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The decline continues

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭ IRE60


    jmcc wrote: »
    Yep but is it an even-driven boost (US elections) and will those subs renew?

    Regards...jmcc


    Yea, good point. C19 and Election would be a driver. I worked in a business heavily reliant on repeat business (renewals). The word 'churn' still leaves me with sleepless nights!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭ jmcc


    JTMan wrote: »
    No doubt that the elections (and Covid spare time) have played a part, but there has being a clear trend for the last few years towards paying for digital subs for quality publications, which will continue long after the elections and Covid. FT, Economist, NYT etc are all doing exceptionally well with digital sub numbers.
    Yep. They all have large and quite well defined markets. The NYTimes market is quite large and the others are specialised. The problem is where the market is small and the publication is generalised (Irish Times/Indo etc). Event-driven spikes are common but they are rarely sustained. Most of the Irish publications rarely provide a breakdown on the age or duration of the digital subscriptions and it makes their claimed subscription figures less reliable than others.

    Regards...jmcc


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭ jmcc


    IRE60 wrote: »
    Yea, good point. C19 and Election would be a driver. I worked in a business heavily reliant on repeat business (renewals). The word 'churn' still leaves me with sleepless nights!
    It is a terrifying metric. :) It should be possible to graph the effects of the Covid lockdowns on print circulations and digital subs if the newspapers published the numbers. Took a look at the Irish Times "technology" section recently and apart from the odd bit of local news and the usual Polly Filla/Phil Space articles, there seemed to be more wire service content. What will be interesting to see is whether RTE's new news website with a lot more wire service content will compete directly with the newspapers for the same digital audience. It might be a repeat of the Irish Times' failed first paywall when it surrendered the Irish news market to RTE and the Indo because they were not behind a paywall.

    Regards...jmcc


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭ dohboy


    Good piece in the FT about the decline of local papers in America, how they are being hoovered up by hedge funds, and the nascent fight back by staff (mainly searching for benign loados to buy them as opposed to asset strippers). https://www.ft.com/content/5c22075c-f1af-431d-bf39-becf9c54758b


  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭ DrSerious3


    How was the pandemic for print? Has it slowed the inevitable decline?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭ IRE60


    Not trying to be evasive or even apologetic for print – it’s a difficult one to answer with any certainty – for a variety of reasons.

    Firstly, all of the ‘indigenous*’ Irish media have abandoned the auditing process since 2018 and therefore there is no data available on their current numbers.

    Secondly, News UK used a rule in the ABC registration brought in last March which allowed them to still be audited but not have to publish those figures. They are still using that rule 14 months on.

    So, at a stroke, last March about 50% of the Sunday market in Ireland (of those that reported at that point) stopped reporting numbers and about 35% of the daily market stopped as well.

    However, of the 12 papers selling in the Irish Market (RoI) and who are still part of the ABC audit process - they are back about 9% - which is in line, more or less, with their trajectory pre-covid.

    I hear that weekday sales have taken a bit of a beating, but weekend sales are very strong in certain brands. The whole ‘going to work’ cycle has shifted the dynamic in retail from town to local and indeed buying a paper in the morning to, perhaps, not buying one!

    *hateful expression - but seemingly widely understood and beats (marginally) the opposite group the "foreign media"


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/hugh-linehan-reports-of-the-death-of-the-newspaper-have-been-exaggerated-1.4570569
    Hugh Linehan ruminates on the future of printed newspapers, points out that they have outlasted many of the prophecies (and indeed prophets) of doom

    Most interesting bit is this quote from Peter Vandermeersch of Mediahuis Ireland on their strategy for the coming years: “we think, sooner or later, maybe five, maybe seven, maybe 12 years, we go to a system here in Ireland where we have very big and important Saturday and Sunday papers in print, combined with digital during the week. That’s basically the whole strategy of the company, to prepare for that future.”


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gloomtastic!


    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/hugh-linehan-reports-of-the-death-of-the-newspaper-have-been-exaggerated-1.4570569
    Hugh Linehan ruminates on the future of printed newspapers, points out that they have outlasted many of the prophecies (and indeed prophets) of doom

    Most interesting bit is this quote from Peter Vandermeersch of Mediahuis Ireland on their strategy for the coming years: “we think, sooner or later, maybe five, maybe seven, maybe 12 years, we go to a system here in Ireland where we have very big and important Saturday and Sunday papers in print, combined with digital during the week. That’s basically the whole strategy of the company, to prepare for that future.”

    Or maybe two Peter. It’s what I do now. :)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Most content now are just recycyled press releases, it is very poor. I read a story on a radio website re a crime and it was just a copy of the garda press release.


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭ dohboy


    Maybe don't get your news from a radio station's website then? Or at least have zero expectations if you do.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭ yosser hughes


    dohboy wrote: »
    Maybe don't get your news from a radio station's website then? Or at least have zero expectations if you do.

    So set your sights low and you won't be disappointed. Is that it?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    dohboy wrote: »
    Maybe don't get your news from a radio station's website then? Or at least have zero expectations if you do.
    I never said i got my news from a radio station website. Most local papers are the same, very little news, a lots of political press releases from TD's. "X TD welcomes Y development" . And press releases sent in by organisations . They don't even bother to call the organisation and interview him/her about his press release.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have seen another lately. Copy and paste a press release and put their byline on it. And yet another that has a one line sentence introducing a press release and then the press release in quotes

    X TD said he welcomes funding for Y project "full press release" and say it is by one of their writers. Pathetic



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭ Topgear on Dave


    I think this might fit in here. The newspaper printing plant in Kells is to close.

    "The plant produces editions in Ireland for the Sunday Times and Irish Sun, which are owned by News UK & Ireland. It also prints editions for other newspaper publishers, including the Irish Daily Mail and the Financial Times"




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gloomtastic!


    Interesting development over at Business Post where they've just bought Red C, the pollsters.

    Someone there seems to be able to look way over the trees. Fair dues to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I see the Indo have this clip on their website, yet its 6 years old. Way to go. Do they employ someone to trawl the internet for stories or clips?

    https://www.independent.ie/videos/why-do-you-have-euro-in-ireland-american-presenter-shocked-when-learning-ireland-doesnt-use-english-pounds-40906556.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 drserious4


    Journalism ain't what it used to be. The number of typos alone (in books as well as newspapers) is really shocking but probably a reflection of the reduction in staffing levels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Interesting article throwing light on the issue discussed upthread of whether it is worthwhile for British newspapers without Irish editions to distribute in the Irish market



    The i is cutting its price to €1 in a bid to attract 'price sensitive' customers. Commentator points out that the Daily Mail can justify circulating the title in Ireland by piggybacking on its existing distribution network...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Big to-do at Times/Sunday Times Ireland

    Almost a dozen journalists, including some of its best-known writers, are set to depart the Sunday Times Ireland and Times Ireland amid a cost-slashing restructuring of the news publisher’s operations described as “brutal” by staff.

    Wonder will it still be worth the €3-whatever a go when all that is done & dusted...



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,336 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21




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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 drserious4




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Had missed that they already announced this

    So presumably their trumpeted 'digital strategy' is now in tatters and their entire 'strategy' for the Irish market involves charging a big wodge for the (presumably now skimpier) Sunday edition...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭ jmcc


    Makes sense. Digital subs for a daily version would be hard to sell and retain agains the IT and the Indo. They are Irish focused and this is their primary market. The weekend digital version might be easier to market but the weekend print edition may continue to be the main seller for a while yet.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    I'm not sure. If you're someone who wants a big wodge of content for 'leisure reading' of a weekend, are you likely to prefer that in print or digital form? Plus if you're otherwise occupied on a particular Sunday you can skip that print version.

    I wonder is this mass exodus of staff going to kick in straight away. If so we're going to be getting a pretty shoddy product in return for our 4 quid for the next while until they recruit replacements and get their act back together.


    The source added that “people are confused as to how they’re going to put out a paper”, given the scale of the redundancies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭ jmcc


    A print edition is easier to share among multiple readers who may not want to use a tablet or laptop to read it. Losing the editors is not a good thing. Columnists are not a major loss by comparison.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,962 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Little sign of the upheaval at ST in today's edition: usual amount of Irish content, departing Stephen O'Brien and Denis Walsh all over it. Looks like they might be able to manage the 'transition'...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,008 ✭✭✭ dulpit


    I think i saw its the last edition for at least David Walsh, so should become apparent in the next week or two...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,737 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,779 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    I'm sure I saw a stat some years ago that every single printing op in the country - Smurfit/Newscorp (gone), INM (now gone with that closure and closing/selling Citywest etc before it), Crosbie/SBP Webprint and the Irish Times - could have printed every single daily paper on one of their plants. There was that much excess capacity; and that was with much higher circulations.

    We're now down to two of those - and far less papers being printed. There are also still regional printing ops outside of those big two.

    Who did Newscorp move to for their print requirements here; and who does the Reach titles (and the Guardian/Observer who use Reach in the UK)?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 eguiney


    News Corp moved to the ex-INM City West site - except for The Times which was already in Portadown

    The Guardian/Observer are at the Irish Times

    The Mirror left the Celtic Media plant in Navan a few years ago and moved to the Irish Times. The Navan plant is now also closing.

    The Express and the Star are currently in Newry

    Post edited by eguiney on


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