2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

awec

fungie wrote: »

Hi,

First time buyer and haven't a clue. Thinking of putting a booking deposit down next weekend. It is refundable, we were just wondering when do we have to pay the rest and it becomes binding? The house wont be complete until next summer probably.

Usually within 21 days of contract being issued, which will happen in the weeks after you pay the booking deposit (depends how fast the estate agent is).

Basically, expect to pay the non-refundable 10% within a month or two.

babybaby2017

hi @autumnbelle. im in the same position as you . spoke to ebs and solicitor last week on it and they said contact revenue and explain that we overspend and need to take out extra mortgage to bring us up to 70% (we thought it was the build cost and not the autioneers valuation-same as you I think)- I will update once they come back ..fingers crossed!

Daniogroove

It is based on the total build cost, not the final evaluation.

Build cost is 230k.
180k mortgage and 50k of your own money to pay registered contractor.
Total refund will be 5% of 230k

Verifed by a self builder who has claimed back through the scheme.

autumnbelle

babybaby2017 wrote: »

hi @autumnbelle. im in the same position as you . spoke to ebs and solicitor last week on it and they said contact revenue and explain that we overspend and need to take out extra mortgage to bring us up to 70% (we thought it was the build cost and not the autioneers valuation-same as you I think)- I will update once they come back ..fingers crossed!

Please do let me know, even by pm. We are very tight with the mortgage being offered to us and the refund would be a huge help at the end. We will definitely need more money do will be either getting bank or credit union loan towards the end

autumnbelle

Daniogroove wrote: »

It is based on the total build cost, not the final evaluation.

Build cost is 230k.
180k mortgage and 50k of your own money to pay registered contractor.
Total refund will be 5% of 230k

Verifed by a self builder who has claimed back through the scheme.

As far as I can gather from Revenue it’s totally dependent on what the bank put on the mortgage contract as the valuation (ours has been valued by auctioneer) and we are almost certain that this is what they will put on our contract 😓

awec

Daniogroove wrote: »

It is based on the total build cost, not the final evaluation.

Build cost is 230k.
180k mortgage and 50k of your own money to pay registered contractor.
Total refund will be 5% of 230k

Verifed by a self builder who has claimed back through the scheme.

This is completely wrong.

It is based entirely on the valuation, not the build cost. This is called out in black and white on the Revenue site, there is no ambiguity.

Purchase price: "For self-built property, the purchase value is the approved valuation by the lender at the time that you took out the mortgage." (Source)

Rebate amount: "5% of the purchase price of a new home. For self-builds this is 5% of the completion value of the property." (Source)

Build cost is totally irrelevant. Your mortgage must be at least 70% of the final build value to qualify. You are eligible for up to 5% of the final build value.


On another note you won't be able to fiddle the numbers or take out other loans to get around the rules. Either you have a 70% mortgage or you don't.

Daniogroove

awec wrote: »

This is completely wrong.

It is based entirely on the valuation, not the build cost. This is called out in black and white on the Revenue site, there is no ambiguity.

Purchase price: "For self-built property, the purchase value is the approved valuation by the lender at the time that you took out the mortgage." (Source)

Rebate amount: "5% of the purchase price of a new home. For self-builds this is 5% of the completion value of the property." (Source)

Build cost is totally irrelevant. Your mortgage must be at least 70% of the final build value to qualify. You are eligible for up to 5% of the final build value.


On another note you won't be able to fiddle the numbers or take out other loans to get around the rules. Either you have a 70% mortgage or you don't.

Well my neighbour who's 3000ft a2 rated new build was valued at 435k after build.

Total build was as per example 230k which clearly blows the 70% LTV out the water..

If that were the case the land value is taken into consideration so to be the same house in Leitrim would be possible under the scheme, but not in Dublin.. that would be completely unfair

And you claim it after the first tranche so the final evaluation would be impossible at this point.

That link you refer too, completion value is the cost to complete the build. I only several people who claimed it on new builds and your understanding of it not one of them would be eligible. Every new private build is always worth far more than it's cost.

The_Conductor

Daniogroove wrote: »

And you claim it after the first tranche so the final evaluation would be impossible at this point.

You have to make a valid and reasonable declaration that you meet the requirements of the scheme. If you don't- Revenue can and will chase you for a reimbursement of the funds (plus penalties, plus interest)........... Over a hundred people have had Revenue query their claims year-to-date- and a number of cases have been determined to be in breach and had sanctions applied.

Be careful. Ignorance is not a suitable answer if Revenue come after you regarding compliance with the scheme.........

awec

Daniogroove wrote: »

Well my neighbour who's 3000ft a2 rated new build was valued at 435k after build.

Total build was as per example 230k which clearly blows the 70% LTV out the water..

If that were the case the land value is taken into consideration so to be the same house in Leitrim would be possible under the scheme, but not in Dublin.. that would be completely unfair

And you claim it after the first tranche so the final evaluation would be impossible at this point.

That link you refer too, completion value is the cost to complete the build. I only several people who claimed it on new builds and your understanding of it not one of them would be eligible. Every new private build is always worth far more than it's cost.

It is the value the banks will deem it will be worth once you build it, at the time you apply for the mortgage (again, this is black and white on the revenue site). If you get it re-valued again for whatever reason after it's built it could be even higher.

There really is no confusion to be had here, it's crystal clear and if you go back through the thread you'll find numerous self-builders who have went through the process. On no planet is "competion value" the build cost.

And I doubt there are many first time buyers doing self-builds in Dublin. In fact I would be surprised if there are any. The scheme is already starting to exclude some new Dublin properties with the 500k cap, so I'm not sure why you think this is any different.

ShadysBack

Just wondering what other peoples experience is as regards the waiting time from application submission to payout of the Help to Buy grant?

I submitted my application five weeks ago and the Status has remained as 'Pending' ever since - neither my solicitor or contractor has received any correspondence from Revenue about my claim.

In general, I've found that the information needed to submit the claim is relatively straightforward, but the work that needs to be done by the solicitors and contractors in order to have the claim approved isn't very clear. In addition, I can't locate a phone number to speak with anyone from Revenue about the Grant - the MyEnquiries feature of the Revenue website appears to be the only way (currently waiting three weeks for a reply!).

awec

ShadysBack wrote: »

Just wondering what other peoples experience is as regards the waiting time from application submission to payout of the Help to Buy grant?

I submitted my application five weeks ago and the Status has remained as 'Pending' ever since - neither my solicitor or contractor has received any correspondence from Revenue about my claim.

In general, I've found that the information needed to submit the claim is relatively straightforward, but the work that needs to be done by the solicitors and contractors in order to have the claim approved isn't very clear. In addition, I can't locate a phone number to speak with anyone from Revenue about the Grant - the MyEnquiries feature of the Revenue website appears to be the only way (currently waiting three weeks for a reply!).

Just ring the revenue PAYE number, they will help you.

Once you upload contracts you should get your claim numbers pretty much instantly. You just send all those to the solicitor and they can sort it out.

susmac

Hi all

I wonder if anyone knows about claiming fr a different tax year...I was on mat leave in 2014 and as a result 'losing out' on a bit of tax not paid that year, also hubby's salary increased a good bit this year, at what point i wonder can you claim for 2018's tax year? Would i have to hold out to apply until Jan, not sure if the builders will wait for the deposit that long though...

hanaimai

susmac wrote: »

Hi all

I wonder if anyone knows about claiming fr a different tax year...I was on mat leave in 2014 and as a result 'losing out' on a bit of tax not paid that year, also hubby's salary increased a good bit this year, at what point i wonder can you claim for 2018's tax year? Would i have to hold out to apply until Jan, not sure if the builders will wait for the deposit that long though...

Yes, you'd have to wait until January to get 2018 counted in your rebate.

susmac

hanaimai wrote: »

Yes, you'd have to wait until January to get 2018 counted in your rebate.

Thanks hanaimai

sdssarah

susmac wrote: »

Hi all

I wonder if anyone knows about claiming fr a different tax year...I was on mat leave in 2014 and as a result 'losing out' on a bit of tax not paid that year, also hubby's salary increased a good bit this year, at what point i wonder can you claim for 2018's tax year? Would i have to hold out to apply until Jan, not sure if the builders will wait for the deposit that long though...

Hey it depends on how much you need, but it's only max 5% of the total cost of the new build. When we applied I used only 2 years (within the last 4 years) of just my income as my partner was unemployed during that time and it was plenty to cover the 5% of our new build. You are required to select a minimum of 1 tax year and a max of 4 but can ignore any year you don't want to include. So I would suggest selected 2015, 2016 and 2017 for you and your partner and it most likely will cover the 5% anyway. It shows you how much the rebate is worth before you commit anyway so you could check before you apply.

susmac

sdssarah wrote: »

Hey it depends on how much you need, but it's only max 5% of the total cost of the new build. When we applied I used only 2 years (within the last 4 years) of just my income as my partner was unemployed during that time and it was plenty to cover the 5% of our new build. You are required to select a minimum of 1 tax year and a max of 4 but can ignore any year you don't want to include. So I would suggest selected 2015, 2016 and 2017 for you and your partner and it most likely will cover the 5% anyway. It shows you how much the rebate is worth before you commit anyway so you could check before you apply.

Oh very interesting sdssarah thank you

susmac

So I was looking at all our P21s for the last 4 years and the amount I have been granted following application seems to be about 2k less than what we have paid in PAYE. Anyone know why this might be the case?

GingerLily

susmac wrote: »

So I was looking at all our P21s for the last 4 years and the amount I have been granted following application seems to be about 2k less than what we have paid in PAYE. Anyone know why this might be the case?

I think PAYE includes PRSI and USC, I don't think you can claim those taxes back, just income tax.

john_this

Hi All,

I would really appreciate if anybody had some thoughts on the requirement that you "live in the property for a minimum of 5 years". I have thrown out some scenarios below where circumstances change after receiving the rebate, which may unfairly require you to repay up to €20k. Has anybody heard of case-by-case exceptions?

1) You lose your job and are required to sell/downgrade
2) Your salary is decreased and need to rent 2 rooms to afford to repay mortgage
3) You become divorced and need to sell or rent the property
4) Your employer requires you to work abroad in a different office for 2+ years (ultimatum) as there is no longer work in the Irish office, and you need to rent the property while abroad
5) Your neighbour becomes really disorderly and there has been so many conflicts that you need to sell/move
6) You fall in love with somebody who lives different part of the country and wants you to move in together (or the relationship ends)
7) You die - would the rebate still be paid back by your family

Thanks!

GingerLily

john_this wrote: »

Hi All,

I would really appreciate if anybody had some thoughts on the requirement that you "live in the property for a minimum of 5 years". I have thrown out some scenarios below where circumstances change after receiving the rebate, which may unfairly require you to repay up to €20k. Has anybody heard of case-by-case exceptions?

1) You lose your job and are required to sell/downgrade
2) Your salary is decreased and need to rent 2 rooms to afford to repay mortgage
3) You become divorced and need to sell or rent the property
4) Your employer requires you to work abroad in a different office for 2+ years (ultimatum) as there is no longer work in the Irish office, and you need to rent the property while abroad
5) Your neighbour becomes really disorderly and there has been so many conflicts that you need to sell/move
6) You fall in love with somebody who lives different part of the country and wants you to move in together (or the relationship ends)
7) You die - would the rebate still be paid back by your family

Thanks!

I wouldnt count on it, some of the examples mean nothing to revenue (no 6? ).

Remember it's proportional to how long you stay, if you sell after 4 years you only owe revenue 4k, so it's not that bad.

You can always not claim the rebate if it makes your uncomfortable, but that would be a terrible financial decision.

john_this

Ok agreed - some are more plausable than others, i.e. #6, however you could lose or job or be required to move offices abroad within 1yr of the rebate and possibly be liable for almost the full €20k.

GingerLily

john_this wrote: »

Ok agreed - some are more plausable than others, i.e. #6, however you could lose or job or be required to move offices abroad within 1yr of the rebate and possibly be liable for almost the full €20k.

Yes, rules are rules

Also, as long as you sell the house for at least what you bought it for, you've lost no money. Don't buy a house you think wouldn't resell well would be my advise

john_this

GingerLily wrote: »

Yes, rules are rules

Also, as long as you sell the house for at least what you bought it for, you've lost no money. Don't buy a house you think wouldn't resell well would be my advise

I think that’s a bit of a non-sensical response, obviously in this example the person does not want to sell/rent from the outset, however there will be unforeseen circumstances which can change and may not have a choice (and hopefully this doesn’t happen to you). The UK have tried to answer this for their HTB scheme and I believe take a “common sense” approach to each situation.

GingerLily

john_this wrote: »

I think that’s a bit of a non-sensical response, obviously in this example the person does not want to sell/rent from the outset, however there will be unforeseen circumstances which can change and may not have a choice (and hopefully this doesn’t happen to you). The UK have tried to answer this for their HTB scheme and I believe take a “common sense” approach to each situation.

Stating the obvious is not non-sensical

john_this

GingerLily wrote: »

Stating the obvious is not non-sensical

“Don't buy a house you think wouldn't resell”...
that may be your logic and mindset at the time but what if your personal circumstances change is what I’m trying to get accross.

Also what about renting, you may have to move your family abroad for a couple years through your profession. I think the HTB scheme is designed to avoid people intentionally taking advantage of the rebate, however no doubt there will be cases where the clawback could be unfair.

Westwood

Guys. Question if I may, I signed contracts back in June and possibly closing in mid October, I've applied for the rebate and got approved however I'm yet to get approved for 70LTV ratio which is there criteria, currently sitting at 68% with one bank and vigorously trying others to secure the higher loan amount. So I'm wondering what's the cut off point for this rebate, can It be claimed, right up until the closing bell or even after the sale has gone through? I know ideally it should have been drawn Down at deposit stage but that is all paid and builder never requested even tho we were approved....

GingerLily

Westwood wrote: »

Guys. Question if I may, I signed contracts back in June and possibly closing in mid October, I've applied for the rebate and got approved however I'm yet to get approved for 70LTV ratio which is there criteria, currently sitting at 68% with one bank and vigorously trying others to secure the higher loan amount. So I'm wondering what's the cut off point for this rebate, can It be claimed, right up until the closing bell or even after the sale has gone through? I know ideally it should have been drawn Down at deposit stage but that is all paid and builder never requested even tho we were approved....

Our rebate was claimed at closing - lots of developers don't accept it anymore at deposit stage!

z0oT

GingerLily wrote: »

Our rebate was claimed at closing - lots of developers don't accept it anymore at deposit stage!

If that was the case, I presume you would have just paid 5% at the contract signing stage? And that the contract would have specified that - ie. Deposit payable = 10% of Property Price - Booking Deposit - Help to Buy amount?

For us, it would seem the developer isn't yet set up to claim Help to Buy refunds from the revenue (they're not on the list of qualified contracters), but will be set up in the near future. According to the agent they're willing to honor it at a different stage. I need to talk to Revenue myself to see if and how this could work.

I'm not sure where it'll end up or whether we'll really be able to claim it, but our solicitor is trying to sort it out at the minute. We have our loan offer from the bank ready to go without the Help to Buy amount as a contingency in the meantime.

GingerLily

z0oT wrote: »

If that was the case, I presume you would have just paid 5% at the contract signing stage? And that the contract would have specified that - ie. Deposit payable = 10% of Property Price - Booking Deposit - Help to Buy amount?

For us, it would seem the developer isn't yet set up to claim Help to Buy refunds from the revenue (they're not on the list of qualified contracters), but will be set up in the near future. According to the agent they're willing to honor it at a different stage. I need to talk to Revenue myself to see if and how this could work.

I'm not sure where it'll end up or whether we'll really be able to claim it, but our solicitor is trying to sort it out at the minute. We have our loan offer from the bank ready to go without the Help to Buy amount as a contingency in the meantime.

I paid 10% at contract signing, our LTV is less than 90%.

A lot of developments in Dublin aren't accepting HTB as part of the 10% contracts, it goes against the spirit of the scheme but Revenue can't stop them.

z0oT

GingerLily wrote: »

I paid 10% at contract signing, our LTV is less than 90%.

It's not clear from your posts - Are you saying you paid 10% out of your own savings at the contract signing and then the 90% - The Help to Buy amount at closing?

Just trying to understand.

I wasn't aware that it could be done that way. I thought the Help to Buy had to be claimed and paid out at the contract signing stage.