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Jump_In_Jack

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Your attitude speaks volumes for the type of denial which is typical of New Zealand rugby zealots.
That's the sad thing.
Don't anyone point out facts about dangerous play, nobody will believe it, especially if New Zealand have had some success which apparently disproves everything else.
Be more objective and you may be taken seriously.

You're just making yourself look silly now.

stephen_n

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Your attitude speaks volumes for the type of denial which is typical of New Zealand rugby zealots.
That's the sad thing.
Don't anyone point out facts about dangerous play, nobody will believe it, especially if New Zealand have had some success which apparently disproves everything else.
Be more objective and you may be taken seriously.

Do you honestly believe that the all blacks do it more than other teams? It's a professional game, every team in the world pushes the laws in any way they can to gain advantage.There is no holier than though position in this.

Jump_In_Jack

Basil3 wrote: »

You're just making yourself look silly now.

Classic

elefant

Rugby or any other sport, do people really consider committing fouls on the pitch and trying to get away without the ref penalising you as 'cheating'? I would never have thought of 'breaking the rules/laws' in sports as 'cheating'; it happens in just about every sport, all the time. It's part and parcel of competitive sport.

I *think* I've only just started to hear it being referred to as such recently, and always in relation to the All Blacks? Has this always been a thing?

molloyjh

elefant wrote: »

Rugby or any other sport, do people really consider committing fouls on the pitch and trying to get away without the ref penalising you as 'cheating'? I would never have thought of 'breaking the rules/laws' in sports as 'cheating'; it happens in just about every sport, all the time. It's part and parcel of competitive sport.

I *think* I've only just started to hear it being referred to as such recently, and always in relation to the All Blacks? Has this always been a thing?

I don't know whether it has always been a thing or not, but it definitely is cheating. Which, as stephen_n said, is committed by all professional teams. It's like complaining about McCaw at a ruck. He was an openside flanker ffs. If he wasn't acting the b*****ks at a ruck then he simply wasn't doing his job.

I think most people accept that cheating happens and it all comes down to the type of cheating. Small stuff, like slowing balls down illegally at rucks or whatever, you're not going to get bent out of shape over. It's the overly cynical or nasty stuff that most have a problem with. As with the binding/clearing out conversation about Mako, there's a lot of technically illegal stuff that we're happy to see let go up to a point.

TL;DR If you're chancing you're arm then it's probably fine. If you're being a dick then not so much.

shootermacg

stephen_n wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that the all blacks do it more than other teams? It's a professional game, every team in the world pushes the laws in any way they can to gain advantage.There is no holier than though position in this.

The game in dublin, was the only game that ever made me shout shout scumbags at a team!

pickarooney

elefant wrote: »

Rugby or any other sport, do people really consider committing fouls on the pitch and trying to get away without the ref penalising you as 'cheating'? I would never have thought of 'breaking the rules/laws' in sports as 'cheating'; it happens in just about every sport, all the time. It's part and parcel of competitive sport.

I *think* I've only just started to hear it being referred to as such recently, and always in relation to the All Blacks? Has this always been a thing?

It really came to prominence with Thierry Henry.

elefant

elefant wrote: »

Rugby or any other sport, do people really consider committing fouls on the pitch and trying to get away without the ref penalising you as 'cheating'? I would never have thought of 'breaking the rules/laws' in sports as 'cheating'; it happens in just about every sport, all the time. It's part and parcel of competitive sport.

I *think* I've only just started to hear it being referred to as such recently, and always in relation to the All Blacks? Has this always been a thing?

Well it is cheating, but it's cheating at rugby. Recently I've seen people on here comparing it to actual real life situations, or making it out as if you're a questionable character if you cheat on the rugby pitch, which imo is utterly absurd.

Yeah_Right

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Your attitude speaks volumes for the type of denial which is typical of New Zealand rugby zealots.
That's the sad thing.
Don't anyone point out facts about dangerous play, nobody will believe it, especially if New Zealand have had some success which apparently disproves everything else.
Be more objective and you may be taken seriously.

I think you're being a bit precious and throwing stones in a glass house.
I don't think fans from any country can claim that their side are all saints and angels. Players from all teams have done dirty stuff at some point. Sometimes intentional and sometimes accidental. Deal with it.

Yeah_Right

shootermacg wrote: »

The game in dublin, was the only game that ever made me shout shout scumbags at a team!

The reaction I received from some Irish fans after that match was at first hilarious. Then I realised they were serious and it was just sad. It reminded me of the outrage the Henri handball in 2010 and the calls for Ireland to be given dispensation to go to the WC any way. Cringe worthy stuff.

Must kiwi fans were happy for the Irish after Chicago but the reaction after the Dublin match really killed a lot of that goodwill which was disappointing.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The reaction I received from some Irish fans after that match was at first hilarious. Then I realised they were serious and it was just sad. It reminded me of the outrage the Henri handball in 2010 and the calls for Ireland to be given dispensation to go to the WC any way. Cringe worthy stuff.

Must kiwi fans were happy for the Irish after Chicago but the reaction after the Dublin match really killed a lot of that goodwill which was disappointing.

What I think of this post:

Yeah_Right

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What I think of this post:

WTF! How dare you bring up that match! Arrrggghhhh :mad:

Just kidding.

Yeah a lot of kiwi fans lost their **** after that match and rightly got stick for it. Looking back I'm sure some are embarrassed by their over reaction (I hope they are) but I think now some Paddies need to take a look in the mirror.

Please note I'm saying "some" not "all" and before anyone asks, I don't have stats. Just anecdotal evidence.

irishbucsfan

Some of the decisions that Peyper missed in the Dublin game were ridiculous and that's not just the yellow and red the citing commissioner pointed out after the game. I've no problem maintaining that position and I'm not remotely sorry for it.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Some of the decisions that Peyper missed in the Dublin game were ridiculous and that's not just the yellow and red the citing commissioner pointed out after the game. I've no problem maintaining that position and I'm not remotely sorry for it.

I assume the red is the Cane incident, which he was cleared of. Similar situation to SOB last weekend - possible red, cleared of wrongdoing.

I had a great night at that match with a few Irish lads, followed by plenty of beers after and gentle ribbing about some of the incidents. The aftermath on here is always much much worse

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Some of the decisions that Peyper missed in the Dublin game were ridiculous and that's not just the yellow and red the citing commissioner pointed out after the game. I've no problem maintaining that position and I'm not remotely sorry for it.

It's ok mate. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind. About anything. Ever.



Now hurry up with that match thread!

Podge_irl

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The reaction I received from some Irish fans after that match was at first hilarious. Then I realised they were serious and it was just sad. It reminded me of the outrage the Henri handball in 2010 and the calls for Ireland to be given dispensation to go to the WC any way. Cringe worthy stuff.

Must kiwi fans were happy for the Irish after Chicago but the reaction after the Dublin match really killed a lot of that goodwill which was disappointing.

God, that was the height of embarrassment.

I'm with ibf on this though - I didn't make a big deal out of it or anything and NZ were the better team but the officiating in that game was weak and more on-pitch punishments should have been doled out. But Peyper is a weak ref - as evidenced last weekend. I don't think they set out to injure Irish players or anything, but I do think they possibly got a little over exuberant.

Not like any of them dropped a knee into the head of a prone player in a ruck though so I'm not claiming a moral high ground. But it was poor officiating.

Burkie1203

Basil3 wrote: »

I assume the red is the Cane incident, which he was cleared of. Similar situation to SOB last weekend - possible red, cleared of wrongdoing.

I had a great night at that match with a few Irish lads, followed by plenty of beers after and gentle ribbing about some of the incidents. The aftermath on here is always much much worse

Fekitoa should not have been a YC. It should have been red and he scored the match defining try when he returned. Then he copped a ban for his tackle which got a YC.

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

I assume the red is the Cane incident, which he was cleared of. Similar situation to SOB last weekend - possible red, cleared of wrongdoing.

No, Cane shouldn't have seen red. Which is what we said at the time as well.

But the citing commissioner who cited him must have been as childish as the irish fans I guess.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Fekitoa should not have been a YC. It should have been red and he scored the match defining try when he returned. Then he copped a ban for his tackle which got a YC.

I will refer by default to the SOB incident at the RWC where he should have had a red after 30 seconds and completely escaped punishment. It's my go-to incident that demonstrates how Ireland has benefitted far more than any other team for a single poorly officiated offence in recent times.

Anyway, all this card talk is seriously boring. It's too much of a fixation over here. Teams can be beaten without reliance on cards.

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

I will refer by default to the SOB incident at the RWC where he should have had a red after 30 seconds and completely escaped punishment. It's my go-to incident that demonstrates how Ireland has benefitted far more than any other team for a single poorly officiated offence in recent times.

Anyway, all this card talk is seriously boring. It's too much of a fixation over here. Teams can be beaten without reliance on cards.

And teams can be beaten without dangerous tackles.

And in an ideal world we'd have games without either, just like in Chicago. But thats rugby, as you said before.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And teams can be beaten without dangerous tackles.

And in an ideal world we'd have games without either, just like in Chicago. But thats rugby, as you said before.

Completely agree

Ardillaun

I have some concerns about each player beyond Murray in that Lions back line, particularly in contact. Daly is lucky to be there, Watson is good when he's got space but not so much in tight corners and Williams has been dodgy under the high ball. In the ESPN stats, Farrell only missed one tackle in the last match but it stuck in my mind. I hope he's as solid as that on the weekend.

Sephiral

There is probably a bit of a question about how often NZ opponents have had head injuries in close games to be fair. I think that they just push the line as far as the can, like any champion team.

Anyway, any chance of talking about the game?


I think Farrell might give up a lot of yards on the gain line. There is not enough ball carriers to give go forward ball in the lions pack. Set piece and break down will be even, above factors will decide game.

Burkie1203

Basil3 wrote: »

I will refer by default to the SOB incident at the RWC where he should have had a red after 30 seconds and completely escaped punishment. It's my go-to incident that demonstrates how Ireland has benefitted far more than any other team for a single poorly officiated offence in recent times.

Anyway, all this card talk is seriously boring. It's too much of a fixation over here. Teams can be beaten without reliance on cards.

SoB incident wasnt spotted by the officials. There is a difference. He didnt escape punishment. He got banned.

Sephiral

Sephiral wrote: »

Anyway, any chance of talking about the game?


I think Farrell might give up a lot of yards on the gain line. There is not enough ball carriers to give go forward ball in the lions pack. Set piece and break down will be even, above factors will decide game.

NZ won the forward battle last weekend based on virtually every statistical metric you could use....despite being a man down. I think where the Lion's did succeed was in the dark arts of slowing the ball down, and defending from a borderline offside position, making it hard for the AB's to get go-forward ball. They'll be looking for more of the same tomorrow, I'd say.

The Lion's backline looked good last week, and once again a lot is going to hinge on how Sexton and Farrell function. I'm hoping Laumape gives Farrell a hard time. I'd also expect Barrett Jr to be tested a fair bit early on. If they can get him to wobble, they might have hit the jackpot.

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

NZ won the forward battle last weekend based on virtually every statistical metric you could use....despite being a man down. I think where the Lion's did succeed was in the dark arts of slowing the ball down, and defending from a borderline offside position, making it hard for the AB's to get go-forward ball. They'll be looking for more of the same tomorrow, I'd say.

The Lion's backline looked good last week, and once again a lot is going to hinge on how Sexton and Farrell function. I'm hoping Laumape gives Farrell a hard time. I'd also expect Barrett Jr to be tested a fair bit early on. If they can get him to wobble, they might have hit the jackpot.

If NZ's forwards were so dominant they probably wouldn't have left the half backs with such terrible quality ball at the end of the game, which really was one of the most important series of the game.

irishman86

Basil3 wrote: »

NZ won the forward battle last weekend based on virtually every statistical metric you could use....despite being a man down. I think where the Lion's did succeed was in the dark arts of slowing the ball down, and defending from a borderline offside position, making it hard for the AB's to get go-forward ball. They'll be looking for more of the same tomorrow, I'd say.

The Lion's backline looked good last week, and once again a lot is going to hinge on how Sexton and Farrell function. I'm hoping Laumape gives Farrell a hard time. I'd also expect Barrett Jr to be tested a fair bit early on. If they can get him to wobble, they might have hit the jackpot.

:pac::pac: Is that what were calling the Lions/Ireland defensive line these days, De Villiers would average a try a game with that line

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If NZ's forwards were so dominant they probably wouldn't have left the half backs with such terrible quality ball at the end of the game, which really was one of the most important series of the game.

That doesn't change what I said. Having dominance for a period at the end of the game doesn't negate all that came before it. If you're going to assume that the AB's have a full quota tomorrow, you'd have to expect them to win the forward battle, based on what we've seen for the entire tour.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

That doesn't change what I said. Having dominance for a period at the end of the game doesn't negate all that came before it. If you're going to assume that the AB's have a full quota tomorrow, you'd have to expect them to win the forward battle, based on what we've seen for the entire tour.

Actually just one match, the first test, not the entire tour. The Saturday Lions team has been on top comfortably in the against the other teams they've played, example against the Crusaders and the Maori.

Billy Beautiful Guillotine

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

Actually just one match, the first test, not the entire tour. The Saturday Lions team has been on top comfortably in the against the other teams they've played, example against the Crusaders and the Maori.

Perhaps overall the forward battle was quite even for the Crusaders match. The Crusaders scrum was stronger, though.

Point being, 8v8, the All Black's win at breakdown and set piece, based on what we've seen.

On the flip side, I'd say the Lions backs go into tomorrow in better form.