Would you break a law that was wrong?

steddyeddy

This interests me in case you haven't guessed. I lived in Tanzania and spent some time in other countries like Ethiopia where homosexuality was illegal. A friend of mine was volunteering there who was gay. He hid his sexuality but he did break the law privately in his own words.

In Ireland some consider the abortion laws as unethical and in Saudi Arabia women are repressed. If a law is what you consider to be morally wrong would you break it or abide by it?

I appreciate what is morally wrong is subjective.

Winterlong

If I could get away with breaking a law that I did not agree with - then yeah.
Smoking the good stuff is a classic example.
Drinking after hours.

fleet_admiral

Im guilty of taking pens from the bookies, take me to the gallows

livedadream

jaywalking... i dont know anyone who actually abides by this law 100% of the time.



there's a scale- murder= bad
stealing= bad
jawalking=not as bad
lock-ins= not bad

all illegal.

steddyeddy

livedadream wrote: »

jaywalking... i dont know anyone who actually abides by this law 100% of the time.



there's a scale- murder= bad
stealing= bad
jawalking=not as bad

To Ethiopians homosexuality is pretty bad.

BrokenArrows

Ive been known to do a few digits over the legal speed limit. A 40 zone on a dual carriageway with huge lanes and no merging traffic is fundamentally and morally wrong.

livedadream

steddyeddy wrote: »

To Ethiopians homosexuality is pretty bad.

well you find idiots everywhere...

ScumLord

Certainly. You can't let some toff in a stupid wig restrict your experience of life.

BrokenArrows

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im guilty of taking pens from the bookies, take me to the gallows

Or tiny pencils from argos.

Wanderer78

Regularly break the law, don't worry about it at all. Not all laws are there to help protect the majority

SmartinMartin

Jaywalking is not illegal in this country.

the evasion_kid

Yep customs and excise duty,i consider it thoroughly unjust

steddyeddy

livedadream wrote: »

well you find idiots everywhere...

True but unfortunately some idiots make the laws that govern a country.

livedadream

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Jaywalking is not illegal in this country.

Ireland has a jaywalking law that says that if you are within 50 metres of a pedestrian crossing you must use it to cross

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 (‘the Regulations’), wherein is stated:

46. (1) A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions in order to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians.
(2) A pedestrian facing a traffic light lamp which shows a red light shall not proceed beyond that light.
(3) A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where (…) [pedestrian lights] [have] been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the facing pedestrian lights is lit and emits a constant green light.

(…)

(7) On a roadway on which a (…) [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing.

do you mean its not a criminal offence?

Stigura

Fifth Amendment ....!

Mr. CooL ICE

I once ignored a sign that said "stay off the grass"

Simi

Stigura wrote: »

Fifth Amendment ....!

The amendment that deleted the special position of the Catholic church??

endacl

I regularly break the blasphemy law. Victimless crime.

SmartinMartin

livedadream wrote: »

Ireland has a jaywalking law that says that if you are within 50 metres of a pedestrian crossing you must use it to cross

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 (‘the Regulations’), wherein is stated:

46. (1) A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions in order to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians.
(2) A pedestrian facing a traffic light lamp which shows a red light shall not proceed beyond that light.
(3) A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where (…) [pedestrian lights] [have] been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the facing pedestrian lights is lit and emits a constant green light.

(…)

(7) On a roadway on which a (…) [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing.

do you mean its not a criminal offence?

Nope, I mean what I say. There is no general offence of jaywalking in this country. You are quoting the regulations relating to the use of a pedestrian crossing.

livedadream

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Nope, I mean what I say. There is no general offence of jaywalking in this country. You are quoting the regulations relating to the use of a pedestrian crossing.

dude i'm not going back and forth with you, jaywalking is ''to cross or walk in the street or road unlawfully or without regard for approaching traffic''

just because its not called jaywalking in the regulations doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

its covered by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997.

if you have another interpretation of jaywalking feel free to pm me to discuss other than that theres no need to derail the thread with the two of us going back and forth.

SmartinMartin

livedadream wrote: »

dude i'm not going back and forth with you, jaywalking is ''to cross or walk in the street or road unlawfully or without regard for approaching traffic''

just because its not called jaywalking in the regulations doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

its covered by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997.

if you have another interpretation of jaywalking feel free to pm me to discuss other than that theres no need to derail the thread with the two of us going back and forth.

That's an American definition. Jaywalking does not legally exist here.

Samaris

Well, pretty much like being religious and not following every word in the Old Testament, anyone living in a country that's been around more than a decade will have laws that people barely even know about, let alone follow. I doubt many people of respectable name and fortune in the UK practice archery for an hour a day in case the French invade.

I've probably broken the blasphemy law at some point or another. Any Jewish re-enactors probably didn't worry too much about their chainmail being illegal prior to 2006, and I doubt any French people here pay the French fine. While it's unlikely that many coffee makers here do mix sheep dung with their coffee, it probably isn't because of the legalities of it (yeah, specifically illegal! Cow dung is fine.) Also, and I don't know until how recently, Irish men were forbidden from owning white horses or having facial hair. The two are apparently not connected. In the North, it is still technically illegal to go to the cinema on a Sunday. Etcetera.

http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/irelands-most-bizarre-laws/9455 For those and other weird laws here.

I've broken laws that are right.

YFlyer

Freeman on the Land crazies ignore all laws.

steddyeddy

Samaris wrote: »

Well, pretty much like being religious and not following every word in the Old Testament, anyone living in a country that's been around more than a decade will have laws that people barely even know about, let alone follow. I doubt many people of respectable name and fortune in the UK practice archery for an hour a day in case the French invade.

I've probably broken the blasphemy law at some point or another. Any Jewish re-enactors probably didn't worry too much about their chainmail being illegal prior to 2006, and I doubt any French people here pay the French fine. While it's unlikely that many coffee makers here do mix sheep dung with their coffee, it probably isn't because of the legalities of it (yeah, specifically illegal! Cow dung is fine.) Also, and I don't know until how recently, Irish men were forbidden from owning white horses or having facial hair. The two are apparently not connected. In the North, it is still technically illegal to go to the cinema on a Sunday. Etcetera.

http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/irelands-most-bizarre-laws/9455 For those and other weird laws here.

I agree there are crazy laws like this but in Saudi and Ethiopia there are crazy laws which effect people just for their gender or sexuality.

sullivlo

Would travelling to the UK for an abortion count as breaking the law? It's not illegal in the UK, so no law was broken.

Ordering abortion pills online for delivery to Northern Ireland? Not illegal in NI to take the pills (IIRC), so no law broken.

Driving from Newry to Carlingford before taking the pills? Law broken.

What about duty free goods? Go to the Canaries on your holidays. Cigarettes are cheaper in the supermarket than they are here. Stock up. Bring them home. Don't declare them, despite having 1000 and your allowance being 200. Going to America on holidays and buying a new iPhone and taking advantage of the exchange rate. Don't declare it coming back to Ireland. Buying some hash in Amsterdam and getting through Dublin airport without the sniffer dogs getting you - not illegal in Amsterdam, illegal in Ireland.

A 17 year old girl having sex with a 16 year old guy - statutory rape. Or vice versa. What constitutes sex - if it was just getting handsy does that count? Is it just penis-in-vagina or would anal sex count? Blurred lines. And I don't think there are many people that didn't have some sort of below the belt fumble before reaching the legal age limit.

There are many, many blurred lines. I'm sure I've broken them. I'm sure I've even broken laws that I wasn't aware of existing!

Permabear

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Permabear

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Tigger

livedadream wrote: »

Ireland has a jaywalking law that says that if you are within 50 metres of a pedestrian crossing you must use it to cross

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 (‘the Regulations’), wherein is stated:

46. (1) A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions in order to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians.
(2) A pedestrian facing a traffic light lamp which shows a red light shall not proceed beyond that light.
(3) A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where (…) [pedestrian lights] [have] been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the facing pedestrian lights is lit and emits a constant green light.

(…)

(7) On a roadway on which a (…) [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing.

do you mean its not a criminal offence?

1 dosent mention jaywalking
2 15 m

eviltwin

I've broken a few motoring ones, speeding, driving without a valid tax disc. Have broken the blasphemy one, taken drugs, drank in public, been naked in public - not sure if those last two are even laws. Some are silly like the ban on using abortion pills and the ban on homosexuality when that was the case. I reckon most of us have done something illegal at one point.

batistuta9

steddyeddy wrote: »

To Ethiopians homosexuality is pretty bad.

It depends on the punishment and/or the chances of getting caught is the answer

I am a natural-born badass and have broken laws on at least three occasions.

One time I was spending Christmas in London and I ate a mince pie.* I wasn't even scared, just wolfed it down without a second thought, because that's the kind of risky behaviour I thrive on.

Another time, I took the doormat out the back garden and gave it a good shake*, like the hardened and immoral criminal I am.

I've even been known to sing to myself in the street*, such is the epic nature of my badassery.



*All illegal acts as described by the Metropolitan Police Act 1839

Wanderer78

Candie wrote: »

I am a natural-born badass and have broken laws on at least three occasions.

couldnt live on the edge like that. id be a bag of nerves.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

couldnt live on the edge like that. id be a bag of nerves.

That's what sets me apart from most people. I don't give a second thought to the consequences of my law-breaking, I'm so tough and hardened.


#thuglife

Winterlong

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

givyjoe

Winterlong wrote: »

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

Adoption...

Widdershins

Winterlong wrote: »

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

but I thought there are cameras and sensors on traffic lights?

jmayo

endacl wrote: »

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Do you fook :eek:

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Come on do tell us all about that weekend in Atlantic City.

Winterlong wrote: »

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

You need to get some dirt on him.

I think I have broken motoring laws in nearly every country I have ever visited.
And I have twice been caught.
Also kudos to the much appreciated international concept of flashing drivers.

biko

I never killed a man that didn't deserve it.

Olishi4

steddyeddy wrote: »

If a law is what you consider to be morally wrong would you break it or abide by it?

I appreciate what is morally wrong is subjective.

There's a good David Bowie song called "God knows I'm good". Its from the perspective of a woman who in desperation shoplifts some food. She knows it's wrong but obviously feels that she has no other choice so she comforts her guilt by telling herself that "god knows I'm good".

If someone considers something morally wrong to them then they agree with the law that enforces it and would mostly prefer not to go against their own morals but it's possible that they would justify their actions in breaking it if they feel they had no other option.

It really depends on the persons own morals and the seriousness of the crime they commit or how they justify it to themselves.

Winterlong

Winterlong wrote: »

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

Snitches get stitches, that's what you should be telling him.

I used to be exactly the same and grassed my dad up whenever I got the chance, but still grew up into a total badass. There's hope for him yet!

feargale

Winterlong wrote: »

I worry about my son. He is 5, nearly 6, and is as far from a bad ass to make it embarrassing.

If I break a light he gives out to me. And tells his teacher.
He tells my wife if I look at my phone when sitting at traffic lights.
If my wife tells him not to eat cake, for example, and then behind her back I say ' come on, lets sneak some cake' ....he refuses AND grasses me in.

You think you have problems now? Wait until Stalin's friends take over. He will denounce you.

Outlaw Pete

At self service tills, I weigh grapes as potatoes.

Screw the man!

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

At self service tills, I weigh grapes as potatoes.

Screw the man!

I once saw a hand written and brightly colored-in sign in a Supervalu: "2 for the price of 3!".

How badass do you have to be to take up an offer like that?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Panthro

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Or tiny pencils from argos.

I suddenly feel like I haven't really lived!

Olishi4

Permabear wrote: »

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Then that person who chooses not to pay the tv licence does not agree morally with the current law. They don't feel that they are going against their own morals.

In the example I gave, the woman knew she did not morally agree with steeling but she felt that she had no other choice so she dealt with her guilt by saying to herself basically "I am a good person but this is something I have to do to get by".

Op's question was, "if a law you consider is morally wrong, would you break it?" not "would you break laws that you don't believe are morally wrong?"

Edit; looking back at the Op, I think he does mean "would you break laws that you believe are morally wrong". I think the answer is yes. A lot of people will break laws that they do not morally agree with. Also people will question and look to change those laws that they morally disagree with.

Sometimes like in my example, people will break laws if they agree with the law but feel they have no other choice.

Permabear

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Olishi4

Permabear wrote: »

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I didnt say it justifies it. I said the person will justify to themself based on their circumstances.

Also that is why motive is considered often when sentencing.

Permabear wrote: »

Sure ... of course. If a child were bleeding to death and I were trying to get him to a hospital, I would probably disregard the speed limit. But if, while speeding to get that child to the hospital, I collided with another vehicle and caused the deaths of three other children (for example) I would still be held culpable because I was legally in the wrong -- even if, in that instance, I felt that I was morally entitled (by virtue of trying to save a child's life) to ignore the law.

That is a risk that you would be willing to take based on your own reaction to events in an emergency.

I'm not saying any of these things are right are wrong. I'm saying that sometimes people do it. That's why I said it depends on the seriousness of the crime and the person's own morals of whether or not they will take the risk in breaking the law.

Ted111

Man made laws are supposed to flow from natural law (a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct)

A good example of moral law breakers would be the die Weiße Rose

jimgoose

"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass - a idiot."