To Help or Not To Help

off.the.walls

Last night on my way home with my girlfriend we were stopped at some traffic lights. She said to me "I think that guy over there is dead" looking to my left I saw a guy slumped sitting against the wall. I rolled down the window and shouted out to him, no response, I shouted louder and nothing.

After that I pulled the car up onto the grass verge and went over to see if he was okay, I gave his leg a shake and he was not moving, at this stage i was looking to see if he was breathing and to be honest he looked dead. So I have his leg a harder shove and shouted a little louder. To note, he was in shorts and his legs were freezing, this added to me thinking there was no blood pumping in this guy.

Once he didn't respond I decided it was time to call an ambulance, the phone operator said that someone was on their way and that I should try and lay the guy out flat. I handed the phone to my girlfriend and proceeded to try and get the guy flat onto his back, as I was doing this the fire brigade arrived and as I tried to move him away from the wall to lay him down he woke up.

This is when things took an interesting turn, in a very, "junkie" / "high" voice he says ""what the F**k are ya touching me for"". Then proceeded to stand up and walk towards me, the fire brigade guys then took over.

This was on a busy main road, it is a road known for people taking / selling drugs.

So after hearing the story the question is, should we bother to help these people if they are so bad that they appear dead on the side of a road, or should we just leave them there to enjoy their high?

At the end of it two fire brigade units had shown up and an ambulance, all because this guy decided to get high and pass out on the side of the road. I feel like I did the right thing by helping this guy, but I feel angry that so many resources were devoted to helping this guy when it wasn't an accident.

off.the.walls

off.the.walls wrote: »

Last night on my way home with my girlfriend we were stopped at some traffic lights. She said to me "I think that guy over there is dead" looking to my left I saw a guy slumped sitting against the wall. I rolled down the window and shouted out to him, no response, I shouted louder and nothing.

After that I pulled the car up onto the grass verge and went over to see if he was okay, I gave his leg a shake and he was not moving, at this stage i was looking to see if he was breathing and to be honest he looked dead. So I have his leg a harder shove and shouted a little louder. To note, he was in shorts and his legs were freezing, this added to me thinking there was no blood pumping in this guy.

Once he didn't respond I decided it was time to call an ambulance, the phone operator said that someone was on their way and that I should try and lay the guy out flat. I handed the phone to my girlfriend and proceeded to try and get the guy flat onto his back, as I was doing this the fire brigade arrived and as I tried to move him away from the wall to lay him down he woke up.

This is when things took an interesting turn, in a very, "junkie" / "high" voice he says ""what the F**k are ya touching me for"". Then proceeded to stand up and walk towards me, the fire brigade guys then took over.

This was on a busy main road, it is a road known for people taking / selling drugs.

So after hearing the story the question is, should we bother to help these people if they are so bad that they appear dead on the side of a road, or should we just leave them there to enjoy their high?

At the end of it two fire brigade units had shown up and an ambulance, all because this guy decided to get high and pass out on the side of the road. I feel like I did the right thing by helping this guy, but I feel angry that so many resources were devoted to helping this guy when it wasn't an accident.

You followed your conscience and did the right thing, the fact that the right thing wasn't wanted has nothing to do with you.

I'm sure the services are used to this, but for every so many people that are ignored, I'm sure there is a genuine case saved by the actions of people like you, and that's what it's all about in the end.

Lollipops23

I'd take a false alarm 100 times over a genuine case being missed because passers by assumed they were a junkie.

Robsweezie

Knew he was a junkie before the end of the story tbh

Good on you for doing what you could.

brightspark

While you said on this occasion they appear to be a junkie it's important to be aware the diabetics with hypoglycaemia can appear "drunken too"

http://www.ems1.com/medical-clinical/articles/1081443-Drunk-versus-diabetes-How-can-you-tell/

In other words call the professionals.

You should also always make sure of your own safety, no point in becoming another casualty.

livedadream

yeah ive been the genuine case i passed outside river island once and apparently a few people walked past before an ol' fella stopped, it was two other young lads walking past who though the ol'fella rubbing my stomach and head while i was unconcious was a bit off so called an ambulance.

he legged it then and the two young lads stayed with me.
creepy stuff. but again i was out of it so didnt care.

always help, even that junkie is someones kid.

valoren

Bias would play a big part.

I recall a social experiment where a man would appear to faint/collapse on a busy street.

Where this was done when he was well dressed, groomed and wore clean clothes then bystanders would invariably help without question.
Where he was unshaven and wore dirty clothes typical of the stereotypical homeless man then people were far more reluctant to assist.

Considering it was a street infamous for drug taking, how was he dressed?

Your Face

He probably wasn't loved enough as a child.
Hugs not drugs.

off.the.walls

valoren wrote: »

Bias would play a big part.

I recall a social experiment where a man would appear to faint/collapse on a busy street.

Where this was done when he was well dressed, groomed and wore clean clothes then bystanders would invariably help without question.
Where he was unshaven and wore dirty clothes typical of the stereotypical homeless man then people were far more reluctant to assist.

Considering it was a street infamous for drug taking, how was he dressed?

His clothes were quite dirty. An extremely stained jumper and battered shorts.

Also one thing I would like to point out is that I placed "junkie" in quotes as I do not know this guys story, I'm not accusing him of being a drug taker it could of been any other cause and the way he spoke was due to grogginess after passing out. It was simply used as a way to describe how the person spoke. So if anyone feels i've said it to insult / label this man it was not used in that context.

Alf Stewart.

That is the question.

razorblunt

Yes I would. Have been in this situation before, a drunk guy (in the homeless, alcoholic sense) was passed out having fallen off the bench and hitting his face).
I stopped the car and called the ambulance, I couldn't touch him though as there was blood everywhere.
Had to shake him with my foot and he didn't appear to be breathing either but eventually someone spotted bubble in the blood around his nose indicating he was breathing.

It was across the way from a hospital too, the ambulance lads said it was their second call out to him at that bench that week.

_feedback_

Watched a documentary series on Irish paramedics recently and quite a few of them told of stories of heroin addicts.

The most common one being they are called out to a heroin overdose and the person is losing their ability to breath and about to die. They have a drug which reverses the effects and can instantly wake them up and get them going.

Majority of junkies lose the plot with them for "wrecking their buzz". Sad really

I'm usually amazed by the people who don't help. Once in London a while back, a very intoxicated man took a bad fall down the stairs to the underground. Nobody moved to him at all and I actually had to push my way through the crowd to help the guy to get to his feet, who, once stood up, looked at me, told me to "f*ck off" and waddled, albeit with a rather painful looking limp, away.

off.the.walls

off.the.walls wrote: »

His clothes were quite dirty. An extremely stained jumper and battered shorts.

Also one thing I would like to point out is that I placed "junkie" in quotes as I do not know this guys story, I'm not accusing him of being a drug taker it could of been any other cause and the way he spoke was due to grogginess after passing out. It was simply used as a way to describe how the person spoke. So if anyone feels i've said it to insult / label this man it was not used in that context.

And of course someones life isn't worthless if they are an addict either.

Widdershins

I'd say it's common for people to get 'burned' for helping people in one way or another. I think you did your bit and maybe his attitude would have been different if it hadn't been affected by whatever chemicals in his system. I used to bend over backwards to help people and I am the opposite now.

hairyslug

3 times I think now that I have called the ambulance or Gardai for an OD, some lad getting knocked out and a girl being held by the throat by her partner against a fence. For the OD I got the bollox tore off me by her sister for calling an ambulance, said it was none of my business, lad who got knocked out came to and told me to **** off, he was fine and for the girl, her partner did a runner and by the time the Gardai had showed up she denied everything.

A friend got assaulted only recently, was in a coma for a while and wasn't looking good, if it wasn't for some randomer stepping in and calling an ambulance, he wouldn't have made it, i still don't think the family have been able to track the guy down but if it wasn't for him he would be dead.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm usually amazed by the people who don't help. Once in London a while back, a very intoxicated man took a bad fall down the stairs to the underground. Nobody moved to him at all and I actually had to push my way through the crowd to help the guy to get to his feet, who, once stood up, looked at me, told me to "f*ck off" and waddled, albeit with a rather painful looking limp, away.

I was advised to ignore anything like this in London. Up to and including old people lying on the street. Apparently it can be part of a ploy to mug people, or else, people can just turn. I know it's sad and I'd probably automatically help if it looked genuine but I think they had a point.

Boom_Bap

I think it depends on the circumstance on whether I'd stop and help out. I would normally get a feeling that something is off and intervene rather than helping in every situation. So I try to act on that feeling.

Knex*

You did what we all like to think that we would do, but couldn't guarantee that we would do.

Fair play, OP.

mynamejeff

off.the.walls wrote: »

Last night on my way home with my girlfriend we were stopped at some traffic lights. She said to me "I think that guy over there is dead" looking to my left I saw a guy slumped sitting against the wall. I rolled down the window and shouted out to him, no response, I shouted louder and nothing.

After that I pulled the car up onto the grass verge and went over to see if he was okay, I gave his leg a shake and he was not moving, at this stage i was looking to see if he was breathing and to be honest he looked dead. So I have his leg a harder shove and shouted a little louder. To note, he was in shorts and his legs were freezing, this added to me thinking there was no blood pumping in this guy.

Once he didn't respond I decided it was time to call an ambulance, the phone operator said that someone was on their way and that I should try and lay the guy out flat. I handed the phone to my girlfriend and proceeded to try and get the guy flat onto his back, as I was doing this the fire brigade arrived and as I tried to move him away from the wall to lay him down he woke up.

This is when things took an interesting turn, in a very, "junkie" / "high" voice he says ""what the F**k are ya touching me for"". Then proceeded to stand up and walk towards me, the fire brigade guys then took over.

This was on a busy main road, it is a road known for people taking / selling drugs.

So after hearing the story the question is, should we bother to help these people if they are so bad that they appear dead on the side of a road, or should we just leave them there to enjoy their high?

At the end of it two fire brigade units had shown up and an ambulance, all because this guy decided to get high and pass out on the side of the road. I feel like I did the right thing by helping this guy, but I feel angry that so many resources were devoted to helping this guy when it wasn't an accident.

you did the right thing unfortunately in the world we live in it was a waste of time yours , fire and ambulance and properly gardai too

lawlolawl

I'll probably catch hell for this but, in my personal life at least, if I didn't happen to know the person then I wouldn't help them.

I'll help them in work because I have to. In the course of my job I encounter people in various "vulnerable" states fairly regularly and in 100% of cases it goes the same way. You try to help them yourself and you get told to **** off, you get threats, you get abuse or they go for you. You ring the police/ambulance and they inevitably know the person in question because they have already dealt with them regularly. They get the same abuse and I've seen a few instances where they were actually attacked.

In the vast majority of cases, normal people don't publicly end up in such a state that they need someone else to ring the police or ambulance for them. It being genuine is the extreme exception to the general rule of it being some scummer full of drink and/or gear.

beks101

Widdershins wrote: »

I was advised to ignore anything like this in London. Up to and including old people lying on the street. Apparently it can be part of a ploy to mug people, or else, people can just turn. I know it's sad and I'd probably automatically help if it looked genuine but I think they had a point.

Yeah London is a special case alright. You get into a zone when you're using public transport or navigating the busy streets where you won't acknowledge or interact with strangers in the same way you would elsewhere because it's such a clusterfcuk of chaos and busyness. Passing strangers would scowl more at you than smile. And there's an added layer of fear and paranoia about strangers because of stories like this.

Saying that, I've often been at a bus stop or waiting for a friend outside a cafe and seen a random passerby stop and interact with a homeless person, maybe buy them a cup of coffee and a sandwich. I've seen that a few times actually. Somehow that sort of sporadic kindness can hit you harder in somewhere as manic and impersonal as London than elsewhere.

Doryhank

My Dad fell onto train tracks and no one bothered to help him, his foot was shattered, thankfully he wasn't run over.

Widdershins

Doryhank wrote: »

My Dad fell onto train tracks and no one bothered to help him, his foot was shattered, thankfully he wasn't run over.

God

XR3i

off.the.walls wrote: »

Last night on my way home with my girlfriend we were stopped at some traffic lights. She said to me "I think that guy over there is dead" looking to my left I saw a guy slumped sitting against the wall. I rolled down the window and shouted out to him, no response, I shouted louder and nothing.

After that I pulled the car up onto the grass verge and went over to see if he was okay, I gave his leg a shake and he was not moving, at this stage i was looking to see if he was breathing and to be honest he looked dead. So I have his leg a harder shove and shouted a little louder. To note, he was in shorts and his legs were freezing, this added to me thinking there was no blood pumping in this guy.

Once he didn't respond I decided it was time to call an ambulance, the phone operator said that someone was on their way and that I should try and lay the guy out flat. I handed the phone to my girlfriend and proceeded to try and get the guy flat onto his back, as I was doing this the fire brigade arrived and as I tried to move him away from the wall to lay him down he woke up.

This is when things took an interesting turn, in a very, "junkie" / "high" voice he says ""what the F**k are ya touching me for"". Then proceeded to stand up and walk towards me, the fire brigade guys then took over.

This was on a busy main road, it is a road known for people taking / selling drugs.

So after hearing the story the question is, should we bother to help these people if they are so bad that they appear dead on the side of a road, or should we just leave them there to enjoy their high?

At the end of it two fire brigade units had shown up and an ambulance, all because this guy decided to get high and pass out on the side of the road. I feel like I did the right thing by helping this guy, but I feel angry that so many resources were devoted to helping this guy when it wasn't an accident.

tldr

keith16

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I'd take a false alarm 100 times over a genuine case being missed because passers by assumed they were a junkie.

A false alarm that ends up with a dirty syringe in your face?

BrokenArrows

You did the right thing by calling for an ambulance, but WTF was it with two fire brigades and an ambulance. Talk about a waste of money. Its one guy potentially dead, the ambulance was on its way so why did the two fire brigades show up?

hairyprincess

You did the right thing.

I stopped to help someone three years ago. I half knew him so I think that is probably why I stopped. I had my five year old child with me at the time so really chances are I wouldn't have stopped if I didn't know him. But I would have called the guards to check on him.

While I was sitting there with him I tried to flag down cars to stop and ring an ambulance as I didn't have my phone on me and I was shocked at how many cars drove on but I guess that's a sign of the times we are living in. Anyway turns out I did the right thing, the man was very ill. It took the ambulance a while to stabilise him before they could bring him to the hospital.

A poor homeless guy threw himself on the hood of my car a year or so ago while I was stopped at lights in a fairly bad neighbourhood. I didn't think about it, just out of the car and checked he was okay. He got up and started shouting at me so I jumped back in the car and called the cops, for two reasons. Firstly I didn't want him claiming I'd run him over, and secondly I was afraid he'd cause an accident with his flailing around and needed medical attention anyway. So I parked up until they came and they took him to hospital and I went to the station until they checked out the CCTV at the lights and confirmed I'd been stopped when he jumped on the car.

I shouldn't have gotten out of the car, but I was out before I thought about it. I should have parked up nearby and called the cops, while keeping an eye on him, but sometimes you react first and think later. I'll be more careful next time.

whiskeyman

BrokenArrows wrote: »

You did the right thing by calling for an ambulance, but WTF was it with two fire brigades and an ambulance. Talk about a waste of money. Its one guy potentially dead, the ambulance was on its way so why did the two fire brigades show up?

Fire Brigades here are all trained paramedics as far as I'm aware (no where else in the world is this the case I remember reading!), so you will still sometimes get Fire Bridges if they are the nearest.

And if there's any hint of spinal injury, they'll also be called due to spinal board / transfer of the patient. This could of been the case.

Mint Aero

why was a fire brigade need? two? let alone one!

XR3i

but i did not shoot the deputy

DEFTLEFTHAND

You did do the right thing, don't question yourself.

dresden8

My brother suffered from epilepsy.

He'd pass out on the street and people would step over him thinking he was a junkie or a drunk. Even had his wallet stolen once.

Good on you OP. Sometimes we do the right thing for the wrong people.

hairyprincess

dresden8 wrote: »

Sometimes we do the right thing for the wrong people.

I like this. It's going to get used. And often. It's so bloody true

Vic_08

I wonder if the streetview car lads stopped:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3630249,-6.2592199,3a,75y,115.99h,81.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sO7NtlYBzV3lPJhQ0fqOjNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Junkie or not, nobody deserves to die on the street like an animal. You did the right thing and I'm glad everyone was ok

Snugglebunnies

The thing that would worry me about stopping in a situation like this is that scumbags have been known tricks like this to rob people who stop to help. Definitely would call an ambulance though.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

The thing that would worry me about stopping in a situation like this is that scumbags have been known tricks like this to rob people who stop to help. Definitely would call an ambulance though.

Not too long ago I saw a man panned out face down on an alley leading off a very busy street. I looked at him for ages and he wasn't moving but I was too frightened to go near him. I called an ambulance and the conversation went something similar to

Operator: is the man breathing?
Me: I don't know, I'm not going near him, he's a junkie.
O: I need you to check if he's breathing
Me: I'm on my own. I'm not going near him.
O: madam, I need you to check if he's breathing

While we're having this arguement two other junkies come and kind of stand him up. That clears up the breathing mystery but he was in bad shape. I say he's breathing but he can't stand and doesn't seem to be fully conscious.

O: can you approach and ask if they need assistance?
M: are you for real. Either send the ambulance or don't.
O: I am trying to help, I need you to co operate.
M: fine, but if anything happens to me, you better send help straight away and none of this rigmarole
O: madam do not approach if you are putting yourself at risk

I told him next time I won't be calling any ambulance. I'm not getting involved. Someone's passed out, send help. Don't be sending people over on deserted alleys to see if they're breathing or waiting to mug you

Dyr

Years ago coming home dead late, guy flat out on the pavement. I go over help him up, he's dead pished, face busted from where he hit the ground after tripping over a support for some construction fencing, his leg is also fooked.

I get him up he cant stand so is leaning against me and the fencing for support. He ain't gonna make it anywhere. Garda station is just across the road so i prop the guy up and I head over to them, they have no interest other than take my details, they say they'll ring an ambulance. 30-40 minutes later of propping this prick up in the rain there's no sign of an ambulance. The drunken prick wants to know why the ambulance isn't here, starts and starts getting stroppy so I let him go and he goes sliding down the fence . As it happens my old man is looking out the window wondering why im not home yet and sees the two figures beside the fence and reckons im one, he comes out and I get him to go home and ring an ambulance. Ambulance shows up, drunken prick gets stroppy with the crew and they tell him to get in or fook off. He gets in.

I head over to the garda station, turns out they didnt bother their hole ringing the ambulance because they're useless bastards who couldn't be arsed

Few weeks later drunken prick shows up at my door on crutches, all pally. Wants to take me out for a pint, I decline. Wants to give me a few bob for doing him a good turn. I decline. I know what he's at. I ask him if he's putting a claim in over the fencing. He is. I tell him he can forget about me going witness. Goes off in huff. Turns out the gardai gave him my details. Had his solictor ringing me a few times after that too.



Moral of story, stay the f**k away from the gardai unless you want grief

fatknacker

livedadream wrote: »

yeah ive been the genuine case i passed outside river island once and apparently a few people walked past before an ol' fella stopped, it was two other young lads walking past who though the ol'fella rubbing my stomach and head while i was unconcious was a bit off so called an ambulance.

he legged it then and the two young lads stayed with me.
creepy stuff. but again i was out of it so didnt care.

always help, even that junkie is someones kid.

Incidentally the OP's story reminded me of a time also outside River Island where I saw a man slumping over onto the ground. I walked over to help him up and see if he was ok.
His eyeballs rolled open and "tanks luv have ya gor any spare change..." Came out of his mouth.

I kinda felt like a dope then and let him slump back onto the ground as I sheepishly walked off.

Vic_08

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Not too long ago I saw a man panned out face down on an alley leading off a very busy street. I looked at him for ages and he wasn't moving but I was too frightened to go near him. I called an ambulance and the conversation went something similar to

Operator: is the man breathing?
Me: I don't know, I'm not going near him, he's a junkie.
O: I need you to check if he's breathing
Me: I'm on my own. I'm not going near him.
O: madam, I need you to check if he's breathing

While we're having this arguement two other junkies come and kind of stand him up. That clears up the breathing mystery but he was in bad shape. I say he's breathing but he can't stand and doesn't seem to be fully conscious.

O: can you approach and ask if they need assistance?
M: are you for real. Either send the ambulance or don't.
O: I am trying to help, I need you to co operate.
M: fine, but if anything happens to me, you better send help straight away and none of this rigmarole
O: madam do not approach if you are putting yourself at risk

I told him next time I won't be calling any ambulance. I'm not getting involved. Someone's passed out, send help. Don't be sending people over on deserted alleys to see if they're breathing or waiting to mug you

End Call Button.

999 operators will always ask these questions to better understand the situation and provide callers with as much help as possible to resolve an emergency. They cannot compel you to do anything, if you do not want to approach the person there is nothing to say you have to. At least not in Ireland that is, some countries have good samaritan laws that make it a crime not to act.