Zero grazing costs.

Dawggone

Zero grazing is the work of the devil.
Never again. You'd want nothing else to do...

However it probably has a place in fragmented farms.

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Zero grazing is the work of the devil.
Never again. You'd want nothing else to do...

However it probably has a place in fragmented farms.

By that logic fragmented farms are the work of the devil

kowtow

Can one of the bale experts turn their mind to whether and how to produce non fermented or mildly fermented bales (basically hay or haylage) on the same schedule as surplus bales in the summer? And with an equally high feed value?

We Ted all silage once if not twice and wrap it up like haylage... the logic being that the less fermentation the better the milk tastes. Haven't tested any for dm etc although would be quite high ..but beginning to think towards next year and whether we can really figure out a haylage like bale with the power of silage.

What feed value for example would the cool more hay crop be?

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

By that logic fragmented farms are the work of the devil

Or...
The devil makes work for idle hands.

Postdriver

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

On the OP, as someone pointed out, you would have to add in the cost of spreading slurry to the total cost of the ZG as the grazing cows spread it themselves so that would add another bit onto the total cost.

But would the cost of spreading the slurry with a trailing shoe nice and evenly instead of the way a cow spreads it not be eliminated with the savings on fertiliser?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Postdriver wrote: »

But would the cost of spreading the slurry with a trailing shoe nice and evenly instead of the way a cow spreads it not be eliminated with the savings on fertiliser?

I think there will still be a fertilizer cost for N,P and K and lime depending on the overall soil fertility of the farm.

The N content in slurry is equivalent to a 50kg bag of 10:6:38 per 1000 gallons in spring and 3:6:38 in summer so you are going to need some bag fertilizer anyway especially in the summer.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/using-cattle-slurry-to-reduce-costs-26443943.html

I don't think there is as much cow pats in grazing ground as there used be with younger, more digestible grasses being grazed earlier now and there seems a better distribution of manure from cows which is broken down easier on the soil.

You may very well be right on that, though, but I see it as another job to be done and I'm getting lazy in my old age:)

Water John

A diet feeder is a more important tool for an autumn calving herd. Can make a mix to complete late autumn and early spring grass along with TMR through the winter.
A ZG could be used by a spring calving herd, on the shoulders of the year and fragmented holding. Also cut ahead of a rain front.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

Can one of the bale experts turn their mind to whether and how to produce non fermented or mildly fermented bales (basically hay or haylage) on the same schedule as surplus bales in the summer? And with an equally high feed value?

We Ted all silage once if not twice and wrap it up like haylage... the logic being that the less fermentation the better the milk tastes. Haven't tested any for dm etc although would be quite high ..but beginning to think towards next year and whether we can really figure out a haylage like bale with the power of silage.

What feed value for example would the cool more hay crop be?

Not a smart answer kt. Buy your own tedder. We started feeding bales hete yesterday made the last couple of days in Aug. Yielded around 2.5 bales per acre. Made with a fusion. 25-30% dm bales from those balers usually in the 850-900kg range, these ones around 650kg so I'm assuming dm close to 50. Purely accidental. Very light crop at the end of a prolonged dry period, no tedding as simply no need but perfectly preserved. If the right product goes in the right product will come out. Mj or Stan will be able to tell you how fast and with how many passes you can get this in more normal conditions. You know your own figures as to where it would become cost effective to have your own machine as against paying contracting charges for multiple passes with a tedder.

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

Not a smart answer kt. Buy your own tedder. We started feeding bales hete yesterday made the last couple of days in Aug. Yielded around 2.5 bales per acre. Made with a fusion. 25-30% dm bales from those balers usually in the 850-900kg range, these ones around 650kg so I'm assuming dm close to 50. Purely accidental. Very light crop at the end of a prolonged dry period, no tedding as simply no need but perfectly preserved. If the right product goes in the right product will come out. Mj or Stan will be able to tell you how fast and with how many passes you can get this in more normal conditions. You know your own figures as to where it would become cost effective to have your own machine as against paying contracting charges for multiple passes with a tedder.

I'm sure you are right .. apart from anything else our silage ground is a bit away and asking people to ted small crops repeatedly at busy times is a bit irritating... economically you are *definitely* right!

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

Can one of the bale experts turn their mind to whether and how to produce non fermented or mildly fermented bales (basically hay or haylage) on the same schedule as surplus bales in the summer? And with an equally high feed value?

We Ted all silage once if not twice and wrap it up like haylage... the logic being that the less fermentation the better the milk tastes. Haven't tested any for dm etc although would be quite high ..but beginning to think towards next year and whether we can really figure out a haylage like bale with the power of silage.

What feed value for example would the cool more hay crop be?

Do you know if its a specific part of the fermentation eg, lactic acid/acids in general, yeasts/moulds or some other smaller part of the process that effects the milk?
Formic acid in silage should stop around 80-90% of the fermentation while giving you top quality preservation but might taint the milk?
Propionic acid, urea or some sort of sulfur additive could be used on wet hay of around 30% moisture afaik maybe higher depending on product.
I'd say on an energy basis comparing top quality baled silage to hay from the same grass there would probably be around 10% less energy due to losing all the sugars during wilting.

Mooooo

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

kowtow wrote: »

Can one of the bale experts turn their mind to whether and how to produce non fermented or mildly fermented bales (basically hay or haylage) on the same schedule as surplus bales in the summer? And with an equally high feed value?

We Ted all silage once if not twice and wrap it up like haylage... the logic being that the less fermentation the better the milk tastes. Haven't tested any for dm etc although would be quite high ..but beginning to think towards next year and whether we can really figure out a haylage like bale with the power of silage.

What feed value for example would the cool more hay crop be?

Do you know if its a specific part of the fermentation eg, lactic acid/acids in general, yeasts/moulds or some other smaller part of the process that effects the milk?
Formic acid in silage should stop around 80-90% of the fermentation while giving you top quality preservation but might taint the milk?
Propionic acid, urea or some sort of sulfur additive could be used on wet hay of around 30% moisture afaik maybe higher depending on product.
I'd say on an energy basis comparing top quality baled silage to hay from the same grass there would probably be around 10% less energy due to losing all the sugars during wilting.

The extra wilting would likely drop the protein too?

freedominacup

freedominacup wrote: »

Not a smart answer kt. Buy your own tedder. We started feeding bales hete yesterday made the last couple of days in Aug. Yielded around 2.5 bales per acre. Made with a fusion. 25-30% dm bales from those balers usually in the 850-900kg range, these ones around 650kg so I'm assuming dm close to 50. Purely accidental. Very light crop at the end of a prolonged dry period, no tedding as simply no need but perfectly preserved. If the right product goes in the right product will come out. Mj or Stan will be able to tell you how fast and with how many passes you can get this in more normal conditions. You know your own figures as to where it would become cost effective to have your own machine as against paying contracting charges for multiple passes with a tedder.

Got a good response from these bales. No shortage of grass but cows dropped a litre plus last week. Got it all back plus a little more once bales were put in. Still climbing I think. 19 litres at around 3.9 and 4.5.

Water John

From now on Autumn grass won't have a great deal to contribute in keeping up yields and solids moreso. More important again for the Autumn calving cow.