Courier added VAT?

rawn

DHL (excellent response times from them btw) confirmed that the freight charge was calculated as the shipper did not specify how much they charged for shipping. I asked if i could get a refund of the difference if i provided am invoice and they said

"I’m afraid not, Customs will not allow this. If the information was not on the paperwork when it came into the country they will not accept any amendments ."

I guess I'll have to bring it up with the seller then.

whiterebel

rawn wrote: »

DHL (excellent response times from them btw) confirmed that the freight charge was calculated as the shipper did not specify how much they charged for shipping. I asked if i could get a refund of the difference if i provided am invoice and they said

"I’m afraid not, Customs will not allow this. If the information was not on the paperwork when it came into the country they will not accept any amendments ."

I guess I'll have to bring it up with the seller then.

If you have the tracking number for DHL it should tell you when it left the seller. It seems to me that they were slow getting the order out and shipped it express, but only charged you normal post. Not much you can do as Revenue wouldn't accept €11 for a 2/3 day service.

rawn

whiterebel wrote:

If you have the tracking number for DHL it should tell you when it left the seller. It seems to me that they were slow getting the order out and shipped it express, but only charged you normal post. Not much you can do as Revenue wouldn't accept €11 for a 2/3 day service.

Yeah that makes sense. I will speak with the seller about it though, if the seller had charged a higher price to cover the cost correctly i would still have bought it, i just don't like being surprised with an extra 41e bill on delivery!

Dades

If you ordered it 26 July and it arrived in Ireland in September would that not be totally in keeping with a cheap €11 charge?

I don't see how they can pull a number out of their ass like €62.06 and then refuse to change it with proof of the actual cost.

I can't see what contacting the seller will achieve. Their not going to be interested in customs shenanigans and I wouldn't blame them, tbh.

readytosnap

No matter what way you dress (ahem) it up, you won't be getting a refund from anybody, I think it's time to let it go, let it go...

StupidLikeAFox

rawn wrote: »

Yeah that makes sense. I will speak with the seller about it though, if the seller had charged a higher price to cover the cost correctly i would still have bought it, i just don't like being surprised with an extra 41e bill on delivery!

Well once customs caught the package you were always gonna be stung with some sort of bill. You are probably only out of pocket by about €15 or €20 all things considered

whiterebel

Dades wrote: »

If you ordered it 26 July and it arrived in Ireland in September would that not be totally in keeping with a cheap €11 charge?

I don't see how they can pull a number out of their ass like €62.06 and then refuse to change it with proof of the actual cost.

I can't see what contacting the seller will achieve. Their not going to be interested in customs shenanigans and I wouldn't blame them, tbh.

Even to ship it via container would cost a minimum of $50-60 for that sort of timeframe. For small parcels, couriers can be more economical unless its up against normal postal service. It might be the case that the shipper missed the cut-off for normal post, charged the OP the postal rate, but shipped it DHL to make sure it made it on time.
DHL/Fedex/UPS/TNT have rate books which they can refer to for shipments to/from anywhere in the world. This is what they would use if anyone queries the carriage cost.

Dades

How do companies like DealExtreme and Alibaba sellers manage to offer free postage on cheap goods? I got cycling gear from an Alibaba seller sent free, when the product was only about $25. Took ages, but so did the OPs dress.

I'd be interested hear from the seller here if they really did have to use a pricier delivery option or if someone's adding liberal charges for no reason.

tsue921i8wljb3

Is the problem here that the Chinese sellers have access to much cheaper rates from the major couriers either directly or through agents? The couriers however use the European rates when calculating VAT and Duty due.

BoatMad

Roselyn Substantial Hyacinth wrote: »

Is the problem here that the Chinese sellers have access to much cheaper rates from the major couriers either directly or through agents? The couriers however use the European rates when calculating VAT and Duty due.

This isnt the case, this only happens when the seller does not provide sufficient paperwork to indicate the courier charge

The standard way for this is a proper invoice contained in a documents attached folder on the outside of the package, this is done specifically to allow customs authorities to allocate the correct costs

unfortunately the cheapie Chinese sellers , dont bother and hence charges must be determined at customs clearance time and in that case standard local charges are assigned for the purposes of calculating VAT . what they often do is just place the postal declaration sticker on the outside and that does not provide sufficient information to calculate VAT

basically you're stuck with it

tsue921i8wljb3

BoatMad wrote: »

This isnt the case, this only happens when the seller does not provide sufficient paperwork to indicate the courier charge

The standard way for this is a proper invoice contained in a documents attached folder on the outside of the package, this is done specifically to allow customs authorities to allocate the correct costs

unfortunately the cheapie Chinese sellers , dont bother and hence charges must be determined at customs clearance time and in that case standard local charges are assigned for the purposes of calculating VAT . what they often do is just place the postal declaration sticker on the outside and that does not provide sufficient information to calculate VAT

basically you're stuck with it

But would there be a discrepancy between standard local charges and Chinese charges?

BoatMad

Roselyn Substantial Hyacinth wrote: »

But would there be a discrepancy between standard local charges and Chinese charges?

very much so, courier costs from China are some of the most competitive in the world as these small chineese sellers use huge groupage rates to reduce costs . ( this is how China post does it as well )

Dades

BoatMad, that's the post we've all been waiting for.

My only gripe is that if the consignee can produce evidence of the actual freight cost that VAT is chargeable on it should be revised. It's not their fault sellers leave out the paperwork.

The revenue take enough of our cash without bumping up figures to charge VAT on.

BoatMad

Dades wrote: »

BoatMad, that's the post we've all been waiting for.

My only gripe is that if the consignee can produce evidence of the actual freight cost that VAT is chargeable on it should be revised. It's not their fault sellers leave out the paperwork.

The revenue take enough of our cash without bumping up figures to charge VAT on.

No " clearance " is " clearance " , The process is applied at the point of import using the evidence ( or lack of it ) at that particular time. Once the fees are paid , the goods are in free circulation within the EU. There is no post process recalculation , unless revenue err.

This process goes back hundreds of years.

It's the responsibility of the consigner to attach appropriate paperwork. Otherwise revenue would be deluged with people post processing paperwork to suit and attempting to claim refunds

ED E

Thats fine, if revenue calculate it at the DMC/Portlaoise. But they arent, its DHL who are not revenue staff.

With Revenue:
Rev:Hey, customs are due
You: No, see this invoice
Rev: Ok cool, released

With DHL:
DHL: Here's your package
DHL: You owe us VAT+ Charges
You: No I dont, see invoice
DHL: Well we went ahead and paid them so cough up

BoatMad

ED E wrote: »

Thats fine, if revenue calculate it at the DMC/Portlaoise. But they arent, its DHL who are not revenue staff.

With Revenue:
Rev:Hey, customs are due
You: No, see this invoice
Rev: Ok cool, released

With DHL:
DHL: Here's your package
DHL: You owe us VAT+ Charges
You: No I dont, see invoice
DHL: Well we went ahead and paid them so cough up

Revenue never calculate anything, its a self assessment basis , the courier firm has a responsibility to collect customs and VAT ( like all business ), how it derives that, is actually up to it ( as is the case with all businesses ).

DHL clear on a group basis , they cant have a situation where a container is held while ( you and others) fumble around sorting out paperwork , They take the documentation available at import time and that is used. There is for business with regular situations a TAIN account and that can be used to repay or balance out charges over time if required. This is not done for small imports.

stop blaming DHL , the original consigner did not declare the values appropriately ( its clearly not a gift etc ) and thats the end of it

ED E

I really dont see how Revenue & AP can do it while a courier can't especially considering DMC processes in excess of 2M items/day.

BoatMad

ED E wrote: »

I really dont see how Revenue & AP can do it while a courier can't especially considering DMC processes in excess of 2M items/day.

most which dont need clearance

whiterebel

ED E wrote: »

I really dont see how Revenue & AP can do it while a courier can't especially considering DMC processes in excess of 2M items/day.

An Post operate in a different sphere to the couriers. Courier by nature is very expensive and costs a lot more than standard post. Chances are, freight cost on an express parcel from China would put a shipment over the threshhold for VAT, never mind the article itself. With An Post it wouldn't be unusual to see stamps on a parcel amounting to a couple of euros, putting the consignment under the threshold.

BoatMad

whiterebel wrote: »

An Post operate in a different sphere to the couriers. Courier by nature is very expensive and costs a lot more than standard post. Chances are, freight cost on an express parcel from China would put a shipment over the threshhold for VAT, never mind the article itself. With An Post it wouldn't be unusual to see stamps on a parcel amounting to a couple of euros, putting the consignment under the threshold.

actually this is not necessaryily the case and many freight companies actually have the contract for carrying airmail

IN reality there is no real difference between an post and the couriers, when on post inform you of the clearance and VAT on a parcel, AN post have already cleared that parcel and you have no debate as to the value, you cant argue with them. VAT is charged in the normal way

The only advantage is that the nature of the postage costs are directly obvious upon inspection and hence do not have too be estimated. IN a courier cases there is no equivalent " stamps" and hence value has to be determined from the documentation supporting the shipment ( and of course VAT is applicable to courier charges and not stamps )

its no different between the two, in the process of clearing good and arriving at a determination

Of course for large value shipments this is not how it works, as in this case there is bonded storage etc

whiterebel

BoatMad wrote: »

actually this is not necessaryily the case and many freight companies actually have the contract for carrying airmail

IN reality there is no real difference between an post and the couriers, when on post inform you of the clearance and VAT on a parcel, AN post have already cleared that parcel and you have no debate as to the value, you cant argue with them. VAT is charged in the normal way

The only advantage is that the nature of the postage costs are directly obvious upon inspection and hence do not have too be estimated. IN a courier cases there is no equivalent " stamps" and hence value has to be determined from the documentation supporting the shipment ( and of course VAT is applicable to courier charges and not stamps )

its no different between the two, in the process of clearing good and arriving at a determination

Of course for large value shipments this is not how it works, as in this case there is bonded storage etc

Some do carry mail, but usually a big bag of it with hundreds of envelopes in which works out at cents per piece. It used to be the case that inbound post would be organised by the sending postal service, and all An Post have to do is clear and deliver. Still a massive difference between Postal service and courier work, bigger again if you get the 2 or 3 weeks service option.

BoatMad

whiterebel wrote: »

Some do carry mail, but usually a big bag of it with hundreds of envelopes in which works out at cents per piece. It used to be the case that inbound post would be organised by the sending postal service, and all An Post have to do is clear and deliver. Still a massive difference between Postal service and courier work, bigger again if you get the 2 or 3 weeks service option.

maybe , but its not germane to the thread, the issue is that both operations must collect customs and VAT where necessary, both operate the same way in that regard

readytosnap

Yer one is married and back from the honeymoon an all and yis are still trying to work it out

rawn

readytosnap wrote:

Yer one is married and back from the honeymoon an all and yis are still trying to work it out

Lol! I've messaged the seller explaining what happened, so at least they know in the future, but got no reply back. All other communications were replied to promptly so i can only assume they've been here before and aren't interested in changing their ways, so i left honest, negative feedback regarding the issue so the next person will be aware!