sexual assault or apprentice prank?

HS3

VonLuck wrote: »

It's only sexual assault if the person themselves sees it as sexual assault. For all we know they both might get up to pranks like this the whole time. Would you call it sexual assault if a guy pulled down one of his mates trousers for a laugh? Of course not, as long as the "victim" is in on this kind of behaviour and doesn't see it as sexual assault. It's not black and white.

I don't see how if it was a girl how it would be different. The scenario would be a bunch of women with another woman in the chair who thought a male stripper was giving her a rub down. Again, as long as she's in on these kind of jokes and she doesn't see it as sexual assault, it's not sexual assault.

Going by your pants pulling example.... pulling down pants for a laugh...is it sexual assault ? Debatable depending on whether the guy thought it was funny, or whether he felt grossly uncomfortable and laughed so as not to be a stick in the mud. I can't think of a situation where a man pulling down anyone elses trousers for a laugh would be acceptable behaviour though? Is it? I think any guy I know would go berserk.

If it was a woman and the audience were female as was the boss it would be equally as wrong as it is in this video. Sitting on his lap or innocently touching his face or something might come across as a laugh. But touching his crotch. No. If I was blindfolded expecting a stripper only to discover it was my female boss touching my crotch, I would go ballistic !

Wigglepuppy

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Here we go again, minimising it agian.

If this was your sister I doubt you'd be saying "ah sure its only the lower end of the scale".

Minimising it? They were critical of it.

Surely minimising it would be saying "Ah sher it's nothing, he needs to get over it"?

VonLuck

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Sexual assault in English law can be as widely construed as putting a pair of shoes on a person's foot.

So yes, of course it can. Things that can technically constitute sexual assault happen all the time, but they're taken as jokes, as they were intended.

In the OP, though, the boss's hand lingered for far too long on the other's dick. He even went back for more. That was uncomfortable to watch.

Okay, well I must admit I didn't sit through the whole video, I saw him sit on the guys lap a bit and thought it was very cringeworthy. He may have lingered a bit long in the crotch area, but as I said before, the only person that can make the call on wheter it was sexual assault is the guy in the chair.

HS3 wrote: »

Going by your pants pulling example.... pulling down pants for a laugh...is it sexual assault ? Debatable depending on whether the guy thought it was funny, or whether he felt grossly uncomfortable and laughed so as not to be a stick in the mud. I can't think of a situation where a man pulling down anyone elses trousers for a laugh would be acceptable behaviour though? Is it? I think any guy I know would go berserk.

If it was a woman and the audience were female as was the boss it would be equally as wrong as it is in this video. Sitting on his lap or innocently touching his face or something might come across as a laugh. But touching his crotch. No. If I was blindfolded expecting a stripper only to discover it was my female boss touching my crotch, I would go ballistic !

I completely understand what you're saying, but my whole point is that no one can judge it to be sexual assault unless you're the person on the receiving end.

getzls

Very good. No sexual assault by myour reasoning.
Once my Wife dressed up as a Strippergram for a guys birthday party at his/ her work.
Not sure if she touched him up.

Arcade_Tryer

Deleted User wrote: »

But he certainly did not consent to being groped. Incidentally, it could be argued that he did not even consent to being groped by a female stripper.

But he did consent. He consented to everything that happened for the simple fact that he sat there and allowed it all to happen without the slightest hint of complaint. The only salient detail is that the performance was carried out by a man and not a woman as presumed. And that is the guy in the chair's fault for agreeing to wear a blindfold.

He could have stopped the lap dance at any moment. But he didn't.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

+1

No straight man wants another fella touching his crotch, regardless of the sexuality of the guy doing it.

In fact the guy doing it should be prepared for a few thumps for his trouble.

That's not necessarily true.

Wigglepuppy

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Is there sound on it? I'm not hearing a damn thing anyway.

Pity it wasn't in the States, as he'd be looking at a nice some of cash if it was but here, not so much. Also, while he might have seen the joke at the time, now that his embarrassment has gone viral, he might not as much. Hard to know.

His only hope now is that his parents work for KPMG, as that's the only video I've ever known to disappear off the face of the Earth after going viral.

Took place in Britain I think.

Anyway, just got to watch it now - found it quite disturbing. Definitely consider it to be sexual assault (the guy was led to believe it was a woman - he consented to a striptease from a woman). What a weirdo - and those who supported him.

Arcade_Tryer

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Took place in Britain I think.

Anyway, just got to watch it now - found it quite disturbing. Definitely consider it to be sexual assault (the guy was led to believe it was a woman - he consented to a striptease from a woman, dunno if he consented to being groped by a woman though; certainly not by a man). What a weirdo - and those who supported him.

Logic fail. He obviously consented to being groped by a woman given that he thought he was being given a lap dance by a woman, not a man. And because he quite obviously does not attempt to stop the performance at any time.

The only argument is about the legality or morality of the deception. But wearing the blindfold was a stupid move. And the responsibility lies with the guy for agreeing to wear it imo.

tomwaterford

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Logic fail. He obviously consented to being groped by a woman given that he thought he was being given a lap dance by a woman, not a man. And because he quite obviously does not attempt to stop the performance at any time.

The only argument is about the legality or morality of the deception. But wearing the blindfold was a stupid move. And the responsibility lies with the guy for agreeing to wear it imo.

What exactly do people think geos on in a lapdance
I only ever had like one and a shared one on a stag party before. ....and no groping of any sort happens

Buy why in name of Jaysus would someone go in for a blindfolded one??

JayRoc

tomwaterford wrote: »

Or to local shop for a long stand :pac:

And c'mere, grab us a left-handed hammer while you're there, good man

Robsweezie

Ironically I started a thread on touching knobs recently...

Wigglepuppy

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Logic fail. He obviously consented to being groped by a woman given that he thought he was being given a lap dance by a woman, not a man. And because he quite obviously does not attempt to stop the performance at any time.

True. Although the "Logic fail" is unnecessary - edited accordingly.

I don't know much about striptease and didn't know groping was a given.

Wearing a blindfold was a strange decision all right - still sexual assault though. He could never have known it was gonna be a man, least of all his boss.

Arcade_Tryer

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Logic fail. He obviously consented to being groped by a woman given that he thought he was being given a lap dance by a woman, not a man. And because he quite obviously does not attempt to stop the performance at any time.

The only argument is about the legality or morality of the deception. But wearing the blindfold was a stupid move. And the responsibility lies with the guy for agreeing to wear it imo.

The responsibility for wearing a blindfold. But again, not responsibility for the act of groping.

The person who is responsible for the groping is the person who did it. Sexual assault is of course possible in cases where the person does not protest or is not even aware that they are being sexually assaulted, including cases where they are aware of the act but not the nature of it (R v Williams, the singing lessons case), and cases where the assailant is impersonating another.

HS3

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Logic fail. He obviously consented to being groped by a woman given that he thought he was being given a lap dance by a woman, not a man. And because he quite obviously does not attempt to stop the performance at any time.

The only argument is about the legality or morality of the deception. But wearing the blindfold was a stupid move. And the responsibility lies with the guy for agreeing to wear it imo.

Just because some one goes so far with a joke (though tbf we don't actually know what he consented to or wanted to happen) but say he was ok for a woman to do it, say that was part of his consent. What he consented to and what he got were two very different things. Even if the guy wasn't his boss, if it was a friend, having him tied, blindfolded so a friend could touch him up, all in the full knowledge the guy wouldn't like it and would highly object if not blindfolded is so far removed from acceptable ! Guys should not have to laugh a long with things like this if it makes them uncomfortable. By the end when the blindfold came off he shoved him off and that laugh does not look genuine!

Samaris

I had a semi-friend who was a bit inclined to pull **** like this on newer males in our wider friendship circle. Now, he was gay, but that wasn't really relevant to it (except that it added more stress on guys who didn't want to appear homophobic by objecting). The guys tended to laugh it off rather than risk pissing off the group by attacking someone on the inside. I disliked this intensely because I felt it creepy and wrong. He would also do it to girls at times, but he was more cautious about it because females were more likely to tell him to sod off.

As a passing note, I'll say in his defence that I never got the impression that he was trying to hurt or upset anyone; rather he had a rather crude sense of humour and didn't quite get where "joke" ended and "inappropriate" began.

However, that's not really important, what's important is that the guys he was "teasing" always laughed it off, often uncomfortably. Of the wider group, no-one really wanted to interfere, again because "it's just a laugh" and no-one wanted to be that person to spoilsport. Yeah, we were young and a bit dumb. And it's quite true that if he had been more focussed on young girls, there would have been more of an outcry because females are now allowed to say "no, I don't want to be touched like that", due to decades of campaigning and complaining and fighting for it. Males haven't had that long experience of that fight for bodily autonomy - when the cause is "a joke" and it's not like one can have a sharply defined group to argue against (men and women, gay and straight, black and white, whatever and something else). "What do we want? Bodily autonomy! Who are we fighting? Er...some other socio-economically similar men and some women that can only be defined by their actions!" doesn't have much of a ring to it.

It's understandable how it's not been dealt with yet, but it's not right, and honestly, it needs talking about and arguing about. And there will be people who say "these guys can't take a joke, don't they have anything else to worry about?" Same people said it when women gave out too, and they should be ignored for the idiots they are.

As a note, I avoided him and haven't spoken to him in years now because I never liked that aspect to him.

Robsweezie

You should only really attempt something like this if you know the persons comfort level with you from previous experience with them. They took a gamble with this prank, it could've gone horribly wrong with his reaction , the apprentice could've punched him for it.

Don't know if anyone likes being felt up though.

Tasden

I'm just baffled as to why he agreed to wearing a blindfold when it says he was expecting a "stripper". Surely the whole idea of a stripper is that you watch them take their clothes off? Even with a lap dance, the contact is obviously the main aspect but isn't watching the dancer the idea? That's not laying blame with him for actually wearing it btw, just something that confused me.
Add to that the man is actually dressed up, despite the blindfold, which is even more confusing. The whole thing is just bizarre.

Robsweezie

Tasden wrote:

I'm just baffled as to why he agreed to wearing a blindfold when it says he was expecting a "stripper". Surely the whole idea of a stripper is that you watch them take their clothes off? Even with a lap dance, the contact is obviously the main aspect but isn't watching the dancer the idea? That's not laying blame with him for actually wearing it btw, just something that confused me. Add to that the man is actually dressed up, despite the blindfold, which is even more confusing. The whole thing is just bizarre.

I think the blindfolded added to the "teasing" element of the striptease, as well as the obvious trickery.

Tasden

Robsweezie wrote: »

I think the blindfolded added to the "teasing" element of the striptease, as well as the obvious trickery.

Makes sense
My mind was just thinking in terms of "if I was getting a strip tease I'd want to be able to see it" and I couldn't figure out where the blindfold came into it!

Galwayguy35

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

That's not necessarily true.

OK, when would it happen where a straight guy would be fine with it?

Olishi4

Robsweezie wrote: »

I think the blindfolded added to the "teasing" element of the striptease, as well as the obvious trickery.

And peer pressure

Robsweezie

Boss is lucky the lad reacted how he did, he might not be so lucky with the next "victim", if there is to be another.

Widdershins

Over the line.

Robsweezie

Widdershins wrote:

Over the line.

Would you go down the legal route?

rochey84

I'm a gay man (not that it should make a difference) and if my boss (male or female) did this to me I would defo report it as sexual assault, the dude literally rubs his hand up and down his cock a couple of times, that is completely out of line for a workplace, unless of course your workplace is the set of a porno

Widdershins

Robsweezie wrote: »

Would you go down the legal route?

I don't know. It's one thing watching it and a different thing being the one in the chair.

Amanda.ie

I would report it. it's not funny and the boss is a weirdo to dress up like that, those other idiots laughing are just as bad.
The lad is probably mortified about the whole ordeal. I don't like pranks, esp not in the work place.