Would you date a separated but not yet divorced woman?

sozbox

Despite the title, I'm not an asshole

Very early stages of dating a woman currently who has been married and is now separated though not yet divorced. No kids involved.

If I was answering this I'd say it shouldn't matter as long there's chemistry and compatibility etc but there's a small part of me that may want to do the whole marriage thing and having been there done that she's not aiming to head down that road again anytime soon.

I don't want to be unfair to her or myself but at the same time maybe it's just a stupid hang up I have and need to get over. Anyone experience this?

BetsyEllen

I'm a separated but not yet divorced woman and this is a question I worry about a lot...that I will miss out on a decent guy as my situation puts him off being with me!

So I'm very interested to see the replies here...

I guess OP one way to look at it is you will save a fortune on a big wedding day!! Haha.
But on a serious note I totally get why you would be a little hung up on this too. And I definitely don't think you're an asshole!

I don't think you're being unfair - I have to be honest, if I had never been married and met a guy that was, it may have put me off him.

OldRio

I courted one and following her divorce we married.


And are still married and in love, 25 years later.

sozbox

I get it's totally my issue, too many Disney movies growing up I think, so it's great to hear success stories like the above.

Are you back on the dating scene Betsy? Have you noticed any difference?

BetsyEllen

I did get into another brief relationship after my marriage split but the other guy was also separated so it wasn't an issue for either of us.

I've been on a couple of dates and both guys were very cool about the whole thing. Said it wouldn't bother them etc.
However it's easy to say that on just a date, I'm not sure how it would work out longer down the line!

I have a bit of a hang up over it now if I'm honest, I feel a bit reluctant to tell guys I meet straight away as I fear they will run a mile

wally79

sozbox wrote: »

Despite the title, I'm not an asshole

Very early stages of dating a woman currently who has been married and is now separated though not yet divorced. No kids involved.

If I was answering this I'd say it shouldn't matter as long there's chemistry and compatibility etc but there's a small part of me that may want to do the whole marriage thing and having been there done that she's not aiming to head down that road again anytime soon.

I don't want to be unfair to her or myself but at the same time maybe it's just a stupid hang up I have and need to get over. Anyone experience this?

I don't get why it makes a difference whether she is separated or divorced if "she's not aiming to head down that road again anytime soon"

sozbox

wally79 wrote: »

I don't get why it makes a difference whether she is separated or divorced if "she's not aiming to head down that road again anytime soon"

That's an easy one, for me, separated but not yet divorced is likely to mean it's a recent separation which may mean there's still baggage or chance of reconciliation

wijam

If you knew the relationship was dead in the water and was heading for a divorce, I'd date a married woman.

The issue here in Ireland is the wait of 4 years for a divorce (correct me if I'm wrong on that), which is a ridiculous amount of time to have to wait, especially in your case when there's no kids involved. Of course, if you want to get married yourself down the line and she does not, that could be a deal breaker, depending upon how much you want it.

I'm single, never married, so can't comment on the married part, but if I was going one with someone, then moved in with them, down the line I'd like to be married myself, probably another sheep following the herd

sozbox

Yeah the wait is beyond ridiculous, think it may be 2 years but still.

Speedwell

If you would date a woman whose husband died last year, then you can date a woman who voluntarily separated from her husband with no intent of reconciliation and every intent to pursue a divorce.

In the US, it took me the better part of a year to divorce my abusive absentee first husband because he'd gone off to parts unknown and I had to "serve" the divorce paperwork in the newspaper where he was last known to reside, and I had to save money for a few months to afford to pay the lawyer and file the necessary documentation. I wasn't on the "rebound" (I'd been wanting to get rid of the abuser for a long time) and I was very honest with my dates about what happened. It was sort of a good test to see what their attitudes were toward men who would hit women, come to think of it.

VisibleGorilla

Depends on how long after the separation and the reasons for it.

BetsyEllen

sozbox wrote: »

That's an easy one, for me, separated but not yet divorced is likely to mean it's a recent separation which may mean there's still baggage or chance of reconciliation

I split with my husband in 2013, haven't seen him since.
We can't divorce for a while yet - my understanding is you have to prove you've been living apart for 4 years.
We can only prove that from early 2014 (when we finally got all the names on bills adjusted etc) so we will likely divorce in 2018.

There is zero baggage for me and ZERO chance of reconciliation so I wouldn't automatically think that someone who is separated is still not over their ex.

Ending a marriage is a big deal; for a couple to end it would say to me that it really was 100% over with no going back.

sozbox

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I split with my husband in 2013, haven't seen him since.
We can't divorce for a while yet - my understanding is you have to prove you've been living apart for 4 years.
We can only prove that from early 2014 (when we finally got all the names on bills adjusted etc) so we will likely divorce in 2018.

There is zero baggage for me and ZERO chance of reconciliation so I wouldn't automatically think that someone who is separated is still not over their ex.

Ending a marriage is a big deal; for a couple to end it would say to me that it really was 100% over with no going back.

Wow, 4 years of PROVING you're living apart, what the **** is wrong with this country.

It's not an automatic assumption, more me sizing up the likelihood. I've tried to keep our meetings fun so far which means avoiding the whole separation thing but I think I'll ask about it next time.

BetsyEllen

sozbox wrote: »

Wow, 4 years of PROVING you're living apart, what the **** is wrong with this country.

It's not an automatic assumption, more me sizing up the likelihood. I've tried to keep our meetings fun so far which means avoiding the whole separation thing but I think I'll ask about it next time.

I think that's how it works anyway, I haven't properly looked into the ins and outs of it yet.
But from what I've read, you have to both agree you've been separated for 5 years, with proof of living apart for 4. I'm open to correction on that though!

Also something else to consider is that it can be very expensive to divorce.
Some couples might hate each other with a passion and would like nothing more than to divorce but can't due to funds.

Dial Hard

sozbox wrote:

Yeah the wait is beyond ridiculous, think it may be 2 years but still.

It's four out of five years at an absolute minimum, but can take far, far longer so thinking separated but not yet divorced = recently separated is fallacy.

For what it's worth, I'm 34 and divorced and while it hasn't caused any issues for me *getting* dates, it has caused issues further down the line. A lot of men don't have an issue with it til it gets to exclusivity time, and then you can see them start to think again. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Dial Hard

BetsyEllen wrote:

I think that's how it works anyway, I haven't properly looked into the ins and outs of it yet. But from what I've read, you have to both agree you've been separated for 5 years, with proof of living apart for 4. I'm open to correction on that though!

You don't have to have written proof of living apart if both parties are in agreement but the judge can and often will look for it, particularly if it's an acrimonious divorce. The date of you informing Revenue you wished to be separately assessed again is also seen as a good "line in the sand".

sozbox

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I think that's how it works anyway, I haven't properly looked into the ins and outs of it yet.
But from what I've read, you have to both agree you've been separated for 5 years, with proof of living apart for 4. I'm open to correction on that though!

Also something else to consider is that it can be very expensive to divorce.
Some couples might hate each other with a passion and would like nothing more than to divorce but can't due to funds.

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's four out of five years at an absolute minimum, but can take far, far longer so thinking separated but not yet divorced = recently separated is fallacy.

For what it's worth, I'm 34 and divorced and while it hasn't caused any issues for me *getting* dates, it has caused issues further down the line. A lot of men don't have an issue with it til it gets to exclusivity time, and then you can see them start to think again. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Thanks for that, I didn't realise it was that long, that's really unfair on people :mad:

So you're finding that men will say it's grand until it's crunch time? I'd rather just be upfront and say it's an issue if it's an issue.

Rhaegal

33 year old single male

i'll happily date anyone who is separated

pm me

Mr McBoatface

There is the issue of debt from a married couple that are now separated. Loans and mortgages are jointly owned and can't be offloaded just because the marriage has ended, there is joint responsibility.

I've a female friend going out with a really nice guy, they recently had a child together but can't get a mortgage as he is co-owner on a home in negative equity and is liable for the repayments. His ex lives there and is making no payments on the mortgage. Divorce hasn't gone through.

After the divorce he may have to declare bankruptcy to clear his debt but again this affect the couple's ability to get a mortgage. If they where to marry before bankruptcy his debt may become hers. It's a mess.

It's all very well if you're just dating but what happens if the dating developes into something more.

The comparison made earlier to dating a widowed women or man isn't for the most part valid in terms of financial liability and debt. The mandatory mortgage protection insurance usually cover the most significant debt most couples build up.

It may not be romantic but it's a practical fact that has to be dealt with at some stage. It's not true for every separated couple but for some it is.

I'm a widower myself with children and have dated women who where not willing to develope a relationship because they wanted to have their own family with a man who had none, they didn't want the extra responsibility. I understand that completely. Everybody has their "ideal" and it's far better for all concerned to bring a relationship to a halt before it begins if thoses "ideals" aren't met.

sozbox

jobyrne30 wrote: »

There is the issue of debt from a married couple that are now separated. Loans and mortgages are jointly owned and can't be offloaded just because the marriage has ended, there is joint responsibility.

I've a female friend going out with a really nice guy, they recently had a child together but can't get a mortgage as he is co-owner on a home in negative equity and is liable for the repayments. His ex lives there and is making no payments on the mortgage. Divorce hasn't gone through.

After the divorce he may have to declare bankruptcy to clear his debt but again this affect the couple's ability to get a mortgage. If they where to marry before bankruptcy his debt may become hers. It's a mess.

It's all very well if you're just dating but what happens if the dating developes into something more.

The comparison made earlier to dating a widowed women or man isn't for the most part valid in terms of financial liability and debt. The mandatory mortgage protection insurance usually cover the most significant debt most couples build up.

It may not be romantic but it's a practical fact that has to be dealt with at some stage. It's not true for every separated couple but for some it is.

I'm a widower myself with children and have dated women who where not willing to develope a relationship because they wanted to have their own family with a man who had none, they didn't want the extra responsibility. I understand that completely. Everybody has their "ideal" and it's far better for all concerned to bring a relationship to a halt before it begins if thoses "ideals" aren't met.

AH I didn't even think about debt!:eek:

Mr McBoatface

sozbox wrote: »

AH I didn't even think about debt!:eek:

Most people don't, but it's an issue especially for 30 something's in negative equity.

You might develope a relationship have kids as my friend only to find your families future is snookered by a past relationship and debt.

My aunt in her late 50s is getting married to a man she dated for 25 years. He had a home with his ex wife who left him after 3 years of marriage. She moved out he lived there and paid the mortgage. They never got divorced. 3 years ago the ex demanded a divorce and her share of the home. She got half, her name was never taken off deeds or the mortgage.

Unfinished business can come back to bite you years later !

bmwguy

Yeah, no problem doing that. I did have reservations about the unemployed thread, that would be difficult, and a small reservation about a lady with children.

But seperated/divorced, no issue for me

Dial Hard

sozbox wrote:

So you're finding that men will say it's grand until it's crunch time? I'd rather just be upfront and say it's an issue if it's an issue.

I think they genuinely think they're grand with it until things start to look like they might be getting serious and that's whern thoughts of what will my family say and maybe I do want a church/big wedding after all start to come in. And maybe they just want their first time up the aisle to be with someone who's sharing that experience and tbh, I can absolutely understand why they'd feel like that. I think things like that will change as divorce becomes more commonplace but at the moment, I'm pretty much the first generation to be divorced at an age where many people are only starting to think about marriage.

But there is a huge amount of misinformation and misconceptions about divorce out there. For example, there's absolutely no entitlement to "half" for anyone in Irish divorce law. Likewise, if a house in negative equity has to be sold, the woman is just as liable for the shortfall as the man. Similarly there's no "second bite of the cherry" once assets are disposed of. For example, as part of my divorce terms I agreed to an adjustment order in the amount of 1c on my ex's (very lucrative) pension. I can't decide in a few year's time "Actually, I fancy that money now after all" and go after it. The only amounts that can be revisited are spousal and child maintenance orders and they can be revised down as well as up.

It can be annoying. I've had people say to me "Jeez, he probably got taken to the cleaners" or "You must be set up for life" because there's a perception out there that divorce = cha-ching! for women. I do just be like "I wish!"

AgileMyth

I have been for six months. Its not been an issue.

sozbox

Dial Hard wrote: »

...maybe they just want their first time up the aisle to be with someone who's sharing that experience..

That's my issue exactly.

Thanks for the insights, learning a lot about divorce here too!

Dial Hard

sozbox wrote:

That's my issue exactly.

And that's absolutely your prerogative. But in that case, you should probably end it now. I know you said it's early days but if this is genuinely a deal-breaker for you then there's no point in either if you getting invested. And it would be downright unfair on her if this were to turn into a "well you're grand til someone I can actually see myself with comes along" thing for you. I've had first-hand experience of that, unfortunately.

sozbox

Dial Hard wrote: »

And that's absolutely your prerogative. But in that case, you should probably end it now. I know you said it's early days but if this is genuinely a deal-breaker for you then there's no point in either if you getting invested. And it would be downright unfair on her if this were to turn into a "well you're grand til someone I can actually see myself with comes along" thing for you. I've had first-hand experience of that, unfortunately.

Exactly, I don't want to be that guy because it's totally unfair to her. I'm trying to figure out quickly if it's really a deal breaker for me or if it's more to do with my own hang ups.

Not meeting again for a week so I've time to think.

sozbox

AgileMyth wrote: »

I have been for six months. Its not been an issue.

Do you want to get married someday?

fryup

no kids involved?

then go for it

Kings Inns or bust

With the divorce laws being what they are in this country, an argument I dont want op get into or express an opinion on, divorce takes a very long time, even longer considering the 'useful' period of a marital relationship. It's not unusual that you may end up dating someone who is technically still married.

Chromosphere

Given the state of Irish divorce laws, with the 4-year rule, it's likely that a lot of people are effectively divorced and just counting down the clock.

If she's definitely split-up, no baggage, legal paperwork done etc etc.. that's very likely the case.

From what I gather, typically divorcing couples here will draw up a legal, mutually agreed separation agreement and that forms the basis of the divorce, which is pretty much just filed based on that agreement.

It's only a major issue where there's some kind of acrimonious situation or where there's a really complicated issue around custody or some kind of property / financial dispute.

thesultan

Going out with a separated woman the last four years. The only thing I would have liked a church wedding.

Speedwell

thesultan wrote: »

Going out with a separated woman the last four years. The only thing I would have liked a church wedding.

By any chance would this be the same Church that made it hard for her to get a divorce?

sozbox

No interest in a church wedding so that didn't even cross my mind. We can be so backward at times.

Kings Inns or bust

Speedwell wrote: »

By any chance would this be the same Church that made it hard for her to get a divorce?

Same State that allows the same Church so unless one is moving too...

thesultan

Same church. RC

Charizard

I dont see it as a issue, my sister married a guy recently who shes been with 12 years he was separated a year when they met. I feel once a marriage is over, why should people wait till divorce comes through

LegacyUser

OP, I am currently in a relationship with a separated but not yet divorced man. We have made all sorts of plans for the future. At the very beginning he was very upfront about his situation and also about not being sure if he would ever marry again which was fair enough and didn't bother me. That has subsequently changed to him talking about us hopefully marrying in the future.
I'm not saying that your girlfriend will change her mind, just that it's a possibility if she finds herself in love again. Or you might change yours about wanting to get married but I wouldn't write off someone I had a connection with and attraction to because of it unless getting married was the be-all and end-all to you or would create a barrier for you to, for example, having a family.

DeLady

Its actually 5yrs in total, you have to be separated for at least 1yr and then wait another 4 before you can start divorce proceedings, totally ridiculous.

H3llR4iser

I don't see the issue to be honest, although this comes from somebody who has no prospective view on the "happy ever after" - actually the idea of marriage and, the Divines forbid, children sends a double-barreled chill down my spine

However, in reality one can never tell - in the past I did come darn close to...settling down (cold sweat just typing this!), and to be honest at my specific age (mid-30s) it is relatively easy to meet women who are on a "quest for a ring / children ASAP"; In that regard, a separated woman will have, besides the obvious legally binding time constraints, also the maturity and knowledge that marriage/long term isn't all the Disney fairytale that's spoon fed on us since childhood.

In all fairness, if the basic idea is to be looking for a more established relationship in the future, I would say that a woman being separated / waiting for divorce is of no concern in the worst case, an actual advantage in the best scenario...

Dial Hard

DeLady wrote:

Its actually 5yrs in total, you have to be separated for at least 1yr and then wait another 4 before you can start divorce proceedings, totally ridiculous.

That's not true. You simply have to be separated four out of five years and there's no requirement to have obtained a judicial separation first.

Outlaw Pete

Sure, if she'd have me.

BetsyEllen

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I don't see the issue to be honest, although this comes from somebody who has no prospective view on the "happy ever after" - actually the idea of marriage and, the Divines forbid, children sends a double-barreled chill down my spine

However, in reality one can never tell - in the past I did come darn close to...settling down (cold sweat just typing this!), and to be honest at my specific age (mid-30s) it is relatively easy to meet women who are on a "quest for a ring / children ASAP"; In that regard, a separated woman will have, besides the obvious legally binding time constraints, also the maturity and knowledge that marriage/long term isn't all the Disney fairytale that's spoon fed on us since childhood.

In all fairness, if the basic idea is to be looking for a more established relationship in the future, I would say that a woman being separated / waiting for divorce is of no concern in the worst case, an actual advantage in the best scenario...

You make a great point.
I'm 29 and having already been married and now separated, I have a VERY different view on marriage to all of my friends.

The next guy I meet, I will be making it very clear that I have no wishes for marriage again and also I'm pretty sure I don't want children - if I hadn't been through what I have though, I would probably be skipping about dreaming of white dresses and bouquets like other girls my age.

The problem is though, being single at this age, most guys must assume I am desperate for a baby etc!

mzungu

It wouldn't be an issue for me anyways. If the previous relationship is over and done with, then there are no problems.

H3llR4iser

BetsyEllen wrote: »

You make a great point.
I'm 29 and having already been married and now separated, I have a VERY different view on marriage to all of my friends.

The next guy I meet, I will be making it very clear that I have no wishes for marriage again and also I'm pretty sure I don't want children - if I hadn't been through what I have though, I would probably be skipping about dreaming of white dresses and bouquets like other girls my age.

The problem is though, being single at this age, most guys must assume I am desperate for a baby etc!

Exactly what I meant; Maybe 29 is still a bit young for being "desperate" about having babies and such, although I DID encounter the Neanderthal "mother before 30 or you're a failure" mentality a few times. In the end, it really rests in your field - it's up to you to make things clear.