Electric bike - see mode note post #298

Etc

When I bought my e-bike last year I bought an S-Pedelic, my experience has been I let roadies draft me along the coast and I get a thanks at the lights.

I'm no more a danger to society as a bloke in a suit on a Dublin bike or a student looking at their phones cycling through the city centre. Once I hit traffic in town I'm as vulnerable as everyone else, extra weight and momentum arguments that mean I'm a greater risk argued here are wrong. I can't cycle fast because I stop at lights and use cycle lanes.

I'm actually a safer cyclist because I have a bell, hydraulic brakes, permanent led front lights and brake lights.

What I like about e-bikes is they are expensive so people that buy them consider their purchases. They also consider the environment they use them in so aren't going to be a*rseholes.

People who buy kits that allow them to twist a throttle and ride aren't people using e-bikes and should be prosecuted.

Etc

Etc wrote: »

When I bought my e-bike last year I bought an S-Pedelic, my experience has been I let roadies draft me along the coast and I get a thanks at the lights.

I'm no more a danger to society as a bloke in a suit on a Dublin bike or a student looking at their phones cycling through the city centre. Once I hit traffic in town I'm as vulnerable as everyone else, extra weight and momentum arguments that mean I'm a greater risk argued here are wrong. I can't cycle fast because I stop at lights and use cycle lanes.

I'm actually a safer cyclist because I have a bell, hydraulic brakes, permanent led front lights and brake lights.

What I like about e-bikes is they are expensive so people that buy them consider their purchases. They also consider the environment they use them in so aren't going to be a*rseholes.

People who buy kits that allow them to twist a throttle and ride aren't people using e-bikes and should be prosecuted.

You should be prosecuted because you're using an S-pedelec illegally on cycle lanes.

Insured also I'm sure ?

Not so smug now eah ?

kennethsmyth

Deleted User wrote: »

You should be prosecuted because you're using an S-pedelec illegally on cycle lanes.

Insured also I'm sure ?

Not so smug now eah ?

Other than the not so smug now comment I have to agree with Mad_Lad, if you are an s-pedelec that can do 45kmh assist instead of 25kmh assist you essentially are treated as a motorised vehicle in ireland and need to be registered, insured etc. and cannot use cycle lanes. Hopefully you've just mistyped and you are a normal pedelec

rubadub

Lumen wrote: »

So I reckon 30kph and 600W would be reasonable limits.

I think if it was 20mph (32.2km/h) like in the US then a lot of people would be happy with that and not bother getting the bike chipped/modified. It is not particularly cheap to get it modified.

I doubt too many people would be dead set against a raising from 25 to 32. It is not that much, however to the person cycling it really is a significant difference. At the moment there is a cyle of getting to 26km, power cutting out, and then you have a hog to cycle until it drops below 25km again and you start the cycle again. Then they may go and get it chipped and be whizzing around the place -just because they can. While if assistance stopped at 32 they would know this and just tip along at just below that.

Same with cars, I think the speedlimits are reasonable here, if cars were computer controlled to only go the max limit in a certain area, and if a chip was available to delimit this I doubt many would bother.

Yes 32 Km/h would be a far more sensible cut off after all humans can pedal up to 32 Km/h and more.

It would be nice not to be fighting the cut off which is a pain in the ass because then you'll find yourself just sitting before the cut off to keep assistance travelling slower than you normally would once you're above the cut off though then it's fine but when you hover around there it is a right pain.

The U.S 32 Km/h or 20 Mph is sensible but the E.U likes to control our every move.

Joe1919

ted1 wrote: »

In simple terms, anything with a throttle is illegal.
...

Not that simple......

Some bikes /kits have a facility called 'walk assist' that allows assistance up to 6 km/hr and is controlled by a button or sometimes a throttle. The throttle version is actually very useful if you have to get up a very steep incline or stairs.

monument

Joe1919 wrote: »

Not that simple......

Some bikes /kits have a facility called 'walk assist' that allows assistance up to 6 km/hr and is controlled by a button or sometimes a throttle. The throttle version is actually very useful if you have to get up a very steep incline or stairs.

Does it require the rider to keep pushing?

Joe1919

monument wrote: »

Does it require the rider to keep pushing?

No. The rider walks and just balances and steers. As far as I know, there is a class of non mpv vehicles like electrical powered hand carts, dustcarts, forklifts, lawnmowers etc where the speed is restricted and the operator walks and is not carried by the vehicle, so the bike would be traditionally be exempt as classified mpv under this heading when used in this way.

beauf

Joe1919 wrote: »

Not that simple......

Some bikes /kits have a facility called 'walk assist' that allows assistance up to 6 km/hr and is controlled by a button or sometimes a throttle. The throttle version is actually very useful if you have to get up a very steep incline or stairs.

Unfortunately it is that simply or crude. There is no provision for such a system in the current registration.

Lol , I take it not many of you used walk assist ?

The Bosch motors have walk assist, it would be ridiculous to think it's illegal, you couldn't ride with it. LOL

homer911

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol , I take it not many of you used walk assist ?

The Bosch motors have walk assist, it would be ridiculous to think it's illegal, you couldn't ride with it. LOL

How do you turn this on?

beauf

Joe1919 wrote: »

No. The rider walks and just balances and steers. As far as I know, there is a class of non mpv vehicles like electrical powered hand carts, dustcarts, forklifts, lawnmowers etc where the speed is restricted and the operator walks and is not carried by the vehicle, so the bike would be traditionally be exempt as classified mpv under this heading when used in this way.

Unfortunately the legislation doesn't exclude bikes in same way. If you can find where it does, great. But I don't think you'll find it.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/bosch-walk-assist-in-2017-models-spoiler-alert-its-crap.13426/

I don't think anyone will get too bothered about it.

Lumen

Joe1919 wrote: »

As far as I know, there is a class of non mpv vehicles like electrical powered hand carts, dustcarts, forklifts, lawnmowers etc where the speed is restricted and the operator walks and is not carried by the vehicle

They're called "pedestrian-controlled vehicles".

ted1

Joe1919 wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

In simple terms, anything with a throttle is illegal.
...

Not that simple......

Some bikes /kits have a facility called 'walk assist' that allows assistance up to 6 km/hr and is controlled by a button or sometimes a throttle. The throttle version is actually very useful if you have to get up a very steep incline or stairs.

Then it’s not legal. It’s sunole

homer911

homer911 wrote: »

How do you turn this on?

See the diagram.

You just press the walk assist in the button and the motor engages. see the diagram below showing the walk assist button.

So now were getting concerned whether the walk assist button is legal now ? Christ, I'm going to hit the unsubscribe button if this madness continues, people really know how to take the good out of what could have otherwise been a fun and very interesting topic, electric bikes are a fun way to get around, DIY kits are a fun hobby to spend time with your sons while you put it together with them etc just like changing the oil in the car etc. Why must everything here be made into such a negative ?

ted1

Deleted User wrote: »

So now were getting concerned whether the walk assist button is legal now ? Christ, I'm going to hit the unsubscribe button if this madness continues, people really know how to take the good out of what could have otherwise been a fun and very interesting topic, electric bikes are a fun way to get around, DIY kits are a fun hobby to spend time with your sons while you put it together with them etc just like changing the oil in the car etc. Why must everything here be made into such a negative ?

We are not getting concerned, we are simply stating that it is.

magicbastarder

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes 32 Km/h would be a far more sensible cut off after all humans can pedal up to 32 Km/h and more.

i'd love to know how many cyclists can *sustain* 32km/h, especially on a bike with a battery and electric motor.

You don't have to sustain it, that's where the motor comes in to "assist" to allow you to pedal to the max you normally could on a lighter non electric bike. You'd be surprised how long you can sustain a heavier bike on level ground, again , if you get tired or slow down the motor can assist while you're still putting in a lot of effort, motor cutting out at 25 Km/h means you have to fight the extra resistance of an electric bike meaning a slower top speed with 0 assistance, this makes no sense and assistance at higher speeds greatly improves fitness after a couple of weeks of daily riding.

A lot of ebikes come with a rear geared hub too which I'm not that fond of, it's fine with an assisted bike but geared hubs cause a resistance that normal gears do not, you still have the normal 9 speed cassette, the hub compensates for the omission of the two front chain rings. The sram dual drive actually allows the Bosch on my bike to climb pretty steep hills. I got from the bottom Gate of Mount Leinster all the way to the top at the RTE mast on it , it was pretty tough I have to say even with the assistance but I got up which otherwise I would not and without the Sram DD2 hub I would not have had the gearing to allow me either, the motor would have been under too much strain and would have heated to the point it cut out. That's some of the steepest stuff anyone will ever climb to be honest, especially via any form of road.

Some cheaper ebikes only have the 9 speed cassette which limits how steep they can climb.

1bryan

Just curious as to whether people here have seen an increase in unregulated E-Bikes and electric scooters of late, or whether it's just me. Particularly in and close to town there seems to be people on electric scooters in the bike lanes. They don't seem capable of getting up much speed so they're a bit of a nuisance when you find one blocking you.

A bigger problem is the apparent increase in unregulated e-bikes. Almost daily I'm seeing people on bikes with actual motors attached (that make noise similar to a lawnmowers), and they're absolutely flying by at ridiculous speed.

It was easy enough to turn a blind eye to these when they were few and far between, but surely the time is coming that a clampdown is needed? Before someone gets seriously hurt.

beauf

I haven't. Maybe I'm not on the routes they frequent.

https://www.joe.ie/news/garda-motorised-bicycle-646669

homer911

See plenty of electric scooters and some electric bikes on throttles which also exceed the legal speed limits

Yes there needs to be regulation but the regulations are ridiculous and this is why people are building these bikes themselves.

There are two issues, the regulations are too restrictive and the cost of type approved ebikes is too high for proper bikes with Bosch/Panasonic motors.

You can add a very high quality kit that can travel 60 odd Km/h for as little as 1200 Euro's.

I decommissioned my high powered bike which I regret and got a type approved bike as I miss the ability to climb really steep hills easier and when my legs get too tired the ability to use a throttle and also the sheer freewheeling ability when not peddling because I like to pedal as much as possible. Some hub motors called direct drive motors are a devil to pedal as there's always a big drag and there are geared hubs with clutches that are very easy to pedal with hardly any drag then there are the chain drive motors which sometimes can have a drag that's noticeable but some of the newer ones might have resolved that.

Legislators don't understand mechanics or electronics and come up with stupid laws that make people seek alternatives.

A disgracefully low 250 watt power limit is insane, and this is not enough to pull you out of bed never mind a heavier rider up a steep hill.

The most important things on an ebike are speed and acceleration restrictions and "NOT" power limits.

Bosch get around the 250 watt limit through the use of many sensors that restrict speed and acceleration, many other probably do this too.

The Bosch 250 watt system from 2013 , the one I have , is capable of 500 watts and 750 peak, without that power you're not getting up that steep hill.

There are other cheap ebikes people should avoid, the ones with front hub motors and look like something you'd buy in halfords for 100 Euro.

The best legal ebikes do not use hubs and instead use chain drive motors that being said there are some decent ebike manufacturers that use rear hubs but most likely using more power but really people need to try before buying if possible or at least review the bike online.

I live in the country so can get away with a lot more but even when I was in town I never abused the fact that I was on a high power bike ( up to 5 Kw peak ) and had a low power switch that limited my speed to 15 Km/h and acceleration was severely restricted too) in town I usually peddled anyway.

So while I never drew attention to myself there are many people on bikes who will abuse it and this is that's what cause the problems for both normal cyclists and those on non legal bikes.

beauf

The current limits are copied from the EU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#European_Union_definition

Chips Lovell

1bryan wrote: »

Just curious as to whether people here have seen an increase in unregulated E-Bikes and electric scooters of late, or whether it's just me. Particularly in and close to town there seems to be people on electric scooters in the bike lanes. They don't seem capable of getting up much speed so they're a bit of a nuisance when you find one blocking you.

Yeah, I've noticed a serious increase over the past year or so. It ranges from those stand-on electric scooters that move so slowly that you wonder why their owners don't bother buying a bike, to modified electric bikes doing astonishing speeds. There's one lad on my commute who regularly passes me doing around 50kph!

There are legal ebikes ( pedelecs ) that go 50 odd Km/h but must be insured and have license plate.

The whole issue isn't the bikes themselves but the people riding these bikes. Common sense goes out the window as usual.

The laws however do need to be changed. There is a reason that the limit is 1 Kw in the U.S.

Chips Lovell

I know myself from riding with a power meter and knowing someone with a street legal e-bike, that 250w is a lot of assistance.

1kw is insane. It's the kind of power a decent racing cyclist could only sustain for around 10 seconds.

250 watts is not a lot of assistance for those who are unfit going up hills , this is where you really need the power and 250 watts just doesn't cut it.

That 250 watts might be fine for whizzing past you on a city/town street and make it appear to be very powerful.

As I said Bosch ( and probably many more these days ) is more like 500 watts and could be more on their newer generation of bikes, mine is from 2013 and only about 50 nm of torque which will pull me up anything but it would be nice to have twice the torque. It even got me up mount leinster to the RTE mast but it was very very tough. Having said that I'm not near as fit as I was about 5 years ago since before I start shift work and before my Eldest Son was born. My time for cycling is very very limited if at all possible.

The only important thing with ebikes is not watts, power, but acceleration and top speed. Not even a throttle is a danger.

If ebikes only havd 250 watts then most bike reviews would rate them very poorly so it's high time the laws just change to reflect what is actually sensible and reality, that is that probably most of the good quality ebikes are running a lot more than 250 watts.

Chips Lovell

To put this into context, I'm in decent shape and got up the Wicklow Gap at a good lick the other week average 350w. I'm a big fella (90kg), so smaller riders would need less power than me to do it at the same speed.

Pretty much anyone with 250w assistance, no matter how out of shape they are, is going to get up the hills. I know this because I've seen it with my own two eyes.

Borderfox

There is a lot of illegal stuff on the road around Santry, from electric and petrol scooters to the one wheel things that you straddle

Simple way around it is to ban them from sale unless type approved