Objecting to the National Anthem

Richard Hillman

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

So making a peaceful protest means you should lose your job.Just shows how right Kaepernick and anyone who wants to do this is as if going against the establishment means you should be sacked then surely it shows how unbelievably idiotic/brainwashed a large percentage of people in America must be.He's perfectly entitled to make this protest if he wants and should be allowed to do as he pleases without any chance of losing his job.

People forget that the right to protest means that you can protest without breaking the law. It does not mean that you cannot be ostracized from society.

BoJack Horseman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You are far more likely to be killed by police in the US if you are black than if you are white

A statement that on it's own is pointless.
A useful context to frame it in might be the proportion of criminality relative to race.

However what is certainly irrefutable is that if a black person is killed by a gun, the trigger person is also most likely to be black...... Colin should perhaps get his socks to reflect that!

Now, Colin can protest against the police or "the man" or whatever he wants..... my point is his protest has no end, because violent crime also has no end.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Richard Hillman wrote: »

People forget that the right to protest means that you can protest without breaking the law. It does not mean that you cannot be ostracized from society.

But that's a fairly childish response to someone who holds a different opinion than yourself.

If you can't have an opinion without being blackballed then it really is an indictment of a democratic country.

Imagine to reaction in Ireland if an employer treathened to dismiss an employee for not standing for the national anthem, they'd be torn to shreds by everybody.

Tin Roofer

How does he feel about black on black crime? Black lives don't seem to matter to many black people.

AbusesToilets

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You are far more likely to be killed by police in the US if you are black than if you are white. And the number of people being killed by police is rising.

So far this year 810 people have been killed by police in the US - in the same period 38 police officers have been shot dead.

One of the latest incidents was in Florida when a 56 year old black man carrying a knife was shot dead by two policemen. The man's sister said she called the police because of a domestic disturbance but when they arrived he was sitting on his own in the back yard with a pocket knife in his hand. If this guy was white it is likely that they would have tried to disarm him instead of shooting him.

You are also far more likely to be murdered by a black person, especially if you are another black person.

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Are they going to protest the number of black people killed by other black people?

Or acknowledge that black men are responsible for the majority of murders that occur annually, despite the small fraction they represent of the total population?

Or are they going to acknowledge that more white people are killed by cops annually than black people?

So tired of the media boiling every issue down into a race baiting affair, and ignoring the reality of the situation.

Why would they?

Black Lives Matter was set up to address systemic and institutional racism, particularly by the police force. Which seems to be a legitimate concern.

I don't think they have suggested that they are countering all violence in society, gang related violence, domestic abuse etc. etc.

I'm not sure sitting or kneeling during the anthem is appropriate, although I do think it's pretty brave, but to say that "they ignore this issue or that" is to miss the point, it wasn't set up to deal with all violence.

TommyRiordan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure sitting or kneeling during the anthem is appropriate, although I do think it's pretty brave, but to say that "they ignore this issue or that" is to miss the point, it wasn't set up to deal with all violence.

You're right, he did it to make sure he didn't get cut from his team as a backup qb like was likely gonna happen. Can hide behind his skin colour now.

TommyRiordan

TommyRiordan wrote: »

You're right, he did it to make sure he didn't get cut from his team as a backup qb like was likely gonna happen. Can hide behind his skin colour now.

And the other players doing it, they in on this effort to save his career or could there actually be an issue that you are ignoring?

Given your location, are similarly dismissive when it comes to James McClean?

poldebruin

TommyRiordan wrote: »

You're right, he did it to make sure he didn't get cut from his team as a backup qb like was likely gonna happen. Can hide behind his skin colour now.

I don't think this would stop San Francisco from cutting him, would be easy to point to his sub standard play. Having Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder as their other options is probably giving them pause, or perhaps they think there is some trade value to be had. I don't doubt he's done in San Francisco.

Seattle will be linking arms before their game today...it seems everyone is busy thinking up ways they can respectably protest the anthem/flag! Can it be that all 53 players agreed to this gesture? The press release before the game suggests to me that they hope other teams might copy their protest. What would happen if say 26 players linked arms while 26 players did not. Lets say this divide happened along racial lines, would this be good for the team?

poldebruin

poldebruin wrote: »

Seattle will be linking arms before their game today...it seems everyone is busy thinking up ways they can respectably protest the anthem/flag! Can it be that all 53 players agreed to this gesture? The press release before the game suggests to me that they hope other teams might copy their protest. What would happen if say 26 players linked arms while 26 players did not. Lets say this divide happened along racial lines, would this be good for the team?

A along as each side respected the others views, and didn't seek to enforce their personal decision one way or another, then it shouldn't harm morale any more than, say, disagreement over Clinton or Trump.

Jolly Red Giant

TommyRiordan wrote: »

You're right, he did it to make sure he didn't get cut from his team as a backup qb like was likely gonna happen. Can hide behind his skin colour now.

If the 49ers cut Kaerpernick he would walk away with $19million - and probably walk straight into another team for a further $10-$12million (Dallas, Minnesota for example).

To suggest that he did it because he wanted to avoid getting cut is nonsense - in fact they were far more likely to cut him given the culture of the NFL.

Adamcp898

Some wacky reasoning from Trent Dilfer now.......

Some of you might have already seen it but for those that haven't; on ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown when they were discussing Kaepernick and his protest he came out with some idiotic bull**** about how he's putting himself ahead first and drawing undue attention and pressure to the team by protesting and since he's a backup QB he should be keeping quiet and focusing on helping prepare Gabbert and the team.

Kaepernick after the game was asked to comment and fairly said that he hopes Trent will go away and think more about the issues and why it's important for him to have a voice.

Well.......now Trent has decided to double down on his stupidity and bizarrely tell us all how he could've ended child slavery but chose not to because he knew it was his duty as backup QB to Matt Hasselbeck at the Seahawks to put football first.

My wife and I had been introduced to some really disturbing stuff and other social injustices: Childhood slavery in our country. And I’d gone to a couple seminars and presentations where we got really deep in the weeds about this issue. It became a passion of ours to help fight this battle of childhood slavery around the country and I had a very big platform in Seattle and I could have leveraged being a Seattle Seahawk, being an NFL quarterback, done a lot to get that message out there, but I chose not to at the sake of not wanting to disrupt the team and I never want to draw attention to myself, and take it away from Matt, the rest of our team and our preparation to win.

Some of the comments on the Deadspin article are glorious

adrian522

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Some wacky reasoning from Trent Dilfer now.......

Some of you might have already seen it but for those that haven't; on ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown when they were discussing Kaepernick and his protest he came out with some idiotic bull**** about how he's putting himself ahead first and drawing undue attention and pressure to the team by protesting and since he's a backup QB he should be keeping quiet and focusing on helping prepare Gabbert and the team.

Kaepernick after the game was asked to comment and fairly said that he hopes Trent will go away and think more about the issues and why it's important for him to have a voice.

Well.......now Trent has decided to double down on his stupidity and bizarrely tell us all how he could've ended child slavery but chose not to because he knew it was his duty as backup QB to Matt Hasselbeck at the Seahawks to put football first.



Some of the comments on the Deadspin article are glorious

Yeah, there was a tweet from Eli Harold as well calling him out.

Trent Dilfer you are an idiot. You really just pissed me off.

— Mad Max (@EliHarold_) September 11, 2016

He followed that up after game with this:

What really pissed me off is when he said, ‘Your job as a back up quarterback is to make sure the guy above you is ready. You shouldn’t have the right to say that, You shouldn’t have a right to put yourself on a pedestal, and make yourself above the team.’

How did he make himself above the team? How? Where in what Kap is doing, where has he once put himself above the team?

And he said that it’s dividing the locker room. First of all, how do you know what our locker room is? How do you know how we act in the locker room? Everybody says that Kap is isolated, everybody says that he does stuff without guys. Kap is a great guy. He’s smart, he reads a lot, he’s all for the team. So [Dilfer’s] comments, that just really took me over the edge.

He is seen by many as a mouthpiece for the FO in SF. Oftentimes he will come out with things that could only have come from the front office and in particular from the GM. e.g leaking stories about Kaepernick not paying attention in meetings. The line about how the protest is tearing the team apart is what is most suspicious. Like how would he know that?

JaMarcusHustle

Dilfer probably realised he hadn't embarrassed himself on a national level in a few months and figured it was overdue. That's all this is.

Adamcp898

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, there was a tweet from Eli Harold as well calling him out.



He followed that up after game with this:



He is seen by many as a mouthpiece for the FO in SF. Oftentimes he will come out with things that could only have come from the front office and in particular from the GM. e.g leaking stories about Kaepernick not paying attention in meetings. The line about how the protest is tearing the team apart is what is most suspicious. Like how would he know that?

Forgot there was a thread for this otherwise I would've posted here to begin with.

But yeah I've heard the links to Trent Baalke stuff. No idea why he'd decide it's a good idea to act as a mouthpiece on an issue like this.

Trojan

This issue totally changed my view on Kap, I have a lot more respect for him now.

As for the folks who think "they should protest in a less disruptful way", it just doesn't work like that. History shows that protests have to be disruptful before any action is taken.

raze_them_all_

America land of the free and free speech, unless you choose to exercise it

Adamcp898

Trojan wrote: »

This issue totally changed my view on Kap, I have a lot more respect for him now.

As for the folks who think "they should protest in a less disruptful way", it just doesn't work like that. History shows that protests have to be disruptful before any action is taken.

And it's not even disruptive......

Podge_irl

I have to say, my biggest problem is with those who say they agree with his point but he should find some other way to express it, without in any way giving an indication as to what they think that better way is. It seems like the better way to them is one that is "quieter" (as if there is a quieter way to protest then simply sitting) and one in which they are not forced to confront the issue themselves.

The "reverence" for the military in the NFL, and America in general, is both disturbing and frankly cheap. Standing for the anthem is, in general, both the least they can do and the least they will do. I dislike the association between sports and military that has developed - and consider little more than a calculated marketing move from the sports associations involved.

Anyway, I don't really doubt Kaep's motives. Maybe he wouldn't be doing it if he was still the starter, but perhaps being benched made him realise he had a limited window to use his position to do something. I think his motivation is valid, I think the socks were stupid, and I think he has largely been quite dignified in the face of pretty appalling abuse at times.

Mike Freeman put it pretty well

This is a league that has signed domestic abusers, accused murderers, players who killed another person while driving drunk and dudes who park in handicap spaces. But Kaepernick is the most hated person he's ever seen? A nonviolent protest? Really?

Yes, apparently, really.

Actually just incomprehensibly insane.

shotgunmcos

I applaud anyone in a public influential situation to make a statement about what is fundamentally wrong with American Society. Despite the intellect or not of the person, its their decision to say something in a way a voice cannot illustrate. They are not politically crafted animals so the effort is undoubtedly awkward. The socks was provocative. Its the intention that matters.


Who would be a law enforcer in a society where 1 in 3 people over 14yrs carries a loaded weapon?! Its a bigger problem than just the police

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'm failing to see the reasoning behind this protest to be honest.

Guys like Coin Kaepernick would be better served using their influence to highlight the massive problem with black on black violence and organised crime within poor black communities. FBI statistics are facts. A fact is a fact and it cannot be racist.

There is obviously a reason behind why cops continually come into contact with African Americans.

Most police forces in the US are also very diverse. Look at the likes of Baltimore for instance where the riots occurred a couple of years back, majority black force, black chief, black mayor.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm failing to see the reasoning behind this protest to be honest.

Guys like Coin Kaepernick would be better served using their influence to highlight the massive problem with black on black violence and organised crime within poor black communities. FBI statistics are facts. A fact is a fact and it cannot be racist.

There is obviously a reason behind why cops continually come into contact with African Americans.

Most police forces in the US are also very diverse. Look at the likes of Baltimore for instance where the riots occurred a couple of years back, majority black force, black chief, black mayor.

It is your prerogative to dismiss the claims of systemic and institutionalised racism in the police force.

But not sure you can prescribe that he should too, because he should be more concerned about something else.

What is the "obvious reason" why they come into contact with black people? Do you think they are naturally more violent?

Manic Moran

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

If the 49ers cut Kaerpernick he would walk away with $19million - and probably walk straight into another team for a further $10-$12million (Dallas, Minnesota for example).

Since Kaep is in the local news again today (I'm in SF) given that he has been unable to find new employment, I thought the above quote somewhat amusing.

Jayop

Manic Moran wrote: »

Since Kaep is in the local news again today (I'm in SF) given that he has been unable to find new employment, I thought the above quote somewhat amusing.

A hell of a lot has changed in the US in the last 8 months Tbf.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Manic Moran wrote: »

Since Kaep is in the local news again today (I'm in SF) given that he has been unable to find new employment, I thought the above quote somewhat amusing.

Hello Captain Hindsight!