Why do the Gardaí not use eirecode ?

barrymanilow

My sister has recently moved into a house in the countryside where she will be alone for a couple of nights a week . The house is pretty isolated and about 10K from the nearest town .

Naturally we are concerned for her safety when she is so distant from the nearest community , so I called the nearest Garda Station to
A Check that the number I had found for them Online worked
B Check that it was the better number to dial in an emergency rather than 999
C Check that she could give the Eirecode of the house so that the Gardaí could find it .

The Garda I spoke with told me that they don't use Eirecodes and that she would have to give old fashioned directions over the phone .

My sister isn't exactly the coolest under pressure and I can't see her doing a good job of explaining the complicated navigation of about a dozen or so turns on country lanes and identical looking Bohereens in the dark . All the while there could possibly be a Gang of Raiders trying to kick in the door .

I can put an Eirecode into google and get a crosshairs over a house on a map . It seems to make sense that using Eirecode would reduce response times and simplify calling the Gardai for someone in a remote area with no house number or street address .

Am I missing something here ? Why dont the Gardaí use it ?

bravestar

barrymanilow wrote: »

My sister has recently moved into a house in the countryside where she will be alone for a couple of nights a week . The house is pretty isolated and about 10K from the nearest town .

Naturally we are concerned for her safety when she is so distant from the nearest community , so I called the nearest Garda Station to
A Check that the number I had found for them Online worked
B Check that it was the better number to dial in an emergency rather than 999
C Check that she could give the Eirecode of the house so that the Gardaí could find it .

The Garda I spoke with told me that they don't use Eirecodes and that she would have to give old fashioned directions over the phone .

My sister isn't exactly the coolest under pressure and I can't see her doing a good job of explaining the complicated navigation of about a dozen or so turns on country lanes and identical looking Bohereens in the dark . All the while there could possibly be a Gang of Raiders trying to kick in the door .

I can put an Eirecode into google and get a crosshairs over a house on a map . It seems to make sense that using Eirecode would reduce response times and simplify calling the Gardai for someone in a remote area with no house number or street address .

Am I missing something here ? Why dont the Gardaí use it ?

Provide Gardai on the ground with the relevant technology to enable it's use and I'm sure they would use it if it made houses easier to find.

Red Kev

bravestar wrote: »

Provide Gardai on the ground with the relevant technology to enable it's use and I'm sure they would use it if it made houses easier to find.

Yep. And there's no point giving them a smartphone to google it or use the Eircode website as they possibly won't get reception when they need it most.

They need something else. Totally infuriating that the new system is used by next to nobody.

bravestar

The simple answer is that technology does not need to be relied upon. Have enough gardai that they can actually be out and about on a daily basis, increasing their local knowledge of an area, and the problem is solved. Up until quite recently most active gardai would know their district like the back of their hand.

Atlantic Dawn

The budgeting and provision of technology means they work harder not smarter.

Indricotherium

I live in North Kildare.

My Eircode starts with w23.

That covers all of Leixlip, Maynooth, and Smellbridge. It actually gives you less information than giving the address.

If Eircode had been designed in such a way that it would give you more information than an address, when you don't have access to a computer it might have a better uptake.

Unfortunately, it was designed to maximise profits in selling eircodes to businesses who what to spam people via the post, and not for any other type of use.

TheChizler

It's the 999 or 112 call taker that takes the Eircode currently, not the Garda station.

Indricotherium

barrymanilow wrote: »

I can put an Eirecode into google and get a crosshairs over a house on a map . It seems to make sense that using Eirecode would reduce response times and simplify calling the Gardai for someone in a remote area with no house number or street address .

Am I missing something here ? Why dont the Gardaí use it ?

Yes you are.

You live in a time when you can speak the vaguest of descriptions of things to your phone and it will find what you mean and a map to it. This technology is only getting better.

Post codes are a Victorian answer to a problem that doesn't exist anymore. Scanners can read handwriting and sort post automatically, computers can find what you mean from vaguest of descriptions.

I'd hazard a guess that the envelope a scanner can't read will also have an illegible post code on it.

The whole eircode mess is just a way to monetise spam post.

Alun

Indricotherium wrote: »

I live in North Kildare.

My Eircode starts with w23.

That covers all of Leixlip, Maynooth, and Smellbridge. It actually gives you less information than giving the address.

So what? Memorize the next 4 digits and it'll pinpoint your house. It's not exactly difficult, I had mine memorized within a few minutes of getting it.

Indricotherium

Alun wrote: »

So what? Memorize the next 4 digits and it'll pinpoint your house. It's not exactly difficult, I had mine memorized within a few minutes of getting it.

But you already know where your own house is surely?

The 4 character string after the w23 is meaningless without a computer.

For example, what are the eircodes for the houses either side of yours?

Your Eircode gives you less information than telling someone the street you live on, unless they have a computer to look it up.

I imagine if you were to tell me your eircode I couldn't even work out you lived in Bray from it without a computer.

Del2005

TheChizler wrote: »

It's the 999 or 112 call taker that takes the Eircode currently, not the Garda station.

They then give the emergency services the directions down multiple roads that don't have names, not a very efficient use of resources for something that cost €30m+.

The whole Eircode was a huge waste of money, especially letting a company that said it didn't want it or plan on using it be part of the design process and therefore made it useless for their competition, and I'm sure it'll be the next tribunal that will cost another fortune and find noone responsible.

nhunter100

barrymanilow wrote:

My sister has recently moved into a house in the countryside where she will be alone for a couple of nights a week . The house is pretty isolated and about 10K from the nearest town .

barrymanilow wrote:

Naturally we are concerned for her safety when she is so distant from the nearest community , so I called the nearest Garda Station to A Check that the number I had found for them Online worked B Check that it was the better number to dial in an emergency rather than 999 C Check that she could give the Eirecode of the house so that the Gardaí could find it .

Tell your sister to get a big dog. I live in a rural area and expecting the Guards to arrive within minutes of a phone call is naive at best. They're stretched as it is to cover the towns they are based in.

TheChizler

Del2005 wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

It's the 999 or 112 call taker that takes the Eircode currently, not the Garda station.

They then give the emergency services the directions down multiple roads that don't have names, not a very efficient use of resources for something that cost 30m+.

Baby steps. Public services are generally very hesitant to upgrading technology. I may have imagined it but I think I heard that the successor to PULSE is being developed, it probably makes sense to wait for that than pay an IT firm 6-7 figures to incorporate it into a system that's about to become redundant.

TheChizler

Del2005 wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

It's the 999 or 112 call taker that takes the Eircode currently, not the Garda station.

They then give the emergency services the directions down multiple roads that don't have names, not a very efficient use of resources for something that cost 30m+.

Baby steps. Public services are generally very hesitant to upgrading technology. I may have imagined it but I think I heard that the successor to PULSE is being developed, it probably makes sense to wait for that than pay an IT firm 6-7 figures to incorporate it into a system that's about to become redundant.

Alun

Indricotherium wrote: »

But you already know where your own house is surely?

Yes, of course. It does mean that if anybody asks for my eircode I can give it to them, just like I could give them my UK postcode when I lived there, or my Dutch one when I lived there. Honestly, it's no big deal, and people in other countries have been using them for decades without all the agonizing and hand-wringing that's accompanied their introduction here.

The 4 character string after the w23 is meaningless without a computer.

As is the first part of many post codes including the Dutch ones mentioned above.

For example, what are the eircodes for the houses either side of yours?

I have no idea, why should I be bothered?

Your Eircode gives you less information than telling someone the street you live on, unless they have a computer to look it up.

I imagine if you were to tell me your eircode I couldn't even work out you lived in Bray from it without a computer.

I, and most people these days, have a "computer" in their pocket.

beveragelady

barrymanilow wrote: »

My sister has recently moved into a house in the countryside where she will be alone for a couple of nights a week . The house is pretty isolated and about 10K from the nearest town .

Naturally we are concerned for her safety when she is so distant from the nearest community , so I called the nearest Garda Station to
A Check that the number I had found for them Online worked
B Check that it was the better number to dial in an emergency rather than 999
C Check that she could give the Eirecode of the house so that the Gardaí could find it .

The Garda I spoke with told me that they don't use Eirecodes and that she would have to give old fashioned directions over the phone .

My sister isn't exactly the coolest under pressure and I can't see her doing a good job of explaining the complicated navigation of about a dozen or so turns on country lanes and identical looking Bohereens in the dark . All the while there could possibly be a Gang of Raiders trying to kick in the door .

I can put an Eirecode into google and get a crosshairs over a house on a map . It seems to make sense that using Eirecode would reduce response times and simplify calling the Gardai for someone in a remote area with no house number or street address .

Am I missing something here ? Why dont the Gardaí use it ?

Living in the countryside does not mean that 'gangs of raiders' will be hammering on your door every night. When you hear people talking about rural crime they are usually referring to statistics that include theft of farm machinery and animals. Violent crime is rare.
The way you write about your sister and your insistence on being the boss in this situation (seriously, you're making phonecalls on her behalf?) is the problem here, not a perceived threat of Mad Max lawlessness.
Do you by any chance disapprove of some element of her chosen lifestyle, is that why you're so keen to create a problem?

Edit... And another thing: The notion that if somebody is alone they are automatically in danger is almost superstitious. Give the lady a bit of credit, and for heaven's sake give her some independence.

We don't use it as we don't have the technology in the station or the car to use it. Can't use the free access as it takes the whole PULSE system as one user rather than each PULSE machine.

Indricotherium

Alun wrote: »

?

I, and most people these days, have a "computer" in their pocket.

Suit yourself.

In answer to the op though, the reason is because it is a proprietary code system that gives less information than any other part of an address. It is designed to be unreadable without paying for access to the eircode database.

TheChizler

Indricotherium wrote: »

Alun wrote: »

?

I, and most people these days, have a "computer" in their pocket.

Suit yourself.

In answer to the op though, the reason is because it is a proprietary code system that gives less information than any other part of an address. It is designed to be unreadable without paying for access to the eircode database.

That doesn't answer the OP. There's no technical reason why the Gardai can't licence the database and integrate it, just as the 999/ambulance service has.

Gardai don't have a computer in their cars that can sort out an address with an eircode and direct Gardai there.

Gardai don't have computers in their cars full stop.

TheChizler

bubblypop wrote: »

Gardai don't have a computer in their cars that can sort out an address with an eircode and direct Gardai there.

Gardai don't have computers in their cars full stop.

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pulse-smartphone-2813576-Jun2016/

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pulse-smartphone-2813576-Jun2016/

Lol
Don't hold your breath!

degsie

TheChizler wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.a-pulse-smartphone-2813576-Jun2016/

Dependant on internet access I presume? Not guaranteed in rural areas.

TheRiverman

A computer or some other device that is connected to the internet is required to access Eircodes,so Gardai or anyone else for that matter need an internet connection in their car.Unfortunately,despite advances in technology mobile internet is still crap in this country.4G my a..e.

TheChizler

degsie wrote: »

Dependant on internet access I presume? Not guaranteed in rural areas.

Not necessarily, the code/location part of the database would be less than 25 MB, could easily fit on a device. In all likelihood it would end up being an implementation that needs Internet access but because it wouldn't work 5% of the time isn't a reason to not do it at all.

riffmongous

Why is not possible to use Eircode offline? I have no idea how it works, haven't been back to Ireland since it was implemented, but that it's possible to have a system that wouldn't be possible to have offline on a smart phone, even if just for a limited region, sounds very strange to me

Del2005

riffmongous wrote: »

Why is not possible to use Eircode offline? I have no idea how it works, haven't been back to Ireland since it was implemented, but that it's possible to have a system that wouldn't be possible to have offline on a smart phone, even if just for a limited region, sounds very strange to me

You need a licence to access the database so even if the Gardaí had a computer it their car they'd have to pay to use it. The great thing about Eircode is that even the emergency services have to pay to access it. Then there's the problem that not all incidents that the emergency services respond to happen at a letter box, which is all Eircode can locate.

I've used eircode a load of times and never had to pay.

I find that area of things being discussed a slight bit confusing?


As an aside, I like eircode. I am also happy that they have the 'directions' for google maps to help you get coordinates (albeit, i'd prefer it if coordinates were supplied on the eircode page itself).

FishOnABike

Deleted User wrote: »

I've used eircode a load of times and never had to pay.

I find that area of things being discussed a slight bit confusing?


As an aside, I like eircode. I am also happy that they have the 'directions' for google maps to help you get coordinates (albeit, i'd prefer it if coordinates were supplied on the eircode page itself).

You'll find there's a limit on the number of eircodes you can look up in any one day.

This might be ok for an occasional private user (might not be enough to check the eircodes for your Christmas card list though - so better start checking them bit by bit in advance).

Commercial use would require a license and the technology rolled out across the organisation to use eircodes. It takes a lot more effort to implement than an individual looking up an occasional address / eircode.

TheChizler

The licence thing isn't really an Eircode criticism specifically as all of the alternatives have licencing models for their commercial/organisational use.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pulse-smartphone-2813576-Jun2016/

I'm in the job 9 years and long before I joined they were talking about putting computers in the cars. This was around the time ESAT Digifone were around and had a deal to use the Garda masts. Here we are in 2016 and the only "computers" in cars are members own mobile phones. I won't hold my breath. If we ever buy in car computers they'll probably end up being incompatible with the crap patrol cars we buy at the same time.

BaronVon

Firearms applications now have an Eircode space, so maybe there'll be brought in slowly:rolleyes:

Water John

As someone said yesterday, eircode only relates to a post box/house. Half of Gardai business, disturbance of the peace etc, is in the public domain. So we will have them using one system for houses and another for the road accident.
That's the nonsense of eircode, along with its randomness.

TheChizler

Water John wrote: »

As someone said yesterday, eircode only relates to a post box/house. Half of Gardai business, disturbance of the peace etc, is in the public domain. So we will have them using one system for houses and another for the road accident.
That's the nonsense of eircode, along with its randomness.

And in the public domain you'd still need a computer to generate a code for that location. Might as well use e112 for that as it's coming in anyway .

Water John

What's e112 in this context?

TheChizler

Water John wrote: »

What's e112 in this context?

Location enhanced version of 112/999. Operator transmits the info they have about your location to the emergency call operator. Not as accurate as GNSS yet but it's heading that way.

GoProGaming

TheChizler wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

As someone said yesterday, eircode only relates to a post box/house. Half of Gardai business, disturbance of the peace etc, is in the public domain. So we will have them using one system for houses and another for the road accident.
That's the nonsense of eircode, along with its randomness.

And in the public domain you'd still need a computer to generate a code for that location. Might as well use e112 for that as it's coming in anyway .

Will only show what cell mast your pinging off, not very accurate in ireland as they are so far apart. As it stands we can tell if your ringing from clare and you tell the operator you require help in limerick for example

TheChizler

I did say that it was coming in future, not that the accuracy was already here.

Water John

Plenty options out there. The Irish National Grid was set up by Ordinance Survey I presume?

Graces7

beveragelady wrote: »

Living in the countryside does not mean that 'gangs of raiders' will be hammering on your door every night. When you hear people talking about rural crime they are usually referring to statistics that include theft of farm machinery and animals. Violent crime is rare.
The way you write about your sister and your insistence on being the boss in this situation (seriously, you're making phonecalls on her behalf?) is the problem here, not a perceived threat of Mad Max lawlessness.
Do you by any chance disapprove of some element of her chosen lifestyle, is that why you're so keen to create a problem?

Edit... And another thing: The notion that if somebody is alone they are automatically in danger is almost superstitious. Give the lady a bit of credit, and for heaven's sake give her some independence.

Ah be fair, please! I live in a very remote house, so much so that when I needed an ambulance before eirecode, they got lost on the top road.. When I called 999 last week, they asked for my eireocode which I could not find.

One of the first sensible things you need to do when moving to a remote house is to make sure that at need you CAN get emergency help.

I am moving soon to another remote area and will do so immediately simply for consideration for the emergency services.

As someone has said the 999 operator will ask for it and will direct to the address. It was a terrible thing this last week to be trying to explain where I was to someone in Dublin.

Little CuChulainn

Graces7 wrote: »

Ah be fair, please! I live in a very remote house, so much so that when I needed an ambulance before eirecode, they got lost on the top road.. When I called 999 last week, they asked for my eireocode which I could not find.

One of the first sensible things you need to do when moving to a remote house is to make sure that at need you CAN get emergency help.

I am moving soon to another remote area and will do so immediately simply for consideration for the emergency services.

As someone has said the 999 operator will ask for it and will direct to the address. It was a terrible thing this last week to be trying to explain where I was to someone in Dublin.

It never ceased to amaze me how many people in rural areas could not give simple accurate directions to their own house. Some form of location system is definitely needed across the emergency services.

Reati

bravestar wrote: »

Provide Gardai on the ground with the relevant technology to enable it's use and I'm sure they would use it if it made houses easier to find.

Seem plenty of Gardai with their iphones out in town. Guess Google Maps is an ask to much on them in a real emergency.

Little CuChulainn

Reati wrote: »

Seem plenty of Gardai with their iphones out in town. Guess Google Maps is an ask to much on them in a real emergency.

It is. But that doesn't stop us from using them when we can. Should we bring our own sticks instead of batons? Maybe drive our own cars around with some blue lights stuck on.

Tell me, what happens when the Google Maps location doesn't line up with the eircode location or when we get closer to the location and lose service? There's a reason proper standardised equipment should be provided.

Reati

Reati wrote: »

Seem plenty of Gardai with their iphones out in town. Guess Google Maps is an ask to much on them in a real emergency.

As already stated we do use or own PERSONAL phones to assist us in doing the job, be it looking for a location of a call or for finding info for somebody. We don't get any allowance for paying our bills or topping up so why should we be obliged to use them?

Graces7

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It never ceased to amaze me how many people in rural areas could not give simple accurate directions to their own house. Some form of location system is definitely needed across the emergency services.

Oh I can and do give very accurate directions to here! But google and other maps that the services use misinterpet eg field access dirt tracks as lanes.. so they are talking about the third lane when there is really only one.

With the ambulance two years ago they were on the right road but panicked as it was "in the forestry" and turned back.. I had to redirect them to a local tavern them start again..

Directions are in the ear of the listener..

ED E

GoProGaming wrote: »

Will only show what cell mast your pinging off, not very accurate in ireland as they are so far apart. As it stands we can tell if your ringing from clare and you tell the operator you require help in limerick for example

Nope.

E112 or its real name, AML, is deployed as part of Google Play Services (part of the OS) and can boot up all aspects of the location service. That means its cells + wifi hits + GPS/GLONASS/Baidu + AGPS. On a newer phone they'll have you down to a confident 1-3m radius by the end of a 60 second call.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Nope.

E112 or its real name, AML, is deployed as part of Google Play Services (part of the OS) and can boot up all aspects of the location service. That means its cells + wifi hits + GPS/GLONASS/Baidu + AGPS. On a newer phone they'll have you down to a confident 1-3m radius by the end of a 60 second call.

If that were the case we'd be prosecuting a lot more people for bogey calls.

GreenFolder2

GoProGaming wrote: »

Will only show what cell mast your pinging off, not very accurate in ireland as they are so far apart. As it stands we can tell if your ringing from clare and you tell the operator you require help in limerick for example

Not very accurate outside urban areas anywhere actually.

Kevin3

No, AML (advanced mobile location) is technology which not used in Ireland yet but will hopefully be in the future. It's only being used in the UK and Estonia at the moment.

barrymanilow

beveragelady wrote: »

Living in the countryside does not mean that 'gangs of raiders' will be hammering on your door every night. When you hear people talking about rural crime they are usually referring to statistics that include theft of farm machinery and animals. Violent crime is rare.
The way you write about your sister and your insistence on being the boss in this situation (seriously, you're making phonecalls on her behalf?) is the problem here, not a perceived threat of Mad Max lawlessness.
Do you by any chance disapprove of some element of her chosen lifestyle, is that why you're so keen to create a problem?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/priest-tied-up-and-locked-in-room-as-raiders-ransacked-his-home-35418372.html

"Deputy Collins said: "The community is in shock over this. What it shows is that while crime stats go up and down, crime never goes away. It also reminds us about the vulnerability of people living alone.""

Indricotherium

barrymanilow wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/priest-tied-up-and-locked-in-room-as-raiders-ransacked-his-home-35418372.html

"Deputy Collins said: "The community is in shock over this. What it shows is that while crime stats go up and down, crime never goes away. It also reminds us about the vulnerability of people living alone.""

How would an eircode have helped in this situation?