Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

I suspect the Indo has done one of its usual selective quote jobs, to incite outrage. It seems to have worked...

I don't know, wouldn't read the Indo

RugbyLover123

Sky have the Full games from '01 - '13 on demand. Watching the first test from '09 at the moment and it's interesting to see how much the game has changed.
The High tackle in particular, 2 incidents in the first 42 minutes would be a yellow & a red in today's game from SA. The scrum is was also a mess and the new laws have improved it a lot.
That first half couldn't have been worse for the lions though, that bok team was littered with quality and experience and then there was very average Lions players, Lee Mears, Ugo Monye.
Never seen so much kicking in a half of rugby either.

Yeah_Right

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Sky have the Full games from '01 - '13 on demand. Watching the first test from '09 at the moment and it's interesting to see how much the game has changed.
The High tackle in particular, 2 incidents in the first 42 minutes would be a yellow & a red in today's game from SA. The scrum is was also a mess and the new laws have improved it a lot.
That first half couldn't have been worse for the lions though, that bok team was littered with quality and experience and then there was very average Lions players, Lee Mears, Ugo Monye.
Never seen so much kicking in a half of rugby either.

Brilliant. Going to settle in and watch the '05 series.

dadad231

Been watching the 05 series myself a bit lately, its good stuff.

Buer

Interesting piece from D'Arcy this morning. Unusual to see such an in deoth piece of analysis on southern hemisphere rugby in a broadsheet but worth a read, particularly for our Kiwi residents, I imagine.

It looks like D'Arcy has been reading some of Murray Kinsella's pieces given the use of GIFs. In short, he reckons BB is someone that can be got at but the blueprint was set down by Matt Todd and Ryan Crotty at the weekend.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-lions-must-follow-crusaders-lead-to-curb-beauden-barrett-1.3085537

pickarooney

He just took Swiwi's pre game analysis and stuck a few pictures on it. Shut down Barrett is obvious advice but doing that has proved elusive. BB went walkabout for no apparent reason a few times but I don't​ think it's something you can easily force. It's all very well getting in his face until he pulls his toreador routine and scampers past you. He'll have Crotty beside him rather than opposite him and his role is a bit more nuanced than Laumape's 'wait for the pass and engage beserker mode' MO with the Hurricanes.

Dezekota

Bridge93 wrote: »

If I was to break it down as I see it:
Front Row - advantage Lions

Second Row - pretty even. An injury to one of the two All Black guys though and Lions take it. More depth here for the tourists.

Backrow - similar to second row. Naturally the Lions should have more depth

Half Backs - NZ here. Scrum halfs will be similar but Barrett is the best player in the world currently. A couple of disgusting wet days may level it up.

Centres - Area of perceived weakness for both. NZ to edge it but not by much

Back 3 - NZ all day every day

Hmm you forget the intangibles off bench impact which NZ will make all day long

and

Warren has never beaten NZ so thats a huge advantage to Steve Hansen

razorblunt

The issue with D'arcy's piece is that it presumes BB is not going to try and evolve his game and that Hansen won't have him running drills to learn and adapt to that sort of approach.

Former Former

razorblunt wrote: »

The issue with D'arcy's piece is that it presumes BB is not going to try and evolve his game and that Hansen won't have him running drills to learn and adapt to that sort of approach.

That's not a bad thing for the Lions either though.

If Barrett has got himself to where he is (i.e. possibly the best outhalf in the world) playing a certain type of game, and now NZ decide that they need to modify that in the next six weeks, then it adds a bit of uncertainty to the whole thing.

The huge advantage NZ have over the Lions is that they are a settled unit, all very familiar with each other and with the coach and game plan. Anything that chips away at that gives the Lions a glimmer of hope. If it's suddenly decided that Beauden Barrett needs to alter his game, then that would be great IMO.

I doubt it though. I think NZ will just play their own game and let the Lions take their best shot.

Christy42

razorblunt wrote: »

The issue with D'arcy's piece is that it presumes BB is not going to try and evolve his game and that Hansen won't have him running drills to learn and adapt to that sort of approach.

If he evolves his game that quickly NZ deserve to win easily. I reckon he will need to work on this for years.

razorblunt

Former Former wrote: »

That's not a bad thing for the Lions either though.

If Barrett has got himself to where he is (i.e. possibly the best outhalf in the world) playing a certain type of game, and now NZ decide that they need to modify that in the next six weeks, then it adds a bit of uncertainty to the whole thing.

The huge advantage NZ have over the Lions is that they are a settled unit, all very familiar with each other and with the coach and game plan. Anything that chips away at that gives the Lions a glimmer of hope. If it's suddenly decided that Beauden Barrett needs to alter his game, then that would be great IMO.

I doubt it though. I think NZ will just play their own game and let the Lions take their best shot.

Christy42 wrote: »

If he evolves his game that quickly NZ deserve to win easily. I reckon he will need to work on this for years.

Yeah I take both your points, but I think its unlikely he'll be caught again, who knows, the rest of the teams in Super Rugby might try the same approach now so that should make interesting viewing.

irishproduce

Are the games being covered by sky only or will they be on terrestrial tv?
Doubt it I suppose since it is a commercial venture.

sydthebeat

meh... darcys article is a bit of a puff piece to be honest.
essentially breaks down to "get the flankers to close him down and give him some rough treatment".. not exactly Einstein level stuff.
'Get at the 10 and we stifle their play' is rugby 101.

yeah Barrett had a poor day against crusaders... and he found himself under pressure, but it was pressure caused by both the crusdaders forwards and the weather conditions. Barrett was getting wet greasy ball on the back foot for a lot of the game, limiting his options completely. He wasnt as bad as the article suggests though. He had still the second highest meters made for the canes, only Laumape higher. He had the joint second highest number of defenders beaten (2) with Ardie, and again Laumpae lead the stats here with 6. With 1 clean break and 1 offload as well his stats in the game would be envious for a lot of high level 10s.

Interestingly, as an aside, his opposite mo'unga made 7 meters but beat 6 defenders in the process.. must have some serious side step

its in defense where we see clearly what the crusaders had in mind, forcing the canes half backs to make 16 tackles between them.
Crusaders played to their strengths and the conditions better than the canes, who made little allowance for the conditions.

Bridge93

Yeah the Lions won't have the forward dominance the Crusaders had. That was a complete demolition job of the Canes pack. Barrett in fairness to him didn't have a chance

The Lost Sheep

irishproduce wrote: »

Are the games being covered by sky only or will they be on terrestrial tv?
Doubt it I suppose since it is a commercial venture.

Sky only. Tour existed long before it "commercialised"

stephen_n

And Swiwi thought the Leinster fans gave little Jimmy Goperth a hard time? The New Zealand herald seems like a very balanced read :pac:

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

And Swiwi thought the Leinster fans gave little Jimmy Goperth a hard time? The New Zealand herald seems like a very balanced read :pac:

Matt O'connor turned him into a world class player

Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

And Swiwi thought the Leinster fans gave little Jimmy Goperth a hard time? The New Zealand herald seems like a very balanced read :pac:

Yeeeesh. A rare combination of complete ignorance and overwhelming superiority complex. What a genuinely nasty article.

Bazzo

stephen_n wrote: »

And Swiwi thought the Leinster fans gave little Jimmy Goperth a hard time? The New Zealand herald seems like a very balanced read :pac:

****ing hell it's been a while since I've read a piece where the author was so far up their own hole. That article would put Stephen Jones to shame.

Yeah_Right

Gopperth just proves that NH rugby is second division stuff where SH cast offs, hasbeens and neverwouldbes can earn a living


The author isn't a journalist. He is a "media personality". Pretty sure he hosts a talk back radio show as well where he tries to be controversial. I remember him as a soccer pundit. The NZ Herald has really slipped towards tabloid journalism with likes of Devlin and Rattue. Just professional trolls.

irishbucsfan

If a Kiwi is successful at a club Europe its because we're all rubbish at rugby.

If a Kiwi is not successful at a club in Europe its because we're rubbish at supporting foreigners.

Yeah_Right

Correct IBF.

stephen_n

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Gopperth just proves that NH rugby is second division stuff where SH cast offs, hasbeens and neverwouldbes can earn a living


The author isn't a journalist. He is a "media personality". Pretty sure he hosts a talk back radio show as well where he tries to be controversial. I remember him as a soccer pundit. The NZ Herald has really slipped towards tabloid journalism with likes of Devlin and Rattue. Just professional trolls.

If that article is anything to go by, they slid right past it on the way to the bottom.

CatFromHue

The NZ media in general is very thin skinned, as in even worse than ours.

Buer

Interesting that the Lions medical staff have examined Ken Owens and are due to conduct further examinations in the coming days.

Rumours already winding up that Hartley is the man on stand by.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

Interesting that the Lions medical staff have examined Ken Owens and are due to conduct further examinations in the coming days.

Rumours already winding up that Hartley is the man on stand by.

I believe The Falve, ex Irish team doctor, will be making that call. Another great Irish man on tour. Maybe he'll do some meddling for us on Hartley's entrance medical and we'll have him swapped out.

Former Former

You'd have to be very worried about Jack McGrath's tour prospects after tonight.

Furlong didn't look very comfortable coming off either.

Nor is Sexton fully right.

And O'Brien hasn't played in two months.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

You'd have to be very worried about Jack McGrath's tour prospects after tonight.

Furlong didn't look very comfortable coming off either.

Nor is Sexton fully right.

And O'Brien hasn't played in two months.

I was thinking earlier that SOB would need a good showing in the final to keep his seat on the plane, but now that Leinster have no more games I'm not so sure. How many undercooked backrows will Gatland really want to bring?

jr86

No comparison between sexton and Farrell the last two weeks...

In any case id eat my hat if Farrell didn't start bar injury. I'm truly amazed to see some posters leaving him out of predicted 15s

Farrell's days of being ordinary are long gone. I think his early career petulance still leave a sour taste amongst many Irish fans tbh

jr86

Former Former wrote: »

You'd have to be very worried about Jack McGrath's tour prospects after tonight.

Furlong didn't look very comfortable coming off either.

Nor is Sexton fully right.

And O'Brien hasn't played in two months.

I actually stuck a few quid on marler starting for the craic when thomond2006 put up the odds...

McGrath had a very average 6n sadly. Big chance mako will be used as an impact sub too