RAW Superthread

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It reminds me of what Edge and Christian were saying to Bret and Stone Cold on their podcast. That match felt like a fight and so does this.

Im not getting that to be honest, for me Austin and Bret was built over a number of months, from survivor series through the rumble to mania, with "animosity" building along with it culminating in the fight that resulted in getting Austin over as a baby face and turning Bret heel.

Whether its a fight or not, this match has not had a build like that, its been thrown together over the last 3 or 4 weeks despite everybody knowing it was happening for nearly a year, the best they could do was, oh Brocks not here, blah blah, Brock comes back destroys Reigns, and now we are to believe Reigns is the underdog, and cheer him, no i cant cos i already know he is the company's chosen one and this match is for him, and i have no problem with that because at this stage, i couldnt care less about either of them now

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Im not getting that to be honest, for me Austin and Bret was built over a number of months, from survivor series through the rumble to mania, with "animosity" building along with it culminating in the fight that resulted in getting Austin over as a baby face and turning Bret heel.

Whether its a fight or not, this match has not had a build like that, its been thrown together over the last 3 or 4 weeks despite everybody knowing it was happening for nearly a year, the best they could do was, oh Brocks not here, blah blah, Brock comes back destroys Reigns, and now we are to believe Reigns is the underdog, and cheer him, no i cant cos i already know he is the company's chosen one and this match is for him, and i have no problem with that because at this stage, i couldnt care less about either of them now

The last meeting of these two at Mania was one of the most physical main events we've seen and was most definitely a fight. The fans last night were totally absorbed when Brock and Roman got into it unlike anything else on the show.

Sounds like your personal dislike of them is clouding your ability to judge it reasonably. You may not want it to work but the reaction suggests otherwise. Saw last week that the Youtube views for the Reigns/Brock segment hit over 9 million while Daniel Bryan's return promo got a little over 2.5 million.

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The last meeting of these two at Mania was one of the most physical main events we've seen and was most definitely a fight. The fans last night were totally absorbed when Brock and Roman got into it unlike anything else on the show.

Sounds like your personal dislike of them is clouding your ability to judge it reasonably. You may not want it to work but the reaction suggests otherwise. Saw last week that the Youtube views for the Reigns/Brock segment hit over 9 million while Daniel Bryan's return promo got a little over 2.5 million.

Im watching it again and the fans dont look totally absorbed as you say, most of them are smiling and cheering especially at brock beating down reigns, i dont have a personal dislike for either of them, i just dont care, im sure it'll work and it'll be everything you say it will, but its just a match i have very little interest in as the outcome is fairly predictable.

Rock Lesnar

It was also the start of the show, of course the crowd should be at their liveliest and i wouldnt judge anything that happened afterwards in terms of getting the crowd involved to be honest

Thepoet85

SureYWouldntYa wrote:

All I know is there's no way Roman can overcome these odds, the odds are literally stacked against him

It's a bit of a juxtaposition to have him as the big dog and the under dog.

Make your mind up Vince.

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Im watching it again and the fans dont look totally absorbed as you say, most of them are smiling and cheering especially at brock beating down reigns, i dont have a personal dislike for either of them, i just dont care, im sure it'll work and it'll be everything you say it will, but its just a match i have very little interest in as the outcome is fairly predictable.

They are all standing and no one is taking their eyes off it. That's what you call being absorbed. Listen to the reaction when Brock gives him the belly-to-belly.

Your subsequent excuse about it being the start of the show, course they'd be interested etc. shows you are coming at it with a closed mind.

You don't like it, that's fine, but plenty of people do. And I see it already has more Youtube views less than 24 hours after it aired than the Bryan return promo has currently after a week.

Lithium93_

Besides the oh so obvious coronation of King Roman :pac:

Looking at the current Wrestlemania card, of the 11 matches announced so far, there's only 3 matches on the show I'm actually interested in..

PTH2009

maybe taker leaving his stuff in ring means something like

'mania is the only time I'll wrestle again and I'm leaving my stuff in the ring one day to return'

Reigns thinks he retired taker

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

They are all standing and no one is taking their eyes off it. That's what you call being absorbed. Listen to the reaction when Brock gives him the belly-to-belly.

Your subsequent excuse about it being the start of the show, course they'd be interested etc. shows you are coming at it with a closed mind.

You don't like it, that's fine, but plenty of people do. And I see it already has more Youtube views less than 24 hours after it aired than the Bryan return promo has currently after a week.

Closed mind, ha, Of course they were standing, of course they're watching it, do you honestly believe that they'd turn their back to it, i was watching it to, not because i was absorbed by it, but because it was there in front of me, i said they cheered when brock beat him down, didnt disagree with you on that.

You say i dont like it, and i have a closed mind to it, but I could say the same about you, you like it, you have an interest in it, you check youtube hits on it, thats fine, thats your business, i said i had no problem with Reigns, he is the chosen one, just like others before, i just have no interest in the match so please dont tell me its because i dont like it when iv'e no feelings towards it whatsoever

SureYWouldntYa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

They are gearing the story to those fans that aren't entitled brats trying to make everything about themselves.

Did smarks piss in your corn flakes every morning for a year?

Your hatred for fans who don't like Reigns is probably more than those who dislike Reigns

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote:

Closed mind, ha, Of course they were standing, of course they're watching it, do you honestly believe that they'd turn their back to it, i was watching it to, not because i was absorbed by it, but because it was there in front of me, i said they cheered when brock beat him down, didnt disagree with you on that.

You say i dont like it, and i have a closed mind to it, but I could say the same about you, you like it, you have an interest in it, you check youtube hits on it, thats fine, thats your business, i said i had no problem with Reigns, he is the chosen one, just like others before, i just have no interest in the match so please dont tell me its because i dont like it when iv'e no feelings towards it whatsoever

I don't know about you but I find I don't tend to get to my feet and scream when I'm looking at something that doesn't absorb me. I don't think I'm unique there. If people felt like you claimed you did and "couldn't care less about either of them" why would they be on their feet, screaming, not taking their eyes away. If they felt your incredible levels of apathy, presumably they'd be seated, on their phones, maybe try to start a boring chant.

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Did smarks piss in your corn flakes every morning for a year?

No, they get scared of the guard dawg:

Loughc

When did Mr Nice Guy turn heel?

Don’t get me wrong his heel work is fantastic completely getting a reaction the turn is well written and structured and it’s getting him over but I can’t remember when he turned.

Mr.Nice Guy

Loughc wrote: »

When did Mr Nice Guy turn heel?

Don’t get me wrong his heel work is fantastic completely getting a reaction the turn is well written and structured and it’s getting him over but I can’t remember when he turned.

*cue Sting theme*

"When a man's heart..."

On the contrary the forum has taken a turn akin to mid-90s WWF and WCW with a swing towards heels.

This toxic negativity and constant complaining has resulted in previously babyface opinions like "give X a chance", "the show had some good things" being met with a barrage of criticism and sly barbs from cliques lest any positive commentary be made that counters the accepted narrative.

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't know about you but I find I don't tend to get to my feet and scream when I'm looking at something that doesn't absorb me. I don't think I'm unique there. If people felt like you claimed you did and "couldn't care less about either of them" why would they be on their feet, screaming, not taking their eyes away. If they felt your incredible levels of apathy, presumably they'd be seated, on their phones, maybe try to start a boring chant

Ok i get it, you like it....alot, i said they all werent totally absorbed, they were watching it, i said they were smiling and even actually cheered when brock beat him down, i said i watched it and wasnt absorbed, im not sure what else you want me to say.....oh wait how about this, everbody loves it, i loved it, loved every second of it, even watched it 8.9m times on youtube, the match is gonna be a classic and i cant wait to watch it, go big dawg go

Rock Lesnar

I'll say it again, i have no negativity about Reigns or Lesnar, i just have no interest

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Ok i get it, you like it....alot, i said they all werent totally absorbed, i said they were smiling and actually cheered when brock beat him down, i said i watched it and wasnylt absorbed, im not sure what else you want me to say.....oh wait how about this, everbody loves it, i loved it, loved every second of it, even watched it 8.9m times on youtube, the match is gonna be a classic and i cant wait to watch it, go big dawg go

Bizarre how you act like I'm not accepting your viewpoint when you were the one that originally took exception with MY view that it felt like a fight akin to Bret and Austin in your 8:35 post. I've no problem what you think of the feud. I merely pointed out that many like myself are absorbed by it.

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Bizarre how you act like I'm not accepting your viewpoint when you were the one that originally took exception with MY view that it felt like a fight akin to Bret and Austin in your 8:35 post. I've no problem what you think of the feud. I merely pointed out that many like myself are absorbed by it.

But you're not, you're saying because i have no interest in them, its because i dont like it, or i have negativity towards them, while i keep saying i have no problem with either of them, even mentioned Reigns to, i disagreed with the fight comparison because in my opinion this is nothing like Austin and Bret, that match was a classic, that told a story which ended a 6 month feud, and i just dont think this match, will be anything like that, time will tell if it is and i'll hopefully be proved wrong

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

On the contrary the forum has taken a turn akin to mid-90s WWF and WCW with a swing towards heels.

This toxic negativity and constant complaining has resulted in previously babyface opinions like "give X a chance", "the show had some good things" being met with a barrage of criticism and sly barbs from cliques lest any positive commentary be made that counters the accepted narrative.

Seriously. People can have opinions that differ from yours without it being a clique or an ''accepted narrative.''

FWIW I enjoyed the segment with Brock and Roman this week and last week but it's more to with Brock being an ass kicker. It could've been anyone in there with him and I'd have liked it. I like seeing him kill Heath Slater as much as I like seeing him kill Roman, Randy or Cena.

J. Marston

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

*cue Sting theme*

"When a man's heart..."

On the contrary the forum has taken a turn akin to mid-90s WWF and WCW with a swing towards heels.

This toxic negativity and constant complaining has resulted in previously babyface opinions like "give X a chance", "the show had some good things" being met with a barrage of criticism and sly barbs from cliques lest any positive commentary be made that counters the accepted narrative.

What cliques? This isn't the soccer forum.

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

But you're not, you're saying because i have no interest in them, its because i dont like it, or i have negativity towards them, while i keep saying i have no problem with either of them, even mentioned Reigns to, i disagreed with the fight comparison because in my opinion this is nothing like Austin and Bret, that match was a classic, that told a story which ended a 6 month feud, and i just dont think this match, will be anything like that, time will tell if it is and i'll hopefully be proved wrong

Let's look at your words:"now we are to believe Reigns is the underdog, and cheer him, no i cant cos i already know he is the company's chosen one and this match is for him,"

You've just acknowledged there that you can't cheer him because you know he is the company's chosen one. These are your own words.

You then seem to contradict yourself in your final lines: "i have no problem with that because at this stage, i couldnt care less about either of them now" You seem to have a problem with it based on your previous remarks.

Can you understand now why I think that your personal dislike affects your ability to judge whether or not this is a "fight"? I'll reiterate that I don't have a problem with your view, but it doesn't sound like you are able to separate your personal dislike of both men from judging things based on what I'm reading.

Omackeral wrote:

Seriously. People can have opinions that differ from yours without it being a clique or an ''accepted narrative.''

I guess that light-hearted comment struck a nerve, though when I remember back to some of our discussions last year I can understand why.

J. Marston wrote:

What cliques? This isn't the soccer forum.

There are some cliques around and it becomes evident on certain topics. I have found it uncomfortable at times but it's not something I wish to harp on about.

SureYWouldntYa

Omackeral wrote: »

Seriously. People can have opinions that differ from yours without it being a clique or an ''accepted narrative.''

This

I don't think anyone really has a problem with Mr Nice Guy having a differing opinion but there's really no need for the derisory remarks about the crowd who go against Reigns and by proxy the people here who dislike Roman Reigns and the nonsensical direction and booking

Mr.Nice Guy

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

This

I don't think anyone really has a problem with Mr Nice Guy having a differing opinion but there's really no need for the derisory remarks about the crowd who go against Reigns and by proxy the people here who dislike Roman Reigns and the nonsensical direction and booking

It would seem plenty of people have a problem with my opinions judging by the tone of some comments.

Can you explain to me why is it so beyond the pale of me to be derisory towards an audience that I consider to be spoiling the show? I wonder do you get similarly vexed when people make derisory comments using much stronger and courser language, such as on PPV threads: "f*ck you Reigns", or "f*ck you Vince" etc?

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Let's look at your words:"now we are to believe Reigns is the underdog, and cheer him, no i cant cos i already know he is the company's chosen one and this match is for him,"

You've just acknowledged there that you can't cheer him because you know he is the company's chosen one. These are your own words.

You then seem to contradict yourself in your final lines: "i have no problem with that because at this stage, i couldnt care less about either of them now" You seem to have a problem with it based on your previous remarks.

Can you understand now why I think that your personal dislike affects your ability to judge whether or not this is a "fight"? I'll reiterate that I don't have a problem with your view, but it doesn't sound like you are able to separate your personal dislike of both men from judging things based on what I'm reading.

Ok maybe i should have phrased it differently, i'll give you that, but I taught my opinions were already known about how i felt, i meant in general terms, as in giving anybody a reason to get interested in it, to cheer Reigns, it could be anybody in his position and i'd still feel the same, its very hard to get involved in it because unless something bizaare changes, the outcome is very predictable.

Rock Lesnar

And just to be clear again, i really really dont dislike or have a problem with either of them, Reigns is the company guy and Lesnar is Lesnar, he does his own thing, but i do like Samoa Joe, I like Bray Wyatt, still think that character could go places if got behind properly but that ship has sailed now, i also like Strowman when hes not doing the stupid stuff backstage, and i especially like The Miz

Mr.Nice Guy

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Ok maybe i should have phrased it differently, i'll give you that, but I taught my opinions were already known about how i felt, i meant in general terms, as in giving anybody a reason to get interested in it, to cheer Reigns, it could be anybody in his position and i'd still feel the same, its very hard to get involved in it because unless something bizaare changes, the outcome is very predictable.

Well their altercation last week has just shy of 9.5m views on Youtube and just 24 hours after last night's fresh one they have 3.2m views. No other feud is doing anywhere close to those numbers so that would indicate there is ongoing and substantial interest. There's a tendency to place too much stock in the opinion of smarks (if some don't like that term, let's say die-hards). These people will pay the most and will shout the loudest but they are not the majority audience view. The Cena experience taught them that.

As for Mania being predictable, I hear this a lot and find it amusing because loads of the main events are. Triple H coming back from injury to beat Jericho and get revenge on Steph was predictable; Brock beating Kurt whose neck everyone knew was totally screwed up was predictable; Batista beating Triple H and becoming the new top guy was predictable; Taker retiring Michaels and keeping alive the streak was predictable; Cena vs Rock II was predictable with Cena getting his win back; Bryan winning the title over Orton and Batista after they changed plans to accommodate him was predictable. And that's without getting into the Hogan on top years!

And for the record, I respect your views and hope I didn't convey the impression of dismissiveness. To be perfectly honest with you, lately I've increasingly been reluctant to share my views on here because I seem to be in a minority of one in actually enjoying the current stuff. I get the impression when I read here each week that the majority opinions are almost always negative and it can be exasperating trying to offer an alternative view; so most of the time I won't.

SureYWouldntYa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It would seem plenty of people have a problem with my opinions judging by the tone of some comments.

Can you explain to me why is it so beyond the pale of me to be derisory towards an audience that I consider to be spoiling the show? I wonder do you get similarly vexed when people make derisory comments using much stronger and courser language, such as on PPV threads: "f*ck you Reigns", or "f*ck you Vince" etc?

Plenty of people disagree with your views, i wouldnt think many would have an actual problem with it however

Other than the night after Wrestlemania which is a different kettle of fish to the other 51 weeks of Raw I don’t see how the vocal crowd is ‘ruining’ the show

Or do you mean that fans not reacting in the ‘appropriate’ way is ruining the show?

SureYWouldntYa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Well their altercation last week has just shy of 9.5m views on Youtube and just 24 hours after last night's fresh one they have 3.2m views.

It has such views because people are delighted to see Reigns get destroyed. Same when Braun destroyed him for several weeks after Mania last year.

That’s the crux of all this, Reigns is in the wrong role, them sticking with him like this because it worked for years with Cena doesn’t mean it’s the right role

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I guess that light-hearted comment struck a nerve, though when I remember back to some of our discussions last year I can understand why.

Nice bit of passive aggression, wouldn’t expect any less to be honest. You’re barking up the wrong tree if you think you’ve struck a nerve with me, I’m one of the most easy going posters on this forum. You are unbelievably bitter though. Your “light hearted comment” was preceded by bemoaning the constant criticism and toxic nature of this forum... far from light hearted. You take this fake fighting far too seriously IMO.

Mossy Monk

Has Ronda Rousey been booed yet? It won't be long if she hasn't as she has the personality of a wet plank of wood.