Cork train delayed at Limerick Junction

pat ticket

So once again I'm on the Dublin - Cork train and once again we've had to wait 5+ mins at LJ because the connecting Limerick train is delayed. I've been doing this return trip weekly for months and this happens very regularly.

Can anyone explain why this happens? There's not much traffic/stations on the line out of Limerick so shouldn't the Limerick shuttle be on time all the time?

flyingsnail

All of the lines in and out of Limerick are single track so any delay tends to have a knock on effect to other services and residual delays tend to linger for a while.

Del.Monte

And 5+ minutes doesn't amount to a delay in my books.

TheQuietFella

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/it-happened-in-five-blinks-of-the-eye-man-passes-away-on-train-returning-home-from-ploughing-championships-35073107.html

Maybe they were looking after this unfortunate?

Terrible of them to have kept you waiting!

pat ticket

Del.Monte wrote: »

And 5+ minutes doesn't amount to a delay in my books.

Well the 19.00 ex Dublin is scheduled to arrive into Kent at 21.45, it just departed Mallow a couple of minutes ago. Looks like it won't get into Cork until after 22.00. That not late in your books either?

pat ticket

Maybe they were looking after this unfortunate?

Terrible of them to have kept you waiting![/quote]

Yes that happened on Tuesday, did you even bother reading the link before posting it?

TheQuietFella

pat ticket wrote: »

Maybe they were looking after this unfortunate?

Terrible of them to have kept you waiting!

Yes that happened on Tuesday, did you even bother reading the link before posting it?[/QUOTE]

No!

Del.Monte

pat ticket wrote: »

Well the 19.00 ex Dublin is scheduled to arrive into Kent at 21.45, it just departed Mallow a couple of minutes ago. Looks like it won't get into Cork until after 22.00. That not late in your books either?

5+ mins and 15+ mins are quite different things - or they were when I was at school - before the flood.

pat ticket

Del.Monte wrote: »

5+ mins and 15+ mins are quite different things - or they were when I was at school - before the flood.

Good to know mate, cheers for your insightful posts on this thread.

man98

pat ticket wrote: »

Good to know mate, cheers for your insightful posts on this thread.

Actually I believe the point (in general) where any mode of transport is classed as delayed/ late is when it's running 15 minutes or more behind schedule. Five minutes can be an inconvenience, yes, I've missed tight connections over something as simple as that, but for most people it makes little or no difference.

pat ticket

man98 wrote: »

Actually I believe the point (in general) where any mode of transport is classed as delayed/ late is when it's running 15 minutes or more behind schedule. Five minutes can be an inconvenience, yes, I've missed tight connections over something as simple as that, but for most people it makes little or no difference.

The train was over 15 mins late arriving into Kent.

Jamie2k9

The 18,00 and 19.00 Heuston-Cork are always delayed day in day out. Not always to do with Limerick J however.

Heuston really needs a proper timetable review but not happening for a few months.

pat ticket

Bonus post - seat reservations weren't working (again).

savagethegoat

Have you contacted IE with your concerns?

Jamie2k9

savagethegoat wrote: »

Have you contacted IE with your concerns?

Don't wast your time, new timetable is needed overall.

Works in Limerick may be adding to the problem at the minute.

pat ticket

savagethegoat wrote: »

Have you contacted IE with your concerns?

What Jamie2k9 said. One would presume IE are already aware of recurring delays on one of its flagship services.

On the seat reservations not showing above the seat, this appears to be an ongoing issue since its introduction several years ago now (going off posts on here and elsewhere).

BonkeyDonker

One thing I never understood about Limerick junction was why it only has platforms on one side. Surely a lot of delays could be solved by having platforms on both sides of the track and thus saving trains crossing each other?

Jamie2k9

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

One thing I never understood about Limerick junction was why it only has platforms on one side. Surely a lot of delays could be solved by having platforms on both sides of the track and thus saving trains crossing each other?

IE have said they plan a second but it wont solve a lot just reduce the wait for Limerick shuttle.

pat ticket

The latest. On the 19.20 from Cork. Seat reservations again not working, though this time sheets of paper have been left on reserved seats, which is nice.

Approaching LJ with trepidation, surely there can be no delays this time given its a sleepy Sunday (though there has been on the Sunday 19.20 before).

If there is, then lets hope its one of those little delays which shouldn't be a big deal like the lads up thread mentioned and I can make my connection (unlike last Friday).

Jamie2k9

pat ticket wrote: »

The latest. On the 19.20 from Cork. Seat reservations again not working, though this time sheets of paper have been left on reserved seats, which is nice.

Approaching LJ with trepidation, surely there can be no delays this time given its a sleepy Sunday (though there has been on the Sunday 19.20 before).

If there is, then lets hope its one of those little delays which shouldn't be a big deal like the lads up thread mentioned and I can make my connection (unlike last Friday).

19.20 was on time until it was delayed at Limerick J, restricted operations at Lmireick most likely to blame but only a temp thing.

pat ticket

Yup, though it was also delayed coming into LJ (went slow for a while around Charleville). Left Thurles approximately 12 mins behind schedule but made it up on the run into Heuston, was only a few minutes behind schedule in the end.

Good-ish job IE!

Losty Dublin

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

One thing I never understood about Limerick junction was why it only has platforms on one side. Surely a lot of delays could be solved by having platforms on both sides of the track and thus saving trains crossing each other?

Limerick Junction was built as a connecting station only. Having an island platform made changing trains and loading and unloading bags and parcels a lot quicker. Laid out as it was, you could see 4 trains stop there for passenger exchange all at once; no mean feat for any station.

LXFlyer

The main causes of delay at Limerick Junction is the single track between Limerick Junction and Killonan with the passing loop at Dromkeen.

At present most trains between Limerick and Limerick Junction are scheduled to cross another train at Dromkeen - so if one of them is late there will be a knock on effect which means the mainline trains may have to wait.

The second and frankly unforgivable cause of delays to southbound trains was the removal of the set of points just east of the flat crossing that allowed Cork bound trains crossover onto the "up" line and access the platform. It was removed on cost grounds some years back.

As a result any Cork bound trains calling at Limerick Junction have to use the crossover further back (that is used to access the direct curve to Limerick) to access the up line. As a result of the Dublin bound train is delayed, the Cork bound train has to wait a good five minutes until after the Dublin bound service leaves the Junction and clears that crossover before it can proceed.

One of the dafter decisions that was made in recent times - from an operational perspective mind numbingly stupid.

However I have heard noises that a second platform may be on the horizon again which would be welcome news.

Shamrock776

The points removal isn't really a problem, if the shuttle ran to schedule it would not be a problem. All it would take is for IE to add 2-3 minutes padding and once works in Limerick are complete it would not be a problem.

LXFlyer

Shamrock776 wrote: »

The points removal isn't really a problem, if the shuttle ran to schedule it would not be a problem. All it would take is for IE to add 2-3 minutes padding and once works in Limerick are complete it would not be a problem.

Clearly the points removal is not a problem if everything is on time.

That's not the point. The crossover was important in the context of trains running late and the impact they have.

The removal of the points means that if the up service is late the impact on the down service is much greater than it ought to be as you have to double the time taken from the signal it waits at to get to the platform.

Adding padding isn't the solution either.

It also impacts on how late the Limerick Junction-Limerick train will be which in turn could have an impact on the next train from Limerick as it could be late at Dromkeen.

It was a short sighted move that reduced operational flexibility.

Jamie2k9

much greater

That's a little dramatic, no?

If anything the speed out of Limerick J (for Limerick) should be addressed slightly and some TLC to Limeerick line could deliver a constant speed as currently it's poor.

Operationally it would be better if Dublin services arrived a LJ first followed by Cork but then you would need to get every second service to use plt 5a in Cork and depart at xx.40 but something tells me that won't happen even with upgrades to the station. Could easily spend 5+ waiting outside the tunnel on many services.

The average of 15 minutes between services is quiet well scheduled but addressing the Limerick branch is key to solving most of the problem and while a second platform would be welcome it would be just covering over the real issues.

All you have to do is look at Tralee shuttle, IE leave 10-15 minute gap between services arriving/departing Mallow (not waiting for inbound Cork) and it works rather well but a little to much IMO.

pat ticket

Good news - no delays waiting on the Limerick shuttle at LJ on the 18.00 out of Heuston

Bad news - train already 20 minutes late arriving into LJ

Unsurprising news - seat reservations yet again not working (no paper reservation slips this time)

Here's hoping some time is made up between here and Kent.

Cookie_Monster

man98 wrote: »

Actually I believe the point (in general) where any mode of transport is classed as delayed/ late is when it's running 15 minutes or more behind schedule. Five minutes can be an inconvenience, yes, I've missed tight connections over something as simple as that, but for most people it makes little or no difference.

In Ireland maybe, Japan for example doesn't seem to think 5 minutes is acceptable...

And on the Cork line it 5 minutes on an already padded out and slow timetable, simply not good enough IMO.

thomond2006

A bit off-topic but what are the potential journey times from Cork to Heuston after the current improvement works are completed?

Jamie2k9

thomond2006 wrote: »

A bit off-topic but what are the potential journey times from Cork to Heuston after the current improvement works are completed?

Likely around 2h25m mark with some 2h20 and some longer.

LXFlyer

thomond2006 wrote: »

A bit off-topic but what are the potential journey times from Cork to Heuston after the current improvement works are completed?

Fastest train - 2 hours (non-stop headline business express)

Others probably 2:15-2:20 depending upon stops.

savagethegoat

not fast enough, I can do it quicker in the car without breaking the limit

Del.Monte

savagethegoat wrote: »

not fast enough, I can do it quicker in the car without breaking the limit

In 1999 Dublin/Cork could be done in 2 hours 17minutes - that's progress CIE style. For as long as I've been interested in railways (c.1978) CIE have been 'upgrading' the Dublin/Cork line and what's to show for it.

dowlingm

Perception of how late is acceptable does vary.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_certificate

in Ireland, well...

tabbey

Del.Monte wrote: »

In 1999 Dublin/Cork could be done in 2 hours 17minutes - that's progress CIE style. For as long as I've been interested in railways (c.1978) CIE have been 'upgrading' the Dublin/Cork line and what's to show for it.

In 1968, I read in a newspaper how Continously Welded Rail then being introduced would lead to a Dublin - Cork journey time of 1 hour, 50 minutes. This was based on an average speed of 90 mph. (110 minutes / 165 miles)
The journalist had clearly assumed maximum speed to be synonymous with average speed. Nevertheless, some degree of CIE propaganda was probably a factor in this article.

trellheim

not fast enough, I can do it quicker in the car without breaking the limit

You can not do Kent-Heuston in sub 2 hours in a car legally.

It is 257 km according to Google via M7, M8 . At 120kph the whole way you will still arrive 17 km short after 2 hours. ( No allowance made for traffic , tolls, non 120kph zones etc etc etc ).

savagethegoat

trellheim wrote: »

You can not do Kent-Heuston in sub 2 hours in a car legally.

It is 257 km according to Google via M7, M8 . At 120kph the whole way you will still arrive 17 km short after 2 hours. ( No allowance made for traffic , tolls, non 120kph zones etc etc etc ).

no one does that journey....

my own particular journey would be Mallow to Heuston which means 20 mins drive to station 20 mins to park and buy ticket, wait for train, almost 2 hours on train,10 minutes walk to LUAS /taxi rank/ bus stop (x) amount of time to destination. Result: car all the way would be quicker, not to mention cheaper.

trellheim

Cork to Heuston is assumed to be Kent-Heuston. If you had meant Mallow you should have said so.

Taxi from centre of Mallow to Station : 5/6 minutes , collect online ticket 5 mins wait for train 5 mins , 1:45 on train, approx 2 hours . As someone who regularly drops and picks up people from Mallow Stn I know this is all you need to do.

It is exactly 240km from Mallow centre to Heuston Station and don't tell me you can do Mallow-Heuston in less than the 2'32'' that Google suggests without breaking the limit, the N73 between Kildorrery and Mallow is crapola, I must drive from near Heuston to near Mallow about 10 times a year and 2'45' to 3 is about right going M7 and M8, M7/M20 is slower.

Lets get some reality into the discussion.

Also I know several people who drive from Cork City to Dub centre cos they can't be arsed to prise themselves out of the motors.

Train is a bit - but not a lot - more expensive, if you don't book in advance.

IE 222

Can a new station be built at L JCT between the direct curve and waterford line and a second platform on the down cork line. A turn back could be put in the middle of the direct curve and waterford platform and im sure some points could be saved and put a direct connection onto waterford line from main cork. Make a much simpler operation as well.

Jamie2k9

IE 222 wrote: »

Can a new station be built at L JCT between the direct curve and waterford line and a second platform on the down cork line. A turn back could be put in the middle of the direct curve and waterford platform and im sure some points could be saved and put a direct connection onto waterford line from main cork. Make a much simpler operation as well.

Limerick J has lots of room but such investment wouldn't be warranted. If IE want to build platforms to cut journey times I have a list of where they can start.

man98

IE 222 wrote: »

Can a new station be built at L JCT between the direct curve and waterford line and a second platform on the down cork line. A turn back could be put in the middle of the direct curve and waterford platform and im sure some points could be saved and put a direct connection onto waterford line from main cork. Make a much simpler operation as well.

To be honest, there's land there to build a down platform for Cork as well as building a curve from the Waterford line so the train from Waterford need not waste time with the driver having to move cabs, it's disgraceful it hasn't been done already and it's reflective of IÉ's lack of concern about that line.

IE 222

Wouldn't be just cutting times it offers more free movements, better services and more safety overall. Current set up strangles connections. Would there be much demand for a clonmel - Dublin service even one that splits from a direct limerick or cork. Waterford services could run limerick shuttle as well with new layout.

On a separate note I think L JCT could offer a brilliant freight hub as well and transfer freight department from limerick to the JCT.

Del.Monte

IE 222 wrote: »

Wouldn't be just cutting times it offers more free movements, better services and more safety overall. Current set up strangles connections. Would there be much demand for a clonmel - Dublin service even one that splits from a direct limerick or cork. Waterford services could run limerick shuttle as well with new layout.

On a separate note I think L JCT could offer a brilliant freight hub as well and transfer freight department from limerick to the JCT.

CIE has zero interest in doing anything that would improve services to or from Clonmel having actively tried to close the Limerick Jn./Rosslare route for the last 40 years. I used to travel regularly between Heuston and Cahir in the late 1980s and I can remember being told by staff there (Heuston) that wasn't even a service between the two; and I would have to travel via Waterford. Even on train announcements would only mention change at Limerick Jn. for Limerick. That the staff/unions colluded in this speaks volumes about the giant social employment scheme that CIE has become. The management and workers in CIE don't give a damn what's closed as long as they get the right golden handshake/redundancy etc.

Also, what is this freight that you speak of that would use a hub at Limerick Junction?

savagethegoat

trellheim wrote: »

Cork to Heuston is assumed to be Kent-Heuston. If you had meant Mallow you should have said so.

Taxi from centre of Mallow to Station : 5/6 minutes , collect online ticket 5 mins wait for train 5 mins , 1:45 on train, approx 2 hours . As someone who regularly drops and picks up people from Mallow Stn I know this is all you need to do.

It is exactly 240km from Mallow centre to Heuston Station and don't tell me you can do Mallow-Heuston in less than the 2'32'' that Google suggests without breaking the limit, the N73 between Kildorrery and Mallow is crapola, I must drive from near Heuston to near Mallow about 10 times a year and 2'45' to 3 is about right going M7 and M8, M7/M20 is slower.

Lets get some reality into the discussion.

Also I know several people who drive from Cork City to Dub centre cos they can't be arsed to prise themselves out of the motors.

Train is a bit - but not a lot - more expensive, if you don't book in advance.

I don't live in Mallow.

What I said was, I can drive to my final destination in Dublin quicker than I can drive to Mallow, park, wait for train, travel by train, walk to LUAS/Bus/taxi, travel to final destination, The same would apply to travelling into Cork from a suburb. It's the time of the overall journey that is relevant.

The point is the train is still painfully slow and hasn't been accelerated since the 70s whereas many countries through the world have car-beating train times and in some cases have had them since the 70s.

Car is cheaper slightly for one person, bur unbeatable for two or more.

We're never going to get a decent rail service whilst people are willing to settle for what we have.

IE 222

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE has zero interest in doing anything that would improve services to or from Clonmel having actively tried to close the Limerick Jn./Rosslare route for the last 40 years. I used to travel regularly between Heuston and Cahir in the late 1980s and I can remember being told by staff there (Heuston) that wasn't even a service between the two; and I would have to travel via Waterford. Even on train announcements would only mention change at Limerick Jn. for Limerick. That the staff/unions colluded in this speaks volumes about the giant social employment scheme that CIE has become. The management and workers in CIE don't give a damn what's closed as long as they get the right golden handshake/redundancy etc.

Also, what is this freight that you speak of that would use a hub at Limerick Junction?

I think there is a connection now but that's only down to the hourly cork timetable.

I said it WOULD make for a great hub in the sense of running feeder freights from waterford to Limerick, Galway and a Cork / Tralee of Dublin trains rather than trying to fill full length point to point trains from Dublin.

man98

IE 222 wrote: »

Wouldn't be just cutting times it offers more free movements, better services and more safety overall. Current set up strangles connections. Would there be much demand for a clonmel - Dublin service even one that splits from a direct limerick or cork. Waterford services could run limerick shuttle as well with new layout.

On a separate note I think L JCT could offer a brilliant freight hub as well and transfer freight department from limerick to the JCT.

I have heard that a Clonmel - Dublin service was proposed by IÉ's management in Waterford and was given the two fingers by head office not too long ago.

savagethegoat

IE 222 wrote: »

I think there is a connection now but that's only down to the hourly cork timetable.

I said it WOULD make for a great hub in the sense of running feeder freights from waterford to Limerick, Galway and a Cork / Tralee of Dublin trains rather than trying to fill full length point to point trains from Dublin.

I think he meant where are you going to find this freight from

trellheim

I don't live in Mallow.

What I said was, I can drive to my final destination in Dublin quicker than I can drive to Mallow, park, wait for train, travel by train, walk to LUAS/Bus/taxi, travel to final destination, The same would apply to travelling into Cork from a suburb. It's the time of the overall journey that is relevant.

The point is the train is still painfully slow and hasn't been accelerated since the 70s whereas many countries through the world have car-beating train times and in some cases have had them since the 70s.

Car is cheaper slightly for one person, bur unbeatable for two or more.

We're never going to get a decent rail service whilst people are willing to settle for what we have.

I've now quoted two of your own examples and shown rail to be the faster option. With the current M50 congestion and Dunkettle interchange congestion car is absolutely mank in driving to Dublin or Cork why would you not !

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

I have heard that a Clonmel - Dublin service was proposed by IÉ's management in Waterford and was given the two fingers by head office not too long ago.

this doesn't surprise me in the least. CIE/IE management up in dublin have their pets and anything outside those can go to hell. always been the way, always will be the way.

savagethegoat

trellheim wrote: »

I've now quoted two of your own examples and shown rail to be the faster option. With the current M50 congestion and Dunkettle interchange congestion car is absolutely mank in driving to Dublin or Cork why would you not !

I don't use the M50 going to Dublin. Dunkettle is only congested in rush hour, it's no problem almost all of the day. (not that I go there either), Congestion at Dunkettle or on the M50 would also hit some people heading for the train of course.

Rail is a lot slower as I have explained twice. Journeys go from door to door , not Heuston to Kent.

IE 222

man98 wrote: »

I have heard that a Clonmel - Dublin service was proposed by IÉ's management in Waterford and was given the two fingers by head office not too long ago.

I can kind of agree with them to be honest with the current Limerick JCT layout it would be a headache running these.