Boilers: Grant Vortex vs Warmflow

Paremon

Looking to get an external condensing oil burner fitted to replace our existing internal old non-condensing boiler. To heat the house 26KW/88,000 btu minimum should do. I'm aware the gold standard on the Irish market seems to be the Grant Vortex. However I've also been advised that the Warmflow equivalent is the exact same (same internals) but much cheaper. Looking at quotes for each there's a difference of about €450 (not an insignificant sum).

The specific boilers I'm trying to compare are:
Grant Vortex 90/120 (26-36KW)
Warmflow Kabin Pak K120HE (26-33KW)

What are people's opinions of Grant Vs Warmflow in general as regards build, reliability, lifespan, servicing etc? And of those particular models above? Any help or advice from experience (installers and/or users) appreciated.

jimf

Paremon wrote: »

Looking to get an external condensing oil burner fitted to replace our existing internal old non-condensing boiler. To heat the house 26KW/88,000 btu minimum should do. I'm aware the gold standard on the Irish market seems to be the Grant Vortex. However I've also been advised that the Warmflow equivalent is the exact same (same internals) but much cheaper. Looking at quotes for each there's a difference of about €450 (not an insignificant sum).

The specific boilers I'm trying to compare are:
Grant Vortex 90/120 (26-36KW)
Warmflow Kabin Pak K120HE (26-33KW)

What are people's opinions of Grant Vs Warmflow in general as regards build, reliability, lifespan, servicing etc? And of those particular models above? Any help or advice from experience (installers and/or users) appreciated.

im afraid there is quite a difference in both boilers imho about the only thing they have in common is they both use riello burners and they condense
imho it has to be grant

agusta

Paremon wrote: »

Looking to get an external condensing oil burner fitted to replace our existing internal old non-condensing boiler. To heat the house 26KW/88,000 btu minimum should do. I'm aware the gold standard on the Irish market seems to be the Grant Vortex. However I've also been advised that the Warmflow equivalent is the exact same (same internals) but much cheaper. Looking at quotes for each there's a difference of about €450 (not an insignificant sum).

The specific boilers I'm trying to compare are:
Grant Vortex 90/120 (26-36KW)
Warmflow Kabin Pak K120HE (26-33KW)

What are people's opinions of Grant Vs Warmflow in general as regards build, reliability, lifespan, servicing etc? And of those particular models above? Any help or advice from experience (installers and/or users) appreciated.

Both boilers dont have the same internals.There not even close.It has to be grant.The grant euroflame is 100 euro approx cheaper than the vortex.Both the euroflame and vortex are the market leaders

Dtp1979

Totally agree with above. Plus, if it's been calculated that you need 26kw then make sure that is correct. It's borderline between a 50/90 and 90/120. Slightly under sizing a condensing is better than oversizing.
How big is the house and how many rads do you have.

Paremon

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Totally agree with above. Plus, if it's been calculated that you need 26kw then make sure that is correct. It's borderline between a 50/90 and 90/120. Slightly under sizing a condensing is better than oversizing.
How big is the house and how many rads do you have.

Thanks. So is the concensus that Grant is better than Warmflow based on anything in particular, eg spec, build quality, reliability, average lifespan, etc? I've also been recommended Firebird which i believe are an Irish company. How would they compare to Warmflow generally?

Re kw; I've had the rooms measured by an installer for a quote & they came back with 26-34kw & the above boiler examples. Same for N another installer/quoter. I then calculated myself for my own purposes each rooms' area (lxhxw), without taking into account wall depth, ceilings etc added it up & after conversion it came to 23kw which i took as the minimum to heat the house. As that's just a minimum & didn't include wall depth, ceilings etc & as there's very little wall insulation i added a bit to that & can only approximate it to around the 26kw mark. Is that a logical approach? What are the disadvantages of oversizing the boiler vs undersizing?

Re rads; 12 in total, non convecting, some double, some single. Intending to replace these with convecting rads with TRVs.

Will be insulating some parts of the house (attic, 1 cavity wall & some small internal areas).

DGOBS

for my money, it'd spend the extra on the vortex blue (blu female riello burner) lower NOX emissions and cleaner boiler

Dtp1979

Paremon wrote: »

Thanks. So is the concensus that Grant is better than Warmflow based on anything in particular, eg spec, build quality, reliability, average lifespan, etc? I've also been recommended Firebird which i believe are an Irish company. How would they compare to Warmflow generally?

Re kw; I've had the rooms measured by an installer for a quote & they came back with 26-34kw & the above boiler examples. Same for N another installer/quoter. I then calculated myself for my own purposes each rooms' area (lxhxw), without taking into account wall depth, ceilings etc added it up & after conversion it came to 23kw which i took as the minimum to heat the house. As that's just a minimum & didn't include wall depth, ceilings etc & as there's very little wall insulation i added a bit to that & can only approximate it to around the 26kw mark. Is that a logical approach? What are the disadvantages of oversizing the boiler vs undersizing?

Re rads; 12 in total, non convecting, some double, some single. Intending to replace these with convecting rads with TRVs.

Will be insulating some parts of the house (attic, 1 cavity wall & some small internal areas).

Oversizing a condensing boiler makes it less efficient yet some guys still oversize.
If you've 12 rads id nearly bet money that a 50/90 would be more than enough.
Btw, grant boilers are Irish too.

Dtp1979

DGOBS wrote: »

for my money, it'd spend the extra on the vortex blue (blu female riello burner) lower NOX emissions and cleaner boiler

I didn't realise they had released that yet. How long is it out? Any reports back on it?

DGOBS

Yeah it's out, same boiler, blue flame riello burner, very cool

Wearb

Blueflame is very interesting, but no efficiency increase. I don't see any advantage for the customer. How do we sell it to them.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Blueflame is very interesting, but no efficiency increase. I don't see any advantage for the customer. How do we sell it to them.

their not going to be that much more expensive grant models anyway

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

their not going to be that much more expensive grant models anyway

Do you know how much difference Jim? I suppose we will have to change FGA's to ones with nox/sox readings also.

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

Do you know how much difference Jim? I suppose we will have to change FGA's to ones with nox/sox readings also.

Think the v3 has nox
I rang grant today about training and they said the boilers weren't officially launched yet so no training available.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Do you know how much difference Jim? I suppose we will have to change FGA's to ones with nox/sox readings also.

I think about 3/4 hundred euro jury is still out on nox and sox needing to b recorded on fga print out its early days yet maybe tony has more up to date info

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Do you know how much difference Jim? I suppose we will have to change FGA's to ones with nox/sox readings also.

I think about 3/4 hundred euro jury is still out on nox and sox needing to b recorded on fga print out its early days yet maybe tony has more up to date info

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Do you know how much difference Jim? I suppose we will have to change FGA's to ones with nox/sox readings also.

I think about 3/4 hundred euro jury is still out on nox and sox needing to b recorded on fga print out its early days yet maybe tony has more up to date info

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

I think about 3/4 hundred euro jury is still out on nox and sox needing to b recorded on fga print out its early days yet maybe tony has more up to date info

Heard you the first time

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Heard you the first time

gremlins out last night or else scudo has my log in :p

DGOBS

You won't have to record Nox as of yet (it's an extra cell in your Anton V upgrade, but expensive cell €300 approx)

The sell for me is, a clean boiler, so this should improve long term efficiency IMHO.

(he doesn't need you login, he's still here )

Wearb

Hi Scudo 4 or Transit 1 or Berlingo 1. :pac::pac::pac::pac: Maybe even Hiace 1:D

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

Hi Scudo 4 or Transit 1 or Berlingo 1. :pac::pac::pac::pac: Maybe even Hiace 1:D

Go again

Dtp1979

DGOBS wrote: »

You won't have to record Nox as of yet (it's an extra cell in your Anton V upgrade, but expensive cell €300 approx)

The sell for me is, a clean boiler, so this should improve long term efficiency IMHO.

(he doesn't need you login, he's still here )

Tbf a when they're set up properly they're usually spotless the following year

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

Hi Scudo 4 or Transit 1 or Berlingo 1. :pac::pac::pac::pac: Maybe even Hiace 1:D

Go again

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Go again

Merc, Lexus, Audi, Wheelbarrow

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

Merc, Lexus, Audi, Wheelbarrow

Not even close

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Merc, Lexus, Audi, Wheelbarrow

clapped out panda

jimf

anyway on a more serious note no boiler sold in Ireland yet and yes they are available at approx. 400eu extra on top of standard vortex prices

maybe tony has a valid point re cleaner boiler but so does dtp when he says boiler set up properly in the first place are usually clean as well when we get to them

but we also have to take into account how many are not commissioned in the first place

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

but we also have to take into account how many are not commissioned in the first place

I wonder what blue flame will be like when not commisioned or set up arseways?

DGOBS

I would compare the build up in the boiler to that of a gas boiler, much less than an oil boiler.
But take the commissioning point too.

I wouldn't say they will be much more expensive for long (as not a whole lot more to the the burner to be honest)
Would say they will become the norm rapidly.

Dtp1979

DGOBS wrote: »

I would compare the build up in the boiler to that of a gas boiler, much less than an oil boiler.
But take the commissioning point too.

I wouldn't say they will be much more expensive for long (as not a whole lot more to the the burner to be honest)
Would say they will become the norm rapidly.

Modulating oil burners next

Tom44

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Go again

Tom 44 ?