Are You Sick of Being Told How to Think?

ClovenHoof

Mainly by people who have only one ability in this life, and that is to do as they are told in accordance with the prevailing social and cultural model of the age?

I was thinking about all these civil servants such as you get moderating this site who seem to think they are the default version of what a properly functioning Irish person in 2016 should be. Hence, why any deviation in thinking (even honest examination) of social/cultural dynamics/tropes which would fly in the face of government social engineering is considered an aberration to be chastised at the very least, or destroyed if necessary.

This quote and article really brought this home to me:

He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences.


https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.kpmhxme60

Why should we allow the 'has a good pension' drones and bots who are only good for passing exams and doing as they are told, set the agenda for Irish society, when all history has shown that it is the mavericks and creative types who actually improve and enrich the trajectory of the human story?

Are the Politically Correct types of today, any more enlightened or legitimate in terms of upholding the present values of this society, compared to the previous catholic holy rollers who sung Ave Maria when the condom trains arrived at Connolly Station from Belfast?

From where I am stranding they are just the same types, with a different working model to enforce is all.

The_Valeyard

Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.

oppenheimer1

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Mainly by people who have only one ability in this life, and that is to do as they are told in accordance with the prevailing social and cultural model of the age?

I was thinking about all these civil servants such as you get moderating this site who seem to think they are the default version of what a properly functioning Irish person in 2016 should be. Hence, why any divination in thinking and diversion (even honest examination) of social/cultural dynamics/tropes which would fly in the face of government social engineering is considered an aberration to be chastised at the very least, or destroyed if necessary.

This quote and article really brought this home to me:



Why should we allow the 'has a good pension' drones and bots who are only good for passing exams and doing as they are told, set the agenda for Irish society, when all history has shown that it is the mavericks and creative types who actually improve and enrich the trajectory of the human story?

Are the Politically Correct types of today, any more enlightened or legitimate in terms of upholding the present values of this society, compared to the previous catholic holy rollers who sung Ave Maria when the condom trains arrived at Connolly Station from Belfast?

From where I am stranding they are just the same types, with a different working model to enforce is all.

Is the question, "should the people who are responsible and educated lead society?"

If that's what you're asking, then yes, of course they should.

Also, how can drones and bots following the crowd set the agenda?

arayess

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Is the question, "should the people who are responsible and educated lead society?"

If that's what you're asking, then yes, of course they should.

Also, how can drones and bots following the crowd set the agenda?

do you really believe that ****e?
How determines who are "responsible and educated"?

The simpsons clearly demonstrated was a clusterfcuk the council of the learned were when they ran Springfield

ezra_pound

People in this country have had enough of experts.

oppenheimer1

arayess wrote: »

do you really believe that ****e?
How determines who are "responsible and educated"?

The simpsons clearly demonstrated was a clusterfcuk the council of the learned were when they ran Springfield

Oh we're arguing on the basis of what happened in the Simpsons? Interesting :rolleyes:

Stheno

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

oppenheimer1

ezra_pound wrote: »

People in this country have had enough of experts.

What do they know anyway

Ted111

I was think of start paying in to a pension scheme

Boom_Bap

Stheno wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

I serve no one neither civilly or in an uncivil manner.

Badly Drunk Boy

Ted111 wrote: »

I was think of start paying in to a pension scheme

(I think it isn't quite as bad if it's not a government pension. Go for it, but just don't start waving it in front of ClovenHoof.)

alchemist33

I tried to read the linked article but it was just so full of jargon it was unintelligible to anyone but the writers best friends and internet buddies

ToddyDoody

I think therefore I spam.

the evasion_kid

I only come onto boards so people can give me their version of what I think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiUB05b2Y1s

Means Of Escape

Silence ,Number Six

SEPT 23 1989

I fully agree with your tirade

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

You're a civil servant, Stheno. I know this is probably news to you.

Sorry 'bout that.

arayess

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Oh we're arguing on the basis of what happened in the Simpsons? Interesting :rolleyes:

rolleyes all you want....if it makes you feel better.

the simpsons gave a fairly accurate commentary on american life which isn't too far removed from our life

I for one believe being rules by intellectuals would be a disaster.

Pherekydes

Stheno wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

You can't be sacked!

Stheno

Pherekydes wrote: »

You can't be sacked!

Hmm I never thought of that :pac:

Amanda.ie

Stheno wrote: »

Hmm I never thought of that :pac:

And you have flexi hours, term time, gold plated pension and not forgetting the fact you don't need work at all. :p

Stheno

Amanda.ie wrote: »

And you have flexi hours, term time, gold plated pension and not forgetting the fact you don't need work at all. :p

Have you seen the list of forums I mod??????:

Amanda.ie

Stheno wrote: »

Have you seen the list of forums I mod??????:

Ya sure only a civil servant would have the time

I was been sarcastic btw:p Im sure your not a civil servant.

Stheno

Amanda.ie wrote: »

Ya sure only a civil servant would have the time

I was been sarcastic btw:p Im sure your not a civil servant.

You're fine

Atoms for Peace

That article is nothing but strung together buzzwords.

ezra_pound

ezra_pound wrote: »

People in this country have had enough of experts.

Correction, we have had enough of 'experts'.

People like the credit ratings agencies who were paid vast sums of money to tell us our economy was in great health.

These ratings agencies somehow retain their reputation and are still cited nowadays as the ultimate arbiters of a country's debt sustainability.

Jesus.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I was thinking about all these civil servants such as you get moderating this site who seem to think they are the default version of what a properly functioning Irish person in 2016 should be.

Very much so (no offence to the Mods). This modern pansy ass sh1t of everyone saying they're "offended" by everything is vomit inducing. I've never been "offended" in my entire life yet some people are offended multiple times per day!

Its a snaky way of stopping critical thinking and its actually working.

Outlaw Pete

Yes I do and I'm sick of it!! Lets start a revolution!!!


Tomorrow, I wanna watch TV and get a take away tonight.

Samaris

Stheno wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

I missed that memo too. At least everyone else only gets told what to think, the bolded script means we get told what we are too! :pac:

osarusan

That article reads like something you'd submit to a journal to test whether it's actually legitimate and peer-reviewed or whether they are just predatory publishers of everything they get.

GLaDOS

You're right OP, I am!

Thanks for telling me.

ligerdub

Interesting thread, well said OP.

Sticking to the original point presented in the thread, I think you're absolutely right, people are a lot more dogmatic these days, particularly with signalling on social media and the spread of viral videos of people involved in more political scenarios. If you're not on the "right/correct" side then you're going to feel the wrath! Of course both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of this, but there is an increasingly vitriolic, aggressive tone to more liberal commentators these days.

Take a few issues as an example:

1. Brexit (Leave voters)
2. Immigration (those preferring tighter controls)
3. Global politics, particularly Islam connected terror attacks.
4. US Presidential election (Trump preference rather than Hillary)
5. Abortion debate (Pro-Life)
6. Feminism (where do I start? Let's stick to salary levels, you question the merits of the "gender pay gap")

If you hold any of the views in the brackets then prepare to reap the whirlwind from those who disagree with you. You'll be bombarded with messages from "tolerant" types who plaster their social media bio's with love hearts and political slogans while you'll be tarred as a racist, sexist, bigot etc. You might only be asking the questions to see if the consensus view holds water, but that doesn't matter to the attackers. Where is the tolerance there? Why has the concept of a debate died?

I realise that the OP is probably looking at different issues, more Irish centric stuff, but the thought police are the enemy in general IMO.

mzungu

ligerdub wrote: »

Take a few issues as an example:

1. Brexit (Leave voters)
2. Immigration (those preferring tighter controls)
3. Global politics, particularly Islam connected terror attacks.
4. US Presidential election (Trump preference rather than Hillary)
5. Abortion debate (Pro-Life)
6. Feminism (where do I start? Let's stick to salary levels, you question the merits of the "gender pay gap")

If you hold any of the views in the brackets then prepare to reap the whirlwind from those who disagree with you. You'll be bombarded with messages from "tolerant" types who plaster their social media bio's with love hearts and political slogans while you'll be tarred as a racist, sexist, bigot etc. You might only be asking the questions to see if the consensus view holds water, but that doesn't matter to the attackers. Where is the tolerance there? Why has the concept of a debate died?

I realise that the OP is probably looking at different issues, more Irish centric stuff, but the thought police are the enemy in general IMO.

It's the way things are on the net, where fringe elements try to outdo one another in the outrage game.

Birneybau

I don't know, am I?

riffmongous

Birneybau wrote: »

I don't know, am I?

Yes, yes you are

Samaris

There's probably also an element of you notice it more from the side you're not on. For every "bigot" or "racist" accusation, I could probably raise you a "gen snowflake", "safe spacer" occasional accusations of supporting ISIS and the ever-lovely "libtard". Not to mention if one argues against something, one is accused of being offended as a cheap way to delegitimise someone's argument. Even look at this thread. The opening statement was hardly unbiased in itself (not that opinions need to be), along with a rather random rounding in of the mods as if we're some powerful state entity rather than a bunch of posters on boards!

Horses for courses, both sides appear to feel attacked. But most of the threads I see about it lately, seem in all honesty (see first sentence, mind you) to be attacking those on the liberal side of the political spectrum.

Maximus Alexander

arayess wrote: »

The simpsons clearly demonstrated was a clusterfcuk the council of the learned were when they ran Springfield

That was my favourite documentary.

chrissb8

I think this extends out to the broader public as well. The stifling of creativity and being different can be acutely felt among those in "proper jobs" e.g. working in an office with great job security etc etc. I'm not panning those who do work there as I hope to get a job like that.

All I ever hear though when I bring up someone who's trying to make it as an musician or live of being an artist is "can't live like that forever!". Why not. It befuddles me as well as without these kind of people there would be no trends, music, culture, art etc. the things that create business and create new ideas.

It's highly aggravating. Where does someone get off telling someone this is how life should be or this is what you should be doing. F*** you ya sod you wish you had the talent to do what they're doing or the balls while you sit there moaning about your dreary office job. Yet still lord over others because of the perceived wrong lifestyle.

Just don't listen to anyone if they're telling you no. Life is too short for such bull.

Stigura

^^^^^ Travellers Bible?

Esel

Sick and tired, I am. I think.

Esel

Sick and tired, I am. I think.

Cabaal

Stheno wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the mods they are civil servants :eek:

Woohoo, I never knew I got paid sick days and a nice pension. Happy days!

Grayson

alchemist33 wrote: »

I tried to read the linked article but it was just so full of jargon it was unintelligible to anyone but the writers best friends and internet buddies

The IYI has been wrong, historically, on Stalinism, Maoism, GMOs, Iraq, Libya, Syria, lobotomies, urban planning, low carbohydrate diets, gym machines, behaviorism, transfats, freudianism, portfolio theory, linear regression, Gaussianism, Salafism, dynamic stochastic equilibrium modeling, housing projects, selfish gene, Bernie Madoff (pre-blowup) and p-values. But he is convinced that his current position is right.

The guy who wrote that has serious mental issues.

worded

Deleted User wrote: »

Correction, we have had enough of 'experts'.

People like the credit ratings agencies who were paid vast sums of money to tell us our economy was in great health.

These ratings agencies somehow retain their reputation and are still cited nowadays as the ultimate arbiters of a country's debt sustainability.

They gave AAA ratings to dodgey mortgage bundles of 20s s
To tempt pension funds to invest in them. When asked why they gave these ratings, they said it was their opinion ....
Experts opinions ....
Meanwhile pension funds lost their ass
Workers who paid in for years have pension funds in negative

Grayson

Holy fcuk. I read the guys books. He's a former trader and mathematician who wrote about randomness and probability. His books are good but that rant was weird. He's not railing against "Experts" just "experts" who don't understand maths. However he's making the mistake of assuming that they don't know maths. I'm sure many do.

Your Face

I take your point OP, however badly communicated.
Did you ever read Plato's Republic by any chance?

pumpkin4life

He's right.

The biggest idiots I've ever been around have been people who are quite intelligent (say +1STDV above the norm in IQ), but because they're often surrounded by people who are average to below average intelligence, they believe they're far more intelligent than they actually are. See the Dunning Kruger effect as an example. This is dodge as fùck because:

Dumb people are presented with a bullshìt theory, can't understand it and go with their gut feeling.

Very smart people are presented with a bullshìt theory and can outhink it/can get cognitive dissonance etc so they don't accept it.

Smart people are presented with a bullshìt theory, can understand it and accept it but can't think around it.

This is why most feminists/liberals/pro immigrationists/marxists/any bullshìt left or right wing theories etc are IYIs as Nassim Taleb calls them, because they're not intelligent enough to think outside said theories.

I posted this in another thread, but government department public sector workers, are typically a good example of IYIs.

Joshua J

Humans, as a group, are easy to control. Give them what you want their societal norms to be and they're self-policing.

MonkeyTennis

I'm an individual

You are all sheeple

EVERYBODY knows that.

diomed

The opening post ... more chips than a chip shop.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.