Journalism and cycling

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

IIRC, it was mentioned in 'slaying the badger', one of the books i've read more recently, about hinault being from a very working class background and this being quite typical.

Correct. Cycling in Europe was classified as a working class sport back in the day and what some say were the best days of cycling. That was also said of the followers of bike racing. However, in UK, USA, it could be argued that it was somewhat more elitist.

The working class tag is not applicable today, so McWilliams search for new ‘ soundbite’ tags (e.g. breakfast roll man) is way off.

buffalo

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

It's the laziest thing I've seen in ages. Not so much phoned in as yawned from beneath a duvet.

Even the responses are unimaginative:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cycling-the-best-circles-1.3504676

CramCycle

buffalo wrote: »

Even the responses are unimaginative:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cycling-the-best-circles-1.3504676

The fact that Alan thinks that Irish Times has had excellent standards in recent times does not warm me to his opinion.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

Apparently the AA are a registered lobby group. I was wondering, are there issues with showing bias by actively letting a lobby group have so much airtime on the national airwaves. Seems like it shouldn't be allowed but I don't know enough on the area.

http://blog.hereshow.ie/2016/06/heres-how-41-donal-byrne-of-rte/

Some discussion there.

CramCycle

Its nice to see everyone can pat themselves on the back in such matters though, rather than having them heard out:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/court-rejects-legal-challenge-to-aa-traffic-broadcasts-1.318119

They both admit the sponsorship and then deny it within the same statement.

CapnHex

We need a Cyclelane Watch. Cyclists moving freely on Clonskea Road. Usual bottleneck on Beaver Row. Use alternative route.

buffalo

CapnHex wrote: »

We need a Cyclelane Watch. Cyclists moving freely on Clonskea Road. Usual bottleneck on Beaver Row. Use alternative route.

You might be interested in this: http://irishsportives.ie/please-sign-our-petition/

For the duration of National Bike Week, June 9th – 17th, we are calling on AA Roadwatch to sign off on each bulletin with the words “And if you’re commuting by bike, there are no delays to report and you will almost certainly arrive at the same time as you do every other day”.

Arcade_Tryer

buffalo wrote: »

You might be interested in this: http://irishsportives.ie/please-sign-our-petition/

No, it's too clever and it might annoy motorists.

CramCycle

I am a member if the AA. i wonder, if enough members put pressure rather than a cycle organisation, would that have more of an effect. Certainly worth tweeting Conor about the petition.

Moflojo

Interesting article here which is only a little bit about cycling, but it's also a lot about cycling. It wades into some of the hypocrisy surrounding doping in sport, and how soccer doesn't seem to come in for the same criticism as other sports, despite the questions that have arisen.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/ewan-mackenna-there-are-murky-questions-surrounding-spanish-footballs-golden-era-and-people-might-not-like-the-answers-36943284.html

CramCycle

Its interesting in so much as its published in a national paper but all of that has been well documented for years. Soccer doesn't want to find things, so they don't. Cycling does, so they do.

An interesting article but nothing unknown, soccer players admit doping regularly and it doesn't even get an eyebrow raised.

Moflojo

CramCycle wrote: »

Its interesting in so much as its published in a national paper but all of that has been well documented for years. Soccer doesn't want to find things, so they don't. Cycling does, so they do.

An interesting article but nothing unknown, soccer players admit doping regularly and it doesn't even get an eyebrow raised.

Jaysus that was condescending! Thanks!

CramCycle

Moflojo wrote: »

Jaysus that was condescending! Thanks!

I didn't mean it in a condescending way. Its very well written as his articles often are. I suppose I just don't care as soccer fans like rugby fans, just don't care. I also have worked with people who were at conferences where they admitted doping and did not realise it. I suppose my point was, as well written as his article was, it changes nothing. No premiership fan is going to read it and be disgusted, look deeper into it, same with pro12 fans. They'll either gloss over it or call him a crank and then gloss over it

I have friends who are sports scientists/physiologists/ whatever, but I mention doping in Rugby and they think I am having a dig. I love watching Rugby but to me its like wrestling without the script. If you think they are all clean, more fool you. I get that the displays and physiques presented together do not fit in a non enhanced world. Same with certain soccer players. The truth is, fans of both fall typically into two categories, deniers who even if given proof claim its a skills only game and doping is of no help and the other, myself included who just park our annoyance at the door and treat it like a good matinee.

Cycling fans are different to an extent because we push a little harder but we all still watch, so we're not that much better.

Hurrache

In fairness many rugby fans do care, the thread on Grobler shows this to be the case. Many thought he should never play again, or at least not in Ireland. Others believe he was young and dumb and served his punishment. But they did care. The IRFU made a balls of it.

McKenna has written nothing new, but getting a lot of credit for his "excellent" investigation on this which is bizarre as it was often discussed in this forum and mentioned in the athletics forum.

My view on McKenna has been somewhat sullied though as he can be a big dick at times, believing in his own hype I guess.

Rechuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

I love watching Rugby but to me its like wrestling without the script. If you think they are all clean, more fool you. I get that the displays and physiques presented together do not fit in a non enhanced world. Same with certain soccer players.

So true. Rugger players look so roidy now. If you compare team photos of today's teams with those of the 1930s, say, it's very obvious that something is being used for the unattractive bulking-up.

Rechuchote

This should probably be on a more tech thread, but… 

https://twitter.com/PrecisionHomes_/status/996670081022210048

magicbastarder

Rechuchote wrote: »

So true. Rugger players look so roidy now. If you compare team photos of today's teams with those of the 1930s, say, it's very obvious that something is being used for the unattractive bulking-up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdI0g3rENcQ

Hurrache

Rechuchote wrote: »

So true. Rugger players look so roidy now. If you compare team photos of today's teams with those of the 1930s, say, it's very obvious that something is being used for the unattractive bulking-up.

There's no comparison. Ordinary men, never mind men who are paid to work out and train all day, look much fitter than those from almost 100 years ago. It's an invalid comparison. Diet alone between now and then plays a massive part in that difference.

Duckjob

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdI0g3rENcQ

ROFL at the guy at 0:12 doing a bit of air guitar

gmacww

CramCycle wrote: »

I suppose I just don't care as soccer fans like rugby fans, just don't care.

I've said it before in other threads but I think it's to do with the "following" of the sport in so far as it creates tribalism. Cycling most fans follow the rider with a few exceptions and part of that reason is the financial structure within cycling. Can't be guaranteed all teams currently will still be here in 5 years. What this means though is that you don't have that same tribalism that you do in soccer and rugby. Chelsea fans, Liverpool fans etc...

If you told a Liverpool fan for example that there is a big exposure coming up regarding United and a doping program that could result in all their trophies from the 90's/00's wiped out every one of them would want that full investigation. If however you told them that a big football in general investigation was coming very few would be interested. Why? Because of the off chance their own team is involved. Football and Rugby fans turn the other way because deep down they fear for what their own club is doing. Do they want that out in the open? Not at all.

Rechuchote

Hurrache wrote: »

There's no comparison. Ordinary men, never mind men who are paid to work out and train all day, look much fitter than those from almost 100 years ago. It's an invalid comparison. Diet alone between now and then plays a massive part in that difference.

Mmmyes, but ordinary men don't look so swollen. Rugger players from the 1900s, 1930s, 1960s, even 1980s looked like strong ordinary men. Then they started ballooning up like the Hulk.



(What I love most about these photos is how awfully French the French team look, and how awfully Irish the Irish team look!)

Fian

Two articles from today's guardian:


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2018/may/31/rise-ultra-cyclists-london-wales-london-audax

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/why-so-hard-charge-motorists-cycling-deaths

For what it is worth, with regard to the second article, I completely disagree with charging motorists with murder for an accidental killing of a cyclist. Murder means intending to kill or cause serious injury. Death by dangerous driving is a seperate offence for a reason. There is a qualitative moral difference between driving badly (or even recklessly) and accidentally killing someone and deliberately setting out to seriously hurt someone. Which doesn't mean that a custodial sentence should not be imposed for a death by dangerous driving conviction, and it normally is.


Of course the intention makes little difference to the impact on the victim or the victim's family.

magicbastarder

Fian wrote: »

Murder means intending to kill or cause serious injury.

nope; murder can be committed by someone who is wilfully reckless towards human life, without actual intent.

Fighting Tao

Looking at some of the videos in the close passes thread, I think murder could be valid option if the cyclist was knocked off their bike and died.

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

nope; murder can be committed by someone who is wilfully reckless towards human life, without actual intent.

Reckless killing can be manslaughter but not murder in ireland. For murder you must intend to kill or cause serious injury, though the law reform commission has recommended it should be expanded to cover some wilfully reckless acts:

The Commission considers that the label “murder” should cover the most heinous killings. The Commission therefore recommends that it should continue to be murder where the accused intended to kill or cause serious injury; but the Commission also recommends that the mental element in murder should be broadened to include reckless killings manifesting an extreme indifference to human life. Under this proposal, a person who planted a bomb in a busy office block could be convicted of murder if someone dies in the blast even if his main purpose was to cause criminal damage, rather than to injure or kill anyone

http://www.lawreform.ie/2008/290108-report-on-homocide-murder-and-involuntary-manslaughter.180.html

magicbastarder

hmm. i thought they'd changed it after that chap set fire to tallaght garda station. must not have happened.

Rechuchote

You can be charged with murder if you kill in the course of committing a crime, too - like if you're robbing a bank and you shoot someone and they die.

magicbastarder

i think that's what is referred to as a felony murder in the US.

ED E

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/drumnamether-road-tandragee-closed-after-14730668.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

hmm. i thought they'd changed it after that chap set fire to tallaght garda station. must not have happened.

Well maybe there has been a recent change?

I used to practice criminal law but not in the last 15 years, though tbh I would be surprised if they had changed the law on murder and i was unaware of it.