He is justifying himself a lot too. He keeps saying the team is clean, the cleanest in the world etc.

This really does not look good.

Also with the Wiggins post on Instagram today, it is something you would expect from Armstrong.

CramCycle

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Hate to be naïve, but is this all to do with the Wiggins/Froome TUE scandal?
Will there be any repercussion for that at all? Apart from (perhaps) these resignations?
I know they "broke no rules" but I mean you can drive down the M50 at 120km/h in snow, not breaking rules/laws, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do that?!
(Probably an awful metaphor to showcase my point but hopefully y'all get the jist of it)

Doing so, even in the areas where the limit is 120 is still illegal as it is dangerous driving.

Weepsie wrote: »

The MP leading the committee claimed for a second house he shouldn't have and suggested young people should work for less than minimum wage or busk.
The latter shows he's a bit of a creting, but the first shows his at best sense of entitlement, at worst he is himself somewhat corrupt and shouldn't be questioning anyone over irregular/illegal activity.

Reminds me of this when I read your post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKWGJlhtxY

Doc07

RobFowl wrote: »

David Brailford live here at 11:15 answering questions from UK MP's..

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fe5a6178-448d-44cc-835d-7ee6cd91b6e4

This just reminded me that you mentioned in an earlier post in this thread re not agreeing with the TUE ( as a medical doctor). I agree with you 100% on that one but at no stage has the mainstream medical organisations ever properly condemned or even made firm statements about blatant abuse of drugs in sport.
Bradley Wiggins went to an ENT surgeon in the UK when he needed to see a specialist about his allergies. He was then prescribed a drug not used much in everyday medical practice in relative terms. The drug was however one of the most famous ( or infamous) performance enhancing drugs used in cycling in the 70s/80s/90s and probably early 2000's.

It's not even that the TUE for kenacort is so bad. It's just the idea that the doctor or any of Bradley's sky team or Bradley himself( he claims to be a cycling history buff) didn't know kenocort was such an infamous drug is very difficult to stomach.
None of the MPs will have the cop on or knowledge to explicitly ask about his today. The 'mystery package' is a better headline.

bazermc

David Walsh on Newstalk now talking about this.

Lusk_Doyle

bazermc wrote: »

David Walsh on Newstalk now talking about this.

Were the words coming out of his mouth or Brailsford's rear end? Hard to know where one ends and the other begins in recent years. In fairness.

Walsh is do not come across well at all regarding Team Sky and after watching the parliamentary hearings yesterday, to me something stinks bad at Team Sky.

Macy0161

Listened to the podcast of Off The Ball this morning. Prepared to throw everyone under the bus (especially Wiggins), bar Froome. Even Uran for a TUE in the Giro, but no mention of the ones Froome also got - at least one of which didn't go through proper procedure in the UCI, and Froome also won that race.

To me, the whole interview was an attempt to spin it as a Wiggins/ Freeman/ Brailsford construct to justify his own position with Froome and the rest of Team Sky.

Leroy42

The NT boys really laid into him. Walsh was left floundering.

Remember all that stuff when Wiggo won the tour, that Froome had the beating of him except for team orders?

Now we are supposed to believe that Wiggo was up to something but not Froome? Come on? And that Sky found something that worked for Wiggo but decided not to go that route with Froome, because what, he was just so good?

CramCycle

Leroy42 wrote: »

Now we are supposed to believe that Wiggo was up to something but not Froome? Come on? And that Sky found something that worked for Wiggo but decided not to go that route with Froome, because what, he was just so good?

Internal video leaked from Skys training camp the year Wiggo won the tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhCMADl_nY

velo.2010

Listened to the podcast earlier. Poor Walsh is in deep denial at this stage. I guess he has to stand over his work with Team Sky. Its easy to target the guys he has - Wiggo is gone, Sutton is a sexist idiot, Brailsford is an interchangeable management type and Freeman only worked with Wiggo. Froome, Kerrison and Ellingworth along with the other riders get a free pass.

Interesting to compare Walsh's reason for not covering the 2012 Tour with Paul Kimmage's own thoughts a couple of months ago on Off The Ball. Walsh said he was fed up with cycling and had no interest. Kimmage believes from his time with Walsh in Portugal (the Danish pastry and two beaten dockets article) that neither he (Walsh) nor the Times had the stomach to investigate Wiggins' rise to GC rider and Tour winner. They had been stung before!

Eamonnator

Interesting piece in Sticky Bottle by Doctor Conor McGrane.

http://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/medical-opinion-how-fluimucil-would-have-aided-wiggins/

Harrybelafonte

Ken Matheson: Former British Cycling coach says 'culture of fear' exists - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/38413852

velo.2010

Fluimucil maintains the narrative of Wiggins being an asthma and hay fever sufferer. I don't know what was in the 'jiffy bag' but I doubt it contained the medicine they claim.

Matt Lawton of the Mail now has Brailsford over a barrel with the news Sir Dave attempted to basically bribe him not to run the package story. Interesting to see where this goes from here.... back to the Commons, I guess?

Weepsie

Weepsie wrote: »

Don't know if I'd trust that Dr McGrane chap to be honest.....

Why not?

koutoubia

Weepsie wrote: »

Don't know if I'd trust that Dr McGrane chap to be honest.....

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not?

Anyone who wears a rear entry tri suit to cyclocross just simply cannot be trusted

Beasty

koutoubia wrote: »

Anyone who wears a rear entry tri suit to cyclocross just simply cannot be trusted

Didn't realise you were into cyclocross koutoubia (although I had heard from that McGrane fella that rear entry lycra was something in your letter to Santa:pac:)

Eamonnator

Weepsie wrote: »

Don't know if I'd trust that Dr McGrane chap to be honest.....

Anybody, who likes black and red cycling gear, can't be all bad.

Beasty

Eamonnator wrote: »

Anybody, who likes black and red cycling gear, can't be all bad.

Think koutoubia decided on United's colours, while McGrane tried to convince himself it was something to do with Liverpool....

Both seem to have an unexplained aversion to blue and white (even with some orange thrown in)

koutoubia

Ha Thankfully nothing to do with pansy ball colour schematics.

Lusk_Doyle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why not?

He is a charlatan, plain and simple.

Beasty

Would never describe him as "plain" or "simple".....


:pac:

Lusk_Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

Would never describe him as "plain" or "simple".....


:pac:

You've never been out on one of our club spins so!

Mind you, neither have I for quite some time now!

pelevin

Interesting strong, angry article from Nicole Cooke on broadly this whole affair. Doesn't exactly like Sutton & Cope.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/dec/29/nicole-cooke-team-sky-british-cycling

pelevin

pelevin wrote: »

Brailsford hasn't gone because Sky are doing, have been doing, and are continuing to do things the right way, and if the right way has become as it were diverted to a tangent of a certain degree of angle to the direction it had been traversing, then this is in a sense, and a very real tangible sense, and you will of course agree with me here, a consequence of the evolution of our ongoing dynamic at Sky of upwards progression to a heightened realisation of what this right way of doing things can be in a more perfectly realised and ever-unfolding future. Noone is perfect, even us, and I never claimed we were, but what I do claim is perfection is the goal to which we are always striving, and we will never rest until this striving is as it were distilled and encased within tangible forms that one can touch in the real world, and as our knowledge grows, this will very much be the case. And you can quote me on that.

Those are of course Dave's own words.

Saw some actual words from Brailsford earlier when he met the press at Sky's Mallorca camp:

"People's perception of me is what their perception of me may be," he said. "I accept that totally, I know what I'm doing, I know in my own mind, in my own soul, if I'm doing this the right way or not, and I've been doing it the right way for a long time, and I know that. I'll continue to do that, so me - I'm focussing on the future, this year, and next year and that's what I'm going to do."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-dodges-questions-about-ukad-investigation-at-team-skys-mallorca-camp/

I'm getting mixed up now. Was I parodying him or is he parodying me?

Rambling Man

"The jiffy bag was about this size I think"

pelevin

Don't be flippant about the famed Brailsford Hands of Integrity. Whenever he does that manoeuvre, and it's not easy, it shows he's especially focusing in on both the efficiently right thing to do and ethically right thing to do at the same time.
To show how hard it can be, this was Oleg Tinkov's effort to make the same movement:

terrydel

pelevin wrote: »

Saw some actual words from Brailsford earlier when he met the press at Sky's Mallorca camp:

"People's perception of me is what their perception of me may be," he said. "I accept that totally, I know what I'm doing, I know in my own mind, in my own soul, if I'm doing this the right way or not, and I've been doing it the right way for a long time, and I know that. I'll continue to do that, so me - I'm focussing on the future, this year, and next year and that's what I'm going to do."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-dodges-questions-about-ukad-investigation-at-team-skys-mallorca-camp/

I'm getting mixed up now. Was I parodying him or is he parodying me?

That man hasnt got a soul. Hes the most souless, corporate, pr-spun robot in sport. And that's saying something these days.

pelevin

Sky, Brailsford & the gang not coming out too shiny with all this stuff:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ukad-launch-damning-attack-on-team-sky-and-british-cycling-over-medical-practices/

'Clean' team without medical records of who gets given what by a doctor who is too sick to talk to this hearing.

A couple of Twitter quotes from former Sky PR man David Walsh:

"According to Sapstead,
BC/TS ordered supplies Triamcinolone/Kenalog. Few months ago Dave Brailsford said he didn't know what Kenalog was."

"Team Sky ordered large quantity of Triamcinolone if for one rider, small amount if for entire squad. Team has to specify who got it."

Shane Stokes article on CylingTips well worth a read:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/no-proof-provided-support-british-cycling-team-sky-accounts-wiggins-mystery-package/

godtabh

The question though is have they done anything illegal? Clearly there marginal gain/clean principals are a load of crap but will the wiggin out of this? They seem to go through a couple of news cycles, the issues dies down only for the next wave.

Team Sky support is now 50/50 between Fan Boys and the likes of Digger.

pelevin

I doubt anyone finds the Fulimicil story credible so it looks very,very probable they did do something in cycling terms illegal. Surely that won't be ever proven presumably apart from a confession by the elusive doctor, so whilst the team's reputation is now very tarnished, they'll carry on as the biggest team I'd imagine.

CramCycle

They broke their own rules and presumably are borderline on official rules. But alot like speeding on a motorway with no Garda about, unless they confess, nothing will happen here as most of it is unprovable.

Interesting to see what is in the Jess Varnish files that were not handed over though.

TheBlaaMan

You'd have to wonder how much sh1t has to hit the fan, or just negative publicity of any form, before Sky pull out of sponsorship of the team. Does anyone know if the title sponsorship contract is due for renewal - I know that Froome has a contract thru to the end of 2018, so presumably that reflects the minimum that Sky have committed to...

pelevin

No idea of the legalities but Tinkov pulled out of his team even though I think Sagan still had a year on his contract. Sky/the Murdochs are at least on a par with Nike I'd imagine though who were the last rats to leave the good ship Lance a few years ago even after his titles had been stripped from him.

pelevin

15 minutes Podcast from CyclingNews. They title it "A catastrophic day for Team Sky"!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/a-catastrophic-day-for-team-sky-podcast/

Just started listening & they seem to be ripping Sky's credibility apart completely. Headlines like "Team Sky and British Cycling's reputation 'in tatters' after bruising parliamentary hearing" in Telegraph. Seems like the UK press hasn't gone easy on them.

Will Fotheringham who co-wrote or ghost wrote Brad Wiggins' autobiography says in The Guardian " . . . men such as Brailsford, who for six years have stated that people should believe in their ways of working and who will be repeating that this summer, no longer have a leg to stand on."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/02/british-cycling-team-sky-dave-brailsford-credibility-tatters?CMP=share_btn_tw

Macy0161

I don't think Sky will pull out early - while the fan boys remain they're still getting something out of it, and has that cohort ever really diminished? The fan boys will run with "they've done nothing wrong", and the lots of us that were always a bit suss or just long in the tooth, just see it as confirmation that they're no better (or worse) than any other team.

Laptop being stolen must be the modern dog ate my homework though!