17 Winchester Super Magnum

cavan shooter

I was chatting to a couple of lads from the states who are over here doing some work and they reckon the 17 HMR is being eclipsed by the following rimfire, which is becoming very popular with varminters in the states.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/17_super_mag_first_look.htm
http://www.huntinggearguy.com/rimfire/17-hmr-vs-17-wsm/
Fires a 20 grn bullet at impressive velocities. Anyone see them or have any thoughts, 17 hornet is sliding because of cost. Im not mentioning cost youd be sick>

Snakezilla

The 17wsm wouldnt tickle my fancy to be honest. Would I take one if offered one for free? Of course I would. Would I source one out and put in for another license? No...

I think theres enough Hmr's out there for ammo to always be available even though some places are taking the p1ss and charging €22 or €23 a box. Have enquired in my local shop about the wsm a few weeks back just in general conversation and the dealer hadnt a clue what I was on about. As far as he was concerned it didnt exist :P

Luckysasha

What about the savage 17hmr semi automatic rifle. Has anyone seen one yet in Ireland ?

Cass

I don't know. Another .17 caliber!

The second link gives some specs. It's says the .17wsm can fire the 20gr at 3000fps with 1.6" of drift compared to the hmr's 3". However they compare the 17gr against the 20gr.

If you compare the 20gr HMR against the 20gr WSM and allow for the speeds to be correct then two ballistic calculators i've used show the HMR with 2.9" of drift (so close to 3), but the WSM with 2.1" of drift. So essentially you get little more than half an inch less drift. So not exactly a hit or miss as the article describes it.

Next thing is cost. They say it'll be cheap due to the brass being used in the WSM. Well HMR ammo in the States is on average $12. That's €11. Here the exact same ammo is €20. Double the price. Now that has little to do with anything as it means, according to the article, that the WSM ammo will cost about the same so about €22 or so. The problem is availability.

At the moment HMR is scare. Even in the UK certain brands seem to be hard to get. Federal is not common, Hornady runs out as soon as it's in, and other stuff while workable, doesn't seem to be as good as these two.

How available will ammo be, and in what brands?

If you want something fast in .17 i'd look at .17 Remington. I know its centrefire and more expensive, but with a 20 or 25gr bullet doing over 4,000fps it's a completely different kettle of fish.

It seems that its an attempt to make a tiny calibre more like a larger one. For example turn a .17 into a 223. However comparing the WSM against the 223, the 223 has half as much drift as the WSM, half as much drop, etc. Only drawback. Ammo price for the 223, although given Fiocchi, Steel match, etc. the price is not that much apart.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

It seems that its an attempt to make a tiny calibre more like a larger one. For example turn a .17 into a 223. However comparing the WSM against the 223, the 223 has half as much drift as the WSM, half as much drop, etc. Only drawback. Ammo price for the 223, although given Fiocchi, Steel match, etc. the price is not that much apart.

Always nice to see another calibre/loading, but on the above you can now get 223 35gr loads going at 4000fps according to manufacturer

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-gr-NTX/

Don't know if anyone has them here.

Cass

Like a 110 gr in 308 doing almost 3,200fps.

There is, imo, enough variants of most calibres that something new that does not revolutionize or change to such an extent as to further the calibre is simply unnecessary.

Perhaps it depends on country, but the game in Ireland is fixed and we have more than enough calibres to cover every type of shooting. IOW if one of these:

• .17 PMC
• .17 HM2
• .17 HMR
• .17 Hornet
• .17 Fireball
• .17 Remington

................. does not suit, and not even counting the others in the .17 family such as:

• .17 CCM
• .17 Squirrel
• .17 Ackley Hornet
• .17 Jet
• .17 Max
• .17 - 222
• .17 PPC
• etc

................... then i cannot see how the WSM will fill the "void".

Snakezilla

I think the fact we cant reload is a big issue with calibres dying out here. Having owned a .17 Remington for a few years, it got to the stage where I just couldnt afford over €2 per shot. If I were able to reload then that rifle would still have a place in my cabinet. I hope Im not going too far off topic but I still cant understand why ammo can be so hard to get here. Ive read that Ireland only gets 2 or 3 shipments of ammo per year. If 17wsm ammo was available on every gun shops shelves like the .22lr or .17hmr was would more lads be shooting wsm's ? I genuinely dont think so ... Maybe Im wrong

yubabill1

Can't agree enough wrt ammo availability/prices compared to USA.

I remember being heavily involved in a chatroom when the 17 HMR was coming on stream - was led to believe the ammo was going to cost a little more than 22 Magnum etc etc. Same with 17 HM2, was supposed to get cheap as chips.

Even factoring in VAT, excise, transport the 17 HMR is a rip-off price wise compared to 22 Mag.

Now we have ITAR between the US and EU, which adds cost and logistic problems to everything shooting-related coming here from the US.

I think we have to forget what Americans are paying for ammo/shooting and look to European or non-US sources for cheaper shooting, while buying the odd box of premium US ammo for more serious use: It's the only way I can deal with it, anyway.

The 17 WSM was made from nail gun ammo? If that's the one, they were again touting the cheapness of the ammo, but I think we can disregard that side of things this side of the pond.

minktrapper

They should have brought it out in .20 not a .17 WSMR.Then you would have a different beast and would probably be a better seller. It would be a cross between a .22 Hornet and a .17HMR.

minktrapper

I would think that a lot of theses new calibres are about getting a higher percentage of the market share.If a company comes out with a new calibre then the opposition needs to get in for a piece of the action. That is probably where the .17 WSMR came from as a direct competitor to the .17HMR.Winchester v Hornady.

hrcbob

Ive been following the wsm trail for a good while now with great interest.

Id have one in the morning if a decent rifle and ammo were readily available.
A few have made it to the gun rooms in the uk and ammo prices seem to be in the region of £16 stg for 50x 20 grain bt hornady.

The major problem seems to be that the quality and prices of available rifles seem to be crap.

The savage b mag has been slated for its "recycled milk bottle" stock and as far as I can make out there are only Winchester and ruger making alternatives and they are silly money.

I agree it would have made far more sense to have made it in .22 form but id still like to see one perform in the real world.

minktrapper

They seem to be available in the gun dealers in the UK. How hard would it be to get one over here. Are Savage the only manufacturer's of this calibre.

hrcbob

The savage seems to be the only one on the shelves in the uk at the moment but i think ruger winchester and a few others are producing rifles,

The full list of available rifles is available on 17wsm.com

Id imagine getting the rifles over to eire would be easy enough but finding an rfd willing to stock ammo could be a bigger problem.

Run if the mill stuff seems to be hard got at times here so id imagine that they would drop the wsm stuff off the shopping list very quickly if they werent shifting large quantities of it.

minktrapper

hrcbob wrote: »

The savage seems to be the only one on the shelves in the uk at the moment but i think ruger winchester and a few others are producing rifles,

The full list of available rifles is available on 17wsm.com

Id imagine getting the rifles over to eire would be easy enough but finding an rfd willing to stock ammo could be a bigger problem.

Run if the mill stuff seems to be hard got at times here so id imagine that they would drop the wsm stuff off the shopping list very quickly if they werent shifting large quantities of it.

There is too much of a choice when it comes to ammunition choice now. The market is saturated with different calibres/manufacturers.I think this calibre/bullet will survive the test of time as it is relatively cheap and ideal for semi built up areas.

hrcbob

The big problem i see with the wsm is that the ammo is very close to the price point where people who can reload can make their own 17 hornet or 223 ammo.

The hmr succeeded because it was cheap enough to make it worthwhile but the wsm may struggle.

I cant see a few oddball countries like ourselves where reloading is a restricted being enough of a market to keep the wsm afloat, especially when the reviews coming from the states are so critical of both rifle and ammo quality.

minktrapper

hrcbob wrote: »

The big problem i see with the wsm is that the ammo is very close to the price point where people who can reload can make their own 17 hornet or 223 ammo.

The hmr succeeded because it was cheap enough to make it worthwhile but the wsm may struggle.

I cant see a few oddball countries like ourselves where reloading is a restricted being enough of a market to keep the wsm afloat, especially when the reviews coming from the states are so critical of both rifle and ammo quality.

No scarcity of good reviews either.