Data Privacy

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Hi All

I am just wondering do any of you care at all about data privacy and do you think people should take it more seriously. I am growing frustrated with the general apathetic attitude of my friends with regards to this topic.

I've been interested in this for quite some time now and recently saw the Snowden movie which pissed me off. I think the scale of the snooping by the USA alone is frightening and extremely dangerous.

If you talk about data privacy with any friends they are generally clueless about it. I typically ask them to use different apps rather than WhatsApp to communicate with me because I hate the idea of the government reading all my messages.

A common argument that you will hear is that they have nothing to hide and don't write anything on WhatsApp which they wouldn't want anybody to see. This is not a valid argument. I simply counter this by telling them to hand me their phone, laptop and keys to their house. They have nothing to hide right? Nobody ever gave me their phones or data so I think the point is clear.

Another common argument is that usually all of their friends are using WhatsApp,Facebook,Instagram, Gmail, Snapchat, Dropbox and whatever other spyware you are having yourself. Particularly with social networks if there is nobody on it then what's the point right? I try to convince my friends to use Signal or Threema which are secure messaging services and I think you should too. Threema is a paid service and Signal is free. Both offer great privacy and have zero data retention which is what we should all be using. I try to convince my friends to use alternatives preferably based in Switzerland. For example Protonmail mail for email. I am not having much luck.

Nobody wants to change to better more privacy based services so if I want to communicate with friends I have to use spyware and it bugs me.

Also a lot of people simply cannot fathom the idea of paying for software services which I find quite sad. An app can only cost as little as 2€. People piss multiples of that away drinking Starbucks coffee everyday. If you don't pay by cash you will often pay with your data privacy and security.

The main issues I have is that I feel we are moving closer and closer to dystopia every year.

Here are just some horror stories for your delight which highlight the dangers:
http://goo.gl/fdhzGd
http://goo.gl/FsV6PP
Granted they took place in China and Dubai which are not exactly model societies in terms of freedom and justice but you get the point.
Interestingly Signal messenger was recently subpoenaed and had to handover all of their data. The best bit. The only data they had on their users was the registration time. Nothing else. Signal is free by the way.
http://goo.gl/820gqD
Surviving a subpoena is a hell of an endorsement if you ask me. Told me friends this. They are not interested.
Another thing people fail to consider is that the world is constantly changing and what's considered harmless today could be illegal or used against you in the future. The way politics in Europe is going we could be soon living in the fourth reich. Just look at Britain drawing up lists of foreigners. That's how it all began in Germany.

Seriously though if you are not convinced that privacy is more important read the two following books:
1984 by George Orwell
The Trial by Franz Kafka

Have any of you ever worried about Facebook getting hacked and everything you ever wrote in private to your friends could be made public? I reckon lots of friendsships and relationships could be ruined.

I think it's a long road ahead but we need to lead by example and make people are of the dangers. Apathy can not be tolerated and it is too important that people begin to care about this.

Another good article:
http://goo.gl/PMdquM

Are there any other boards privacy enthusiasts out there? Would love to here from you and know what can be done about this and how you guys try to counter it?

(Yes I am aware of the irony of using goo.gl and posting this on boards)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A common argument that you will hear is that they have nothing to hide and don't write anything on WhatsApp which they wouldn't want anybody to see. This is not a valid argument. I simply counter this by telling them to hand me their phone, laptop and keys to their house. They have nothing to hide right? Nobody ever gave me their phones or data so I think the point is clear.

I don't see the analogy. I have nothing online to hide. The only data of concern is my nine banking and that seems well protected. The comparison with giving your phone, laptop and house keys doesn't work as I have things in my house that can be easily stolen or damaged but not so online.

Due care and diligence are essential but within reason.

The Moldy Gowl

If the government wants to read about my spicy poos, then let them. They will get bored fairly fast.

If facebook wants to read my data and target ads at me, let them, I'll never click an online ad anyway.


I should care about my data being protected but it's too much effort and the vast majority of us are extremely boring people with nothing worth spying on.

I think a lot of it is tin foil hattery though.

OP doesn't want anyone finding out about his abundance of testicles....

jimmy blevins

When they came for the spicy poo's......

Deub

What is the risk if they read my messages on whatsapp or my emails?
What can they do with it?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Deub wrote: »

What is the risk if they read my messages on whatsapp or my emails?
What can they do with it?

Steal your identity
Impersonate you
Blackmail you
What if you did something and talked about it and in the future it's illegal and you are retroactively punished?

The Moldy Gowl

Karson Stocky Guru wrote: »

Steal your identity
Impersonate you
Blackmail you
What if you did something and talked about it and in the future it's illegal and you are retroactively punished?

You must have a big roll of tin foil.

Specialun

Most people dont actually understand the danger of data out in the wild nor do they understand what can happen the data. Social engineering is so easy these days

Canis Lupus

Would people be okay with microphones in their house after all they've nothing to hide and the government/private company is hardly interested in the sounds of you fapping to midget porn.

Personally I'm vaguely concerned about my data but mostly apathetic about it like most people.

Specialun

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

You must have a big roll of tin foil.

Complete garbage. You dont understand data or what the dangers are..its 10000000000% not tin foil hat ...i have seen cases 20 times over

Cookie_Monster

Karson Stocky Guru wrote: »

Steal your identity
Impersonate you
Blackmail you
What if you did something and talked about it and in the future it's illegal and you are retroactively punished?

the obvious and simple solution is don't use the apps, the internet, a smart-phone if you really have a problem with it because it's not going to change otherwise. Its your principles vs convenience

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the obvious and simple solution is don't use the apps, the internet, a smart-phone if you really have a problem with it because it's not going to change otherwise. Its your principles vs convenience

That's a simple solution but not an ideal one. My whole point is securing your online identity is possible but I am having problems educating people about the problems.

learn_more

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

I think a lot of it is tin foil hattery though.

Well, the way the OP worded his post and the reference to the novel 1984 etc one would might think he was one of those paranoid types...but whether he is or isn't , I agree with his fundamental point.

This is what I object to.

I object that any text based conversations on skype or whatever is remotely stored and can be interrogated retrospectively.

I object that my physical location is logged by my smartphone.

I object that my browsing habits are logged by my internet provider.

That's 3 things, conversations I have , my whereabouts and browsing history that provides a 'character profile' of me. If that's not surveillance I don't know what is. It makes video surveillance by CCTV cameras look trivial.

Just imagine if every verbal conversation you had before the internet was somehow recorded by say microphones planted in cafes, bars, buses, parks, pubs, nightclubs, homes. And that those conversations were just simply stored somehow but not listened to in a 'live' manner. Would you not have an objection to that ?

I think the Citizenfour Documentary was a real eye opener for me. I think it's all just shocking and the only reason I can think off that people don't care is that they simply don't understand it all.

petrolcan

Karson Stocky Guru wrote: »

That's a simple solution but not an ideal one. My whole point is securing your online identity is possible but I am having problems educating people about the problems.

If they are not willing to listen then it is no longer your problem.

johnty56

This is something that has concerned me for a while to be honest. I'm not very tech savvy, which also worries me..

If you think what a totalitarian regime could do with the information that is gathered about us as we go about our lives and use online facilities, it is really frightening. What concerns me, is what such a regime would or could do to even extended families of 'transgressors'.. the sins if the father being visited on the sons and all that.

What I don't understand is how much data is actually stored, and for how long? Are all phone calls actually recorded? How long is internet history stored for? Will changes in technology mean that data now stockpiled ( for example detailing my internet political readings or porn search history) be unavailable to viewers in 30-100 years?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

johnty56 wrote: »

This is something that has concerned me for a while to be honest. I'm not very tech savvy, which also worries me..

If you think what a totalitarian regime could do with the information that is gathered about us as we go about our lives and use online facilities, it is really frightening. What concerns me, is what such a regime would or could do to even extended families of 'transgressors'.. the sins if the father being visited on the sons and all that.

What I don't understand is how much data is actually stored, and for how long? Are all phone calls actually recorded? How long is internet history stored for? Will changes in technology mean that data now stockpiled ( for example detailing my internet political readings or porn search history) be unavailable to viewers in 30-100 years?

Posts and text messages are probably there forever. The NSA and GCHQ are actually mass gathering everything they can and making it searchable. Internet history is the least of your worries to be honest.

johnty56

Karson Stocky Guru wrote: »

Posts and text messages are probably there forever. The NSA and GCHQ are actually mass gathering everything they can and making it searchable. Internet history is the least of your worries to be honest.

Text messages etc are unlikely to reveal much about a persons thought processes or political leanings in general, but as I understand it, technology allows advertisers to determine what we read first on online papers etc, and obviously what we post etc. I had thought that due to tech changes, much of this would be meaningless data in years to come.. strange scenario that even if it all turns out well, our descendants will be able to see so much more about us than we think#!

Orwell would have genuinely had a stroke if he realised the truth of the future

andekwarhola

I pity the agents of evil that have to catalogue - and find worth in - the inane drivel that compromises most of my online discourse.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

If the government wants to see photos of my dogs, and read my stimulating thoughts on highly significant occurrences throughout the day, (for example, today I asked my dog where his bum was and he chased his tail) they're more than welcome to read it. I'm actually pretty boring really. Arguing with the OH or talking about whatever's caught my eye that day, I can't imagine they'll be queing up to read it.

I think people worry they might be more interesting than they actually are. Unless you're smuggling drugs and hustlin bitches, I doubt they'll even care enough to read your hey wua xx text.

johnty56

andekwarhola wrote: »

I pity the agents of evil that have to catalogue - and find worth in - the inane drivel that compromises most of my online discourse.

I think the reality for many, having grown up in a bubble of 'acceptance' is that they are unaware of how quickly reality can change. There are still people alive who can remember the systematic slaughter of 6000000 human beings, and not long before that 20,000,000 people were murdered by their own government ( Stalin's Russia) for 'non conformism'. In the case of Russia, many were condemned to death on the basis of information supplied by their family, friends, neighbours or work colleagues. Imagine what Stalin would have done with the information freely divulged by individuals today.

Homosexuality was illegal in many Western states until relatively recently. In Nazi Germany it could have resulted in your death. In the space of 30 years it went from being something a westerner had to hide, often in fear of their life, to something that is completely acceptable and commonplace. Imagine if that were to swing the other way. And millions of homosexuals had attested to their own 'crime' by their technological footprint.

Substitute homosexuality for any number of other 'transgressions;' and you might understand. No one in Germany in 1937 thought they would be shovelling murdered human bodies into incinerators in 5 years time. But they were.

riffmongous

Thanks for the op OP!

While I might be another faceless slug, I can think of a lot of jokes and things I've said online or in messages that could be used against me out of context if I ever did become a person of note.

riffmongous

Now I'm starting to get paranoid, might be getting near the time to close down the account :pac:

Cookie_Monster

don't forget they record all your phone calls too not just data

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/395843.stm
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/thousands-of-requests-made-to-secretly-track-irish-phone-calls-1.1822930

I spend a lot of time on the "Interview the person below you" thread. I reckon it was started by the NSA to get more information about us! Darn, I regret my 2000 posts in that thread.

Sure it's grand, I want my life story, along with my thoughts, fears and secrets to be widely available. Am going to have to write an email detailing my pre-internet days on Google as well.

JimmysCar

Won't somebody please think of the children!!!

Stigura

OP; When They come to power and start searching through every word and intonation of everything anyone's Ever said, on line or a phone; They'll find what you've been saying here. Then ye'll be right f**ked!

They'll make an example out of you. For trying to incite us sheeple to attempt to dodge them :cool:

CMOTDibbler

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If the government wants to see photos of my dogs, and read my stimulating thoughts on highly significant occurrences throughout the day, (for example, today I asked my dog where his bum was and he chased his tail) they're more than welcome to read it. I'm actually pretty boring really. Arguing with the OH or talking about whatever's caught my eye that day, I can't imagine they'll be queing up to read it.

I think people worry they might be more interesting than they actually are. Unless you're smuggling drugs and hustlin bitches, I doubt they'll even care enough to read your hey wua xx text.

Putting aside the obvious non-interest the government has in your dogs, as someone above said, that knowledge would be very useful to someone who wants to defraud you or the people you work for.

Many hacks now are targetted at businesses through their employees. Some are very crude and take a shotgun approach. Others are much more insidious and are designed at getting access to your work computer or other data sources and either stealing data or mimicing your actions to defraud third parties who may trust you.

Edit: Your online presence is a trust relationship. People who know you and link with you through these portals trust this presence as if it were you standing in front of them.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Putting aside the obvious non-interest the government has in your dogs, as someone above said, that knowledge would be very useful to someone who wants to defraud you or the people you work for.

Many hacks now are targetted at businesses through their employees. Some are very crude and take a shotgun approach. Others are much more insidious and are designed at getting access to your work computer or other data sources and either stealing data or mimicing your actions to defraud third parties who may trust you.

Edit: Your online presence is a trust relationship. People who know you and link with you through these portals trust this presence as if it were you standing in front of them.

"Give me 1000 euro or I'll leak your dog sleeping snoring video"
Em, I don't think he'll be embarrassed, leak away pet.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Putting aside the obvious non-interest the government has in your dogs, as someone above said, that knowledge would be very useful to someone who wants to defraud you or the people you work for.

Many hacks now are targetted at businesses through their employees. Some are very crude and take a shotgun approach. Others are much more insidious and are designed at getting access to your work computer or other data sources and either stealing data or mimicing your actions to defraud third parties who may trust you.

Edit: Your online presence is a trust relationship. People who know you and link with you through these portals trust this presence as if it were you standing in front of them.

I don't get that at all. Nothing online from me would help any hacker in any way. You'd want to be very naïve to post things on line that could be of value to anybody who might access your data. My online presence is most certainly not a trust relationship nor indeed any kind of relationship at all.

Penny Tration

You sound like my OH's brother, OP. He deleted his online social media accounts, won't use WhatsApp or other messaging services, not even text messages, and exclusively uses protonmail for communicating.


As a result, he doesn't speak to his family much because none of them are arsed to install special sh!t to speak to him.