Doctor Struck Off, Didn't know Arse from Elbow

foggy_lad

Finally a senior surgical house officer has been struck off the medical register and the Judge had some choice remarks including

Mr Justice Kelly said he found it disturbing that someone with such substandard skills, could find himself on the medical register and find himself employed at three different hospitals.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1018/824969-court-medical-appeal/

It would appear that anyone can don a white coat and rock up to a hospital and start playing doctor. sure even that mad yoke who was head of the charity Console was also charged with impersonating a doctor before.

If I buy a sexy looking medical certificate from some African university can I then go to a hospital here and tell them I have come from Africa to work in hospitals here?


Also worrying is the comments from this guy after being struck off

After the verdict, Dr Hassan said it was "meaningless".

Outside the court, Dr Hassan said the decision was unfair and that he would take things into his own hands.

To me he sounds like he does not recognise the court and may continue to practice medicine here despite being struck off.

Cervantes2

Hi Doctor Nick!

Didn't know his arse from his elbow more like

Robsweezie

Reminds me of leo dicaprios character in catch me if you can

whiskeyman

Did it mention anything about the background checks / interview and hiring process of the places he worked in?

Just as guilty of poor practice IMM*O






(the extra M is for medical...)

:pac:

Dr Turk Turkelton

Robsweezie wrote: »

Reminds me of leo dicaprios character in catch me if you can

I concur.

Gatling

One of tens of other cases mainly involving foreign qualified Doctors employed thoughout the the health system here

toptom

Deport the fraudster

Gatling

There was another case a few weeks back where a hospital Doctor didn't even have basic CPR training

oik

What about charges for the person who hired them?

foggy_lad

whiskeyman wrote: »

Did it mention anything about the background checks / interview and hiring process of the places he worked in?

Just as guilty of poor practice IMM*O






(the extra M is for medical...)

:pac:

It appears when they started to catch him out in one place he just moved on to the next hospital, but there should have been far better procedures in place as this guy had numerous complaints from patients as well as subordinate staff that he didn't know basic stuff and was making stupid mistakes, there may also have been issues over his language proficiency.

whiskeyman

Gatling wrote: »

There was another case a few weeks back where a hospital Doctor didn't even have basic CPR training

He should be told to beat it!

Gatling

whiskeyman wrote: »

He should be told to beat it!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-who-didnt-know-simple-cpr-found-guilty-of-poor-performance-35100862.html

foggy_lad

Gatling wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-who-didnt-know-simple-cpr-found-guilty-of-poor-performance-35100862.html

He said his medical qualifications gained in Bulgaria had been accepted by the Medical Council.

Give me a proper Irish doctor(if there are any left?).

sullivlo

foggy_lad wrote: »

Give me a proper Irish doctor(if there are any left?).

Plenty of Irish people studying in Hungary/England/Belfast/Bulgaria to qualify to become doctors because they can't get into college here to study.

The qualification isn't the issue. Degrees are verified. Academic institutions are accountable for their graduates.

The hospitals that train the students should be accountable.

However hiring managers should be accountable too in checking references. Anyone can write anything on a CV if nobody checks it out.

Unfortunately these cases are becoming more frequent and more high profile.

But a question actually. There are two surgeons on duty. One is an Irish doctor trained in Ireland who trained in the 60's. One is an Italian doctor who trained in Italy in the 00's. You need an operation on your stomach that can be done through keyhole surgery, and the Italian doctor is better able to do the procedure keyhole rather than open as they had better access to the equipment than the older Irish doctor. Who would you choose to operate on you?

foggy_lad

Another report about this latest struck off doctor states that he made serious threats when told he would be struck off.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/court-upholds-decision-to-strike-off-doctor-who-mistook-ankle-for-elbow-on-xray-35140661.html

After the judge confirmed his striking off, Dr Hassan, who qualified in Sudan, said "for me it is meaningless".

When the judge ordered he pay the costs of the legal action, Dr Hassan said he did "not believe in the integrity of the procedure."

He also said he did not believe it was a fair decision.

In his appeal to the court, Dr Hassan argued, among other things, he should not be struck off because the evidence against him did not meet the required standard.

He also said the complaints against him should never have been referred to the Fitness to Practice Committee because they were not of a serious and grave nature.

Among those incidents, which happened in the Midland Regional Hospital Portlaoise, Mayo General, and Galway University Hospital between 2012 to 2014, was while performing a gall bladder related procedure he stood on the pedal of an electrosurgical machine, which was not in use, and caused a burn injury to a patient.

On another, he attempted to insert a needle into a patient's arm on a number of occasions, causing her pain, even though the procedure was not necessary.

While senior house officer in Mayo General, on one occasion, he failed to provide assistance to an intern who was dealing with a patient experiencing an upper gastrointestinal haemorrhage

In an incident in the Galway hospital, he failed to attend in a timely manner, or at all, to review a patient, who had presented in significant pain with an ankle fracture.

Around February 17, 2014, during a trauma meeting/teaching session in Galway, he misidentified an x-ray image of an ankle as being one of an elbow.

This is quite sinister!

The court previously heard Dr Hassan had complained about his treatment at the public inquiry and threatened in correspondence it "will be fully paid for at an extremely bloody price for the people involved worldwide".

He also wrote there would be "a grave response from me an my family side to these events outside court and not necessarily in Ireland".

This guy should be declared a threat to the state and deported!

Grayson

sullivlo wrote: »

Plenty of Irish people studying in Hungary/England/Belfast/Bulgaria to qualify to become doctors because they can't get into college here to study.

The qualification isn't the issue. Degrees are verified. Academic institutions are accountable for their graduates.

The hospitals that train the students should be accountable.

However hiring managers should be accountable too in checking references. Anyone can write anything on a CV if nobody checks it out.

Unfortunately these cases are becoming more frequent and more high profile.

But a question actually. There are two surgeons on duty. One is an Irish doctor trained in Ireland who trained in the 60's. One is an Italian doctor who trained in Italy in the 00's. You need an operation on your stomach that can be done through keyhole surgery, and the Italian doctor is better able to do the procedure keyhole rather than open as they had better access to the equipment than the older Irish doctor. Who would you choose to operate on you?

That's the thing isn't it. I know a doctor in his 30's. He's already at consultant level. I shared an apt with him when he was a registrar. He studied every day. He still does now. Since he was doing the leaving he's been studying. That's why he's at the top of his field and will stay there.

gctest50

foggy_lad wrote: »

..................
This guy should be declared a threat to the state and deported!

He'd just go on to leave a trail of destruction elsewhere, lock him up

Gatling

I remember having to have an emergency Cather fitted after an operation ,
Had a young Doctor from Asia come in and tried in vain to insert the Cather after several attempts and ignoring the sheer amount of pain he was causing a young nurse stepped in and got him to stop what he was doing until a consultant was there ,

When the consultant on call arrived he asked what the doctor thought he was doing wrong that he couldn't do a simple Cather insertion ,
Young Dr replied ive only read about the procedure in a text book and never done it as training

osarusan

sullivlo wrote: »

But a question actually. There are two surgeons on duty. One is an Irish doctor trained in Ireland who trained in the 60's. One is an Italian doctor who trained in Italy in the 00's. You need an operation on your stomach that can be done through keyhole surgery, and the Italian doctor is better able to do the procedure keyhole rather than open as they had better access to the equipment than the older Irish doctor. Who would you choose to operate on you?

I know this one!!!

The one with the bigger boobs.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

That's not the first time Portlaoise had a dr that didn't know what they were at. There was a case maybe two years ago where someone who wasn't even qualified was hired as an a+e dr and had attempted to insert a cannula with a scalpel only to be stopped and reported by a nurse, and turns out he'd also given someone with a Tumor the all clear.

Quite scary. But to be honest, even the good Drs are so over worked you'd be questioning if you were safe or not.

FishOnABike

At least there is a working disciplinary process for our medical profession. Unfortunately mistakes have to be made before there can be a complaint or cause for disciplinary action. More's the pity we don't have a similar fitness to practice process for some of our judiciary.

The current process whereby a two thirds majority of the dáil is required to remove a judge from office essentially makes our judiciary unaccountable for their actions.

ZeroThreat

foggy_lad

FishOnABike wrote: »

At least there is a working disciplinary process for our medical profession. Unfortunately mistakes have to be made before there can be a complaint or cause for disciplinary action. More's the pity we don't have a similar fitness to practice process for some of our judiciary.

The current process whereby a two thirds majority of the dáil is required to remove a judge from office essentially makes our judiciary unaccountable for their actions.

How about a medical examination for doctors that can be sprung on them at short notice? like saying to them "turn up at x building on Monday morning at 9pm for your examination or consider yourself sh1tcanned" and keep the exam limited to the basics, stuff a doctor should be able to do day to day and symptoms that they should recognise rather than obscure tropical or rare conditions.

darkpagandeath

I assume he will have to pay back wages ? Any pension contributions and alike gotten rid of ? Would it not be akin to fraud ?

gctest50

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I assume he will have to pay back wages ? Any pension contributions and alike gotten rid of ? Would it not be akin to fraud ?

Ah no, he might go on to open a charity

Paul Kelly ( console.ie ) made headlines for another reason in 1983 when he was given the Probation Act for pretending to be a doctor at the Royal City of Dublin Hospital in Baggot Street for three weeks.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/console-boss-who-won-awards-for-charity-work-once-pretended-to-be-a-doctor-34844858.html

SEPT 23 1989

I presume the absolute morons that hired him will be fired

Outlaw Pete

I was diagnosed with a deficiency of a hormone that is produced by the Gonads and Adrenals many years ago. They didn't know why and so I was referred to a Professor of Endocrinology. He was in his mid 50's at the time. At my first consultation with him he said never heard of the hormone I was deficient in.

I have since met many people who have seen him over the years and apparently nurses have nicked named him the spoofer as it became so common for him to waffle to patients about not being able to find what was wrong with them only for other consultants in the hospital to have no problem doing so.

I think we'd be shocked if we knew the truth about some of the imbeciles in or hospitals that have some how managed to hold down their jobs despite not being remotely good at them. They are a sacred cow if ever there was one.

darkpagandeath

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume the absolute morons that hired him will be fired

Civil servant, Prob got a promotion due to Equality and all that ?

Dr Turk Turkelton

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume the absolute morons that hired him will be fired

Godamn you, now I have to go to see an unqualified doctor to patch up my ribs while laughing so heartliy at the suggestion that someone in the medical profession in Ireland would be held accountable for something.

StupidLikeAFox

Nurse: "This man has a tennis injury, hurt his arm, what should we prescribe?"

Fake doctor: "Arse cream"

Nurse: "Something isn't right here....."

Sand

foggy_lad wrote: »

Another report about this latest struck off doctor states that he made serious threats when told he would be struck off.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/court-upholds-decision-to-strike-off-doctor-who-mistook-ankle-for-elbow-on-xray-35140661.html


This is quite sinister!

This guy should be declared a threat to the state and deported!

The comments and attitude reminds me of a fellah I had the misfortune of managing in a different line of work. An absolute fantasist who wrote a long, long, long tirade quoting the UN and all sorts when called up on his awful performance.

You can be sure this 'Doctor' fully believes everything he says. He ought to be deported given his threats, but also the vetting process that hired him three times needs to be seriously investigated. When he says him being struck off is 'meaningless' maybe he is right in that the vetting process is so poor he will still get hired if he is not deported.

gctest50

.

more like a documentary than a comedy :

darkpagandeath

Sand wrote: »

The comments and attitude reminds me of a fellah I had the misfortune of managing in a different line of work. An absolute fantasist who wrote a long, long, long tirade quoting the UN and all sorts when called up on his awful performance.

You can be sure this 'Doctor' fully believes everything he says. He ought to be deported given his threats, but also the vetting process that hired him three times needs to be seriously investigated. When he says him being struck off is 'meaningless' maybe he is right in that the vetting process is so poor he will still get hired if he is not deported.

Same departments response.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/46283012.jpg

Atoms for Peace

whiskeyman wrote: »

Did it mention anything about the background checks / interview and hiring process of the places he worked in?

Just as guilty of poor practice IMM*O






(the extra M is for medical...)

:pac:

Red tape seems to be strangling lower pay jobs yet someone with dubious qualifications can walk into job where peoples lives are at stake, without so much as a reference is bizarre.
If your going to lie on your CV, lie big it seems.

razorblunt

The original complaint was filed by one, Mr McGreg ...

Atoms for Peace

Reminds me of this, must be how the HSE HR dept. operates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWSu0NwA3Qw

Jimoslimos

sullivlo wrote: »

But a question actually. There are two surgeons on duty. One is an Irish doctor trained in Ireland who trained in the 60's. One is an Italian doctor who trained in Italy in the 00's. You need an operation on your stomach that can be done through keyhole surgery, and the Italian doctor is better able to do the procedure keyhole rather than open as they had better access to the equipment than the older Irish doctor. Who would you choose to operate on you?

The one undergoing CPD.

Hans Bricks

I remember when my uncle was struck with Appendicitis about 10 years ago. He went to a west African local GP somewhere in Donegal who advised him to (I shit you not) neck two and half liters of Coca Cola and it would flush the bug out of his system.

After excruciating stomach pain for another day he went to an Irish doctor who had him sent immediately to hospital to have his appendix removed.

darkpagandeath

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Reminds me of this, must be how the HSE HR dept. operates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWSu0NwA3Qw

Fallout 3 makes much more sense than cod.

Outlaw Pete

You know, now that I think of it, that explains the guy I seen one day that had his arse in a sling.

ArtSmart

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume the absolute morons that hired him will be fired

The issue is supply and demand.

Irish doctors can make de big dollars abroad, and gain wider experience, better working condition etc.

so, they're off, first chance.

So, we hire those who will work in less ideal conditions for less money. (doesn't mean they're bad doctors, it just increases the likelihood of it, ie their employment options are limited - for a reason)

If the conditions and opportunities were here, more capable doctors would stay and work in hospitals.

Until that changes, expect a lot more of this.

Mr_Muffin

Health care is like any other industry in that there a people who don't have a clue what day of the week it is never mind how to actually do their job.

LynnGrace

It's horrible to think that vulnerable people were at the mercy of this 'doctor'. I remember reading some of the earlier reports on this.

Michael D Not Higgins

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I remember when my uncle was struck with Appendicitis about 10 years ago. He went to a west African local GP somewhere in Donegal who advised him to (I shit you not) neck two and half liters of Coca Cola and it would flush the bug out of his system.

After excruciating stomach pain for another day he went to an Irish doctor who had him sent immediately to hospital to have his appendix removed.

In fairness, I was misdiagnosed with a stomach bug by three different Irish GPs when I was 5 whereas the doctor in the university hospital Galway knew it was appendicitis within 2 minutes of examining me.

There's always been spoofers.

ChikiChiki

There was a guy in the press struck off a few months back. The HSE hired him after a Skype interview. Couldn't make this **** up.

suicide_circus

The problem is that after the state pays for their education, we can't afford to pay our doctors and nurses what they would get in the states, oz or the uk so they all end up emigrating and we end up importing absolute retards from the Mogadishu distance learning school of questionable medicine.

seamus

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There was a guy in the press struck off a few months back. The HSE hired him after a Skype interview. Couldn't make this **** up.

Medicine has always had this issue that once someone is "qualified", there's a tendency to gloss over whether they're actually capable of doing the job.
It's effectively a science discipline, and anyone who works in any engineering or scientific role knows that a qualification doesn't mean that someone is remotely capable or competent of working in the field in which they've qualified.

Granted, the bar for medicine is way higher and the hoops to be jumped through far more onerous, but ultimately you will always get one or two spoofers who have all the paper, but are utterly bad at what they do yet have managed to spoof their way through work.

Medicine still has to catch up to this and rigorously interview, reference check and background check every medical professional they employ. A list of qualifications and institutions is not enough.

The guy in the OP sounds like he has serious mental health issues. Appears to have enough knowledge to be a doctor, but doesn't have the mental stability or attention to detail required of the role. Prime candidate for a murder-suicide right there.

I would say the hiring manager in the HSE know there is a problem with medical graduates of certain universities now a problem does not mean they are all incompetent just that a higher proportion from some medical degree courses turn out to be incompetent. If they identified this publicly they would be accused of discrimination so the only solution is that each doctor before they are offered a contract of employment have to do an exam and skills test.

ClovenHoof

Let's be honest he was given leeway because he is immigrant and several hundred Diversity Managers at the HSE thought he was wonderful based on the fact he was a part of our beautiful multicultural society.

You Know It. I Know it. The Mods about to ban me for this Know It.

ClovenHoof

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Let's be honest he was given leeway because he is immigrant and several hundred Diversity Managers at the HSE thought he was wonderful based on the fact he was a part of our beautiful multicultural society.

You Know It. I Know it. The Mods about to ban me for this Know It.

I don't see why you should be banned for the complete nonsense that comment is, the HSE and the health boards have always had a large amount of overseas doctors long long before diversity was heard of as a thing.