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Sinn Fein leadership

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  • 16-09-2016 1:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    With Gerry Adams making his intentions known and with mcGuinness being asked if he will go at the same time.
    Can SF survive losing its two main leaders? Who do you see as worthy replacements?


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Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Joe Delightful Formula


    With Gerry Adams making his intentions known and with mcGuinness being asked if he will go at the same time.
    Can SF survive losing its two main leaders? Who do you see as worthy replacements?

    Mary Lou McDonald or Pearse Doherty must be next in line for the title.

    Mary Lou might be a good shout if SF try to distance themselves from some of their more sharp history, and also if they do make a slight swing in-field and start to try to create some feasible policies. I could see her being a good leader, albeit very much more comfortable on the opposition side than really taking the bull by the horns in Government.

    Pearse is an interesting fella. Seems to work the media well, only a few embarrassing slip-ups to hurt him.

    Can't really see beyond either of those at the minute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mary Lou McDonald or Pearse Doherty must be next in line for the title.

    Mary Lou might be a good shout if SF try to distance themselves from some of their more sharp history, and also if they do make a slight swing in-field and start to try to create some feasible policies. I could see her being a good leader, albeit very much more comfortable on the opposition side than really taking the bull by the horns in Government.

    Pearse is an interesting fella. Seems to work the media well, only a few embarrassing slip-ups to hurt him.

    Can't really see beyond either of those at the minute.

    I'd be thinking they won't go for two southern reps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,195 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    With Gerry Adams making his intentions known and with mcGuinness being asked if he will go at the same time.

    what has Adams said on the topic ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    It's not so much the 'who' of the situation that will make for interesting watching as the transition itself.

    It's a political party that has been monolithic in its presentation of policy, dogmatic on most matters and unswerving in its dealings with members accused of 'uncomradely behaviour.'

    Will the northern based membership accept the continuation of such restrictions from a Dublin-based leadership? I think not, but who knows.

    If anything my money would be on the party almost consuming itself - bit like UK Labour are doing at the moment - before a new leader emerges who will, regardless of who they are, not have the same grip on the party Adams has.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I wouldn't be so sure of Pearse's readiness or acceptability for a leadership role. And I think they will make an effort to have representation from both north and south.
    I think you could see Mary Lou and Michelle Gildernew or Conor Murphy rise to the top.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I wonder will the new leader be ex-IRA, not ex-IRA (but someone that everyone knows is IRA), actually not ex-IRA, or a blow-in from another republican party?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I would imagine most people in SF would know somebody who is ex-IRA. Certainly those who would be candidates for the leadership.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Seems Gerry is not going to be allowed to slip quietly into the night.
    Another classic in the dark arts of defamation from the BBC's Spotlight last night followed by a bit of tenuous extrapolation by Tommy Gorman on RTE this morning.
    'Somebody who was told by somebody else that the IRA were responsible for Denis Donaldson's death claims that Gerry Adams sanctioned it'?

    Tommy claims the 'British had the upper hand in the intelligence war' yet neither the Irish or British or indeed American intelligence services have never been able to find any useful proof against this man.

    What are they going to do when the leadership has no connections to the conflict?

    'Mary Lou knew Gerry was in the IRA' exposés?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that Adams is connected to the conflict. In which case, why is it defamatory to say he ordered someone's murder?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that Adams is connected to the conflict. In which case, why is it defamatory to say he ordered someone's murder?

    I'm 'connected' to the conflict, in that I lived through it. Politicians, activists, and the those who lived through it are 'connected' to the conflict.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    There's a new thread on the Spotlight programme, best keeping the same discussion to one thread.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭brickmauser


    SF is a British intelligence/CIA controlled front. Whoever replaces Adams will be controlled 100% by Langley and Whitehall.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Thomas__


    I just came across this article in which a 23 year old SF councillor has resigned from SF but decided to stay on as an independent councillor. The reason for why I have started this thread is nothing to do with the usual "SF-bashing" that is rather a common place on Irish Forums. The reason for is to find out whether this story has real substance (which I don´t doubt at all that it has) and as the article tells, such practice is described as Happening rather often to those SF councillors who refuse to yield to bullying practice for supposedly various reasons of which political direction and practices might be just one of the many.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/youngest-female-sinn-fin-councillor-resigns-citing-bullyboy-politics-36101592.html

    Others may make their own mind out of it but I rather tend to believe this 23 year old woman which seems to be more committed to her role as a councillor and thus for the community she works for as such and has the guts to tell the older fellow SF members when she thinks that things are going wrong. For such a stance, I pay her my respect because it certainly takes something to talk back to older and presumably more experienced fellow SF members. The story sheds a light on the internal practices of SF in dealing with her own representatives and those who fulfill official posts.  

    Below the linked article (on the front page of the Irish Independent to be precise) is another article about SF President Gerry Adams and his plan to stand for re-election as SF President and after being elected, prepare his schedule for stepping down from that office. Apart from the article that brought me to start this thread, I do think that Mr Adams has held this office for (maybe too) long enough and should retire from it in order to make way for younger generations than himself to take over leadership and thus bringing about a change within SF.

    When one considers that the above story has substance and that SF members in higher positions within the party dealt with the complaints from the young councillor in a way as if this was all nothing she complained about, one might rather assume that there is some "old circle" who has no interest in changing anything but might have an interest in shutting down those who dare to either complain or point out where things go wrong.

    To conclude this OP I just like to remind readers that, whether they like the Shinners or not, in general terms speaking it is the younger generation that one day will carry on with politics and whatever the problem is they come up with, bullying and intimidation is no way to encourage younger people to engage themselves with party politics and wake their enthusiasm for political work. It´s more likely to put them off and I question the way SF treats her elected councillor like in this case is really of following democratic values.
    Everyone who has made his own experiences with work and membership in any political party of democratic stance will know that this has its up and downs and sometimes even irritations, but I am of the stance that bullying and intimidation should have no place in it.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,494 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod note:

    Merging threads


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    It's Ok. GA said there was no bullying and her accusations were unfair to the membership.

    In other news..he's putting his name forward for the leadership of the party and its up to the members to decide if they want him to remain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Thomas__ wrote: »
    I just came across this article in which a 23 year old SF councillor has resigned from SF but decided to stay on as an independent councillor. The reason for why I have started this thread is nothing to do with the usual "SF-bashing" that is rather a common place on Irish Forums. The reason for is to find out whether this story has real substance (which I don´t doubt at all that it has) and as the article tells, such practice is described as Happening rather often to those SF councillors who refuse to yield to bullying practice for supposedly various reasons of which political direction and practices might be just one of the many.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/youngest-female-sinn-fin-councillor-resigns-citing-bullyboy-politics-36101592.html

    Others may make their own mind out of it but I rather tend to believe this 23 year old woman which seems to be more committed to her role as a councillor and thus for the community she works for as such and has the guts to tell the older fellow SF members when she thinks that things are going wrong. For such a stance, I pay her my respect because it certainly takes something to talk back to older and presumably more experienced fellow SF members. The story sheds a light on the internal practices of SF in dealing with her own representatives and those who fulfill official posts.  

    Below the linked article (on the front page of the Irish Independent to be precise) is another article about SF President Gerry Adams and his plan to stand for re-election as SF President and after being elected, prepare his schedule for stepping down from that office. Apart from the article that brought me to start this thread, I do think that Mr Adams has held this office for (maybe too) long enough and should retire from it in order to make way for younger generations than himself to take over leadership and thus bringing about a change within SF.

    When one considers that the above story has substance and that SF members in higher positions within the party dealt with the complaints from the young councillor in a way as if this was all nothing she complained about, one might rather assume that there is some "old circle" who has no interest in changing anything but might have an interest in shutting down those who dare to either complain or point out where things go wrong.

    To conclude this OP I just like to remind readers that, whether they like the Shinners or not, in general terms speaking it is the younger generation that one day will carry on with politics and whatever the problem is they come up with, bullying and intimidation is no way to encourage younger people to engage themselves with party politics and wake their enthusiasm for political work. It´s more likely to put them off and I question the way SF treats her elected councillor like in this case is really of following democratic values.
    Everyone who has made his own experiences with work and membership in any political party of democratic stance will know that this has its up and downs and sometimes even irritations, but I am of the stance that bullying and intimidation should have no place in it.

    All I would say is that I would be wary of stories like this. Every party has issues like these which are not newsworthy in most cases and are generally power plays, personal disputes, sore losers etc. My locality is littered with disgruntled members of any party you care to mention.
    You must remember that in respect of one party there are the willing arms of certain elements of the media outstretched for stories like these.
    Apparently, when asked, this person did not present any evidence to the investigation.

    Not dismissing her but what are you to do when there isn't any evidence presented?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 Count Marcula


    I don't think anyone in the party has the guts to run against him. Anyway, why does it matter? A party leader that defends child abuse and rape should have resigned a long time ago. Gerry's survival depended on his relationship with Martin McGuinness. He was the true influence in the movement. Adams on the other hand was only a spokesman. Won't be long now until another scandal emerges and he'll be forced to resign.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't think anyone in the party has the guts to run against him. Anyway, why does it matter? A party leader that defends child abuse and rape should have resigned a long time ago. Gerry's survival depended on his relationship with Martin McGuinness. He was the true influence in the movement. Adams on the other hand was only a spokesman. Won't be long now until another scandal emerges and he'll be forced to resign.

    When did he defend child abuse and rape?
    You may be getting a bit carried away there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    When did he defend child abuse and rape?
    You may be getting a bit carried away there.

    It would be more correct to say he protected child abusers.

    He has also refused to deal openly and fully with allegations of child abuse by SF members. I understand that there are cases before the courts, obviously we will have to wait and see whether these can be reported on.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It would be more correct to say he protected child abusers.

    And muderers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It would be more correct to say he protected child abusers.

    He has also refused to deal openly and fully with allegations of child abuse by SF members. I understand that there are cases before the courts, obviously we will have to wait and see whether these can be reported on.

    Are you gonna back this up with anything of relevance or is it just your opinion?

    If he withheld information he should be charged and brought to justice. You apparently have that information, have you gone to the relevant authorities?

    With respect to the family case, he has dealt with that in a transparent way and admitted he did the wrong thing. His party accepted that and an overwhelming majority of those who identify as Irish in northern Ireland did too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Are you gonna back this up with anything of relevance or is it just your opinion?

    If he withheld information he should be charged and brought to justice. You apparently have that information, have you gone to the relevant authorities?

    With respect to the family case, he has dealt with that in a transparent way and admitted he did the wrong thing. His party accepted that and an overwhelming majority of those who identify as Irish in northern Ireland did too.

    As I said, there are cases before the courts, so I won't be commenting further on the details at this time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As I said, there are cases before the courts, so I won't be commenting further on the details at this time.

    You can comment on yet another claim that he was not open and transparent. Is Adams before a court for withholding information?

    That would be the only thing that would back up a spurious claim like that


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You can comment on yet another claim that he was not open and transparent. Is Adams before a court for withholding information?

    That would be the only thing that would back up a spurious claim like that

    How do you know that is not an issue before the courts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    How do you know that is not an issue before the courts?

    If Adams was withholding info about an abuse crime he would and should be before a court.
    Are you inferring this is the case or are you just making sinister accusations?

    You made the claim back it up please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If Adams was withholding info about an abuse crime he would and should be before a court.
    Are you inferring this is the case or are you just making sinister accusations?

    You made the claim back it up please?

    I am not going to comment on ongoing court cases no matter how much you ask me to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    If Adams was withholding info about an abuse crime he would and should be before a court.
    Are you inferring this is the case or are you just making sinister accusations?

    You made the claim back it up please?


    It's funny that you're focusing on the claim that GA withheld information but ignoring my claim that he protected murderers.

    Just shows the standard of his character.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It's very unfair of people to pick on Adams for protecting child rapists and murderers.
    Ok so he did protect them but all of those child rapists and murderers are good republicans so it's alright then!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    amcalester wrote: »
    It's funny that you're focusing on the claim that GA withheld information but ignoring my claim that he protected murderers.

    Just shows the standard of his character.

    There were a lot of people 'protected' on all sides during the war/conflict.

    Other than stating that rather obvious fact, you are correct, I will ignore that rabbithole. Plenty of threads where it has been discussed before.


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