AMD Zen Discussion Thread

K.O.Kiki

Homelander

K.O.Kiki

Rejoice, B450/X470 will get Zen 3 after all!

BloodBath

Good, no excuse for at least the last one not supporting it.

Praise the PC tech content creation community for kicking up a fuss about it.

H3llR4iser

It was really a matter of trying to avoid the mess with the B450/X470 updates - how many users, even here, experienced a lot of issues with hacked together bios and shaky support? Heck even Jayz2Cent was caught in a bugged BIOS situation in one of his clips.

The problem with these is that you always get a non-insignificant number of "new to the platform" people who get advice online, buy something that's incompatible out of the box, and them complain "bwaaaa, doesn't work, AMD sucks, never again, Intel for life!" all around the internet.

The "updates only accessible if you have the CPU" and "not available immediately" line...it's the classic "find a foolproof solution and there will be fools smart enough to overcome it and kill themselves". Within hours the BIOS files will be circulating on forums, under Youtube links and whatnot...and there will be self-appointed "experts" who decide to "prepare" their B450 board for Zen 3...deleting support from their installed 2600 from the BIOS. Cue screams of "AMD SUCKZ!" on the internet, along with the many others will scream "give us the BIOS already!" when they preorder a 4x00 CPU and end up using it as a paperweight for months.

Hate to admit it, but the one thing Intel almost always gets right is that whenever something new hits the market, it does so in a way that pretty much works out of the box. It might mean nothing to enthusiasts like the vast majority of us here, but to the 15 years old who just managed to convince his technically-pig-ignorant parents not to get a DELL laptop but to build a PC, that difference is everything.

shootermacg

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Hate to admit it, but the one thing Intel almost always gets right is that whenever something new hits the market, it does so in a way that pretty much works out of the box.

Really? You're kidding right?

Intel work this wonder, by making sure you need to buy a new mobo with every new release.

So on one hand you have intel who in their market dominance over the years, ensure they make a different socket, just to extort cash from the buyer (their 3rd party vendors love them for that)

And on the other hand you have AMD who're worried about the fact that 3rd party vendors, do not have enough onboard memory to support their processors, but offered a way for users to get around that issue.

Hyzepher

shootermacg wrote: »

Really? You're kidding right?

Intel work this wonder, by making sure you need to buy a new mobo with every new release.

So on one hand you have intel who in their market dominance over the years, ensure they make a different socket, just to extort cash from the buyer (their 3rd party vendors love them for that)

And on the other hand you have AMD who're worried about the fact that 3rd party vendors, do not have enough onboard memory to support their processors, but offered a way for users to get around that issue.

This isn't 100% accurate based on Intel's last few CPU iterations

H3llR4iser

shootermacg wrote: »

Really? You're kidding right?

Intel work this wonder, by making sure you need to buy a new mobo with every new release.

So on one hand you have intel who in their market dominance over the years, ensure they make a different socket, just to extort cash from the buyer (their 3rd party vendors love them for that)

And on the other hand you have AMD who're worried about the fact that 3rd party vendors, do not have enough onboard memory to support their processors, but offered a way for users to get around that issue.

I'm not saying the "new generation, new socket" approach is a good one, albeit I would also never go as far as claim it's just to "extort cash from the buyer", as it's usually a bit more nuanced than that.

However, what is absolutely, irrefutably true is that the "update the BIOS" path, especially when as you say AMD has no control over what 3rd parties do in terms of installed ROM and BIOS development, while can work wonders for you and me is a terrible consumer experience. And we know terrible consumer experiences generate talk and bad reputation much faster and more efficiently than good ones do.

Trying to keep the same platform going for multiple generations is commendable (although I wholeheartedly disagree with the entitlement of some reactions from users), but it needs to be done in full - work with the manufacturers to install proper ROM to begin with and study a solution where a non-compatible board can be updated without a CPU installed. Some boards do have this feature already - and I'm ready to bet it can be completely automated so the board can update itself via internet connection if powered on without a CPU.

K.O.Kiki

Since we don't have an Intel thread:

Intel Core i9-10900K reviews are out!

Serephucus

As long as you keep MCE disabled, it looks like a pretty ok chip for a pure gaming build, as it's topping most charts.
You enable MCE, and you get a bit more performance, at the expense of completely ruining any pretence at performance per watt.

wotzgoingon

Should have really have being posted in off topic thread but anyway. Bios issues looks like a rushed launch and kinda weird as well considering there is very little changes from previous Intel offerings. Imagine if they had released a brand new architecture what kinda problems there would have being.

djivide_

I think the interesting comparison is going to i7 10700k vs 4700x/4800x vermeer chips.

all the review sites got the i9 and i5 parts by the looks of it, I think the 10700k is going
to be the most interesting chip in the 10th gen line up. I dont think the 6c/12 thread is
going to hold up well in the long run particularly from a gaming point of view once devs
get used to ps5 / xbx with 8 core chips.

As a person who builds systems expecting them to last multiple years i honestly dont
mind if I have to get a new motherboard to get a new cpu or spend that bit more when
I do build a new system, for instance I am still rocking an i7 2600k. I have been on the
fence when to upgrade for a while and I think the end of this year/early 2021 is a good point,
current system even with gpu upgrades is really showing its age.

I expect to build something like this, all subject to change of course :

- msi x570 tomahawk

- 8c/16t amd vermeer (4700x?), maybe push it up the the 12c/24t sku for longevity. I have
always used intel chips in my personal rigs but have been impressed with epyc servers in work
including latest rome dual socket 64c/128t chips, interesting improvements in numa nodes vs
naples chips.

- rtx 3080ti / GA102 gpu, maybe big navi but would be wary of driver issues with amd gpus.

- probably 32gb of 3600 mhz ram, depending on what works best for zen3, 16gb seems
to be the sweet spot right now but I build for future use and would expect 32gb to be
mininum I would spec out. I expect zen3 & intel 11th gen to be the last ddr4 chips and
from all previous transitions i have seen the older tech with xmp out performs first gen
of new tech and at a lower price

.G.

Just for anyone following my trials and tribulations with my sons Ryzen build over the last few months I seem to have a conclusion. As mentioned I finally replaced the 3600 a couple of weeks back after replacing just about everything else in the build first and the problems went away only after the cpu swap.

Sent the 3600 back to OCUK last week and they confirmed it's faulty so it's gone back to AMD. Got unlucky I guess! Hopefully I get a refund but if not there'll be a cheap warranty replacement 3600 going on adverts soon!

AlmightyCushion

.G. wrote: »

Just for anyone following my trials and tribulations with my sons Ryzen build over the last few months I seem to have a conclusion. As mentioned I finally replaced the 3600 a couple of weeks back after replacing just about everything else in the build first and the problems went away only after the cpu swap.

Sent the 3600 back to OCUK last week and they confirmed it's faulty so it's gone back to AMD. Got unlucky I guess! Hopefully I get a refund but if not there'll be a cheap warranty replacement 3600 going on adverts soon!

Glad you got it sorted in the end. It's an absolute nightmare scenario for anyone building a PC.

H3llR4iser

.G. wrote: »

Just for anyone following my trials and tribulations with my sons Ryzen build over the last few months I seem to have a conclusion. As mentioned I finally replaced the 3600 a couple of weeks back after replacing just about everything else in the build first and the problems went away only after the cpu swap.

Sent the 3600 back to OCUK last week and they confirmed it's faulty so it's gone back to AMD. Got unlucky I guess! Hopefully I get a refund but if not there'll be a cheap warranty replacement 3600 going on adverts soon!

Wow, good to hear. In 25+ years building, upgrading and generally tinkering with systems, I don't think I've ever ran into a defective CPU - and the fact everyone in here left that possibility as the most unlikely, final item to check, really speaks volumes about the manufacturers quality standards.

Or maybe the fact each and every one of us immediately thought the mainboard, GPU or RAM would be defective, tells that these parts tend to suffer from sh1tty QC

savemejebus

Only had a faulty cpu issue once, and that was an Amazon Warehouse 7600k. To be fair to them they refunded me immediately but still a frustrating few days isolating the issue.

Cuddlesworth

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Wow, good to hear. In 25+ years building, upgrading and generally tinkering with systems, I don't think I've ever ran into a defective CPU - and the fact everyone in here left that possibility as the most unlikely, final item to check, really speaks volumes about the manufacturers quality standards.

Or maybe the fact each and every one of us immediately thought the mainboard, GPU or RAM would be defective, tells that these parts tend to suffer from sh1tty QC

I've come across two over the years, both Intel. Its usually easy to tell, fails stress testing right away. Now days with the interaction between ram and cpu being integrated into the cpu its harder to tell.

.G.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Wow, good to hear. In 25+ years building, upgrading and generally tinkering with systems, I don't think I've ever ran into a defective CPU - and the fact everyone in here left that possibility as the most unlikely, final item to check, really speaks volumes about the manufacturers quality standards.

Or maybe the fact each and every one of us immediately thought the mainboard, GPU or RAM would be defective, tells that these parts tend to suffer from sh1tty QC

Yeah I'm building a similar time myself so I didn't believe it either, I've certainly never had one before. We got there in the end though! I'm just glad its over, I'll get some bloody peace now:D

.G.

savemejebus wrote: »

Only had a faulty cpu issue once, and that was an Amazon Warehouse 7600k. To be fair to them they refunded me immediately but still a frustrating few days isolating the issue.

This is another minor annoyance. If i'd bought it originally with Amazon I'd have sent it back ages ago cos they'd just take my word for it and replace it or refund. With OCUK even with the fact they know its faulty they are sending it back to AMD to remedy which they say may take 28 days or longer rather than just sending me a new one off the shelf.

I'll be sticking to Amazon for future purchases.

A few of the AIB's showcased their B550 boards earlier. The Aorus B550 Master looks sweet.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B550-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#kf

wotzgoingon

Deleted User wrote: »

A few of the AIB's showcased their B550 boards earlier. The Aorus B550 Master looks sweet.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B550-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#kf

It will probably have a master price to go with it.

wotzgoingon

wotzgoingon wrote: »

It will probably have a master price to go with it.

More than likely. Nice feature packed board though.

Redfox25

.G. wrote: »

This is another minor annoyance. If i'd bought it originally with Amazon I'd have sent it back ages ago cos they'd just take my word for it and replace it or refund. With OCUK even with the fact they know its faulty they are sending it back to AMD to remedy which they say may take 28 days or longer rather than just sending me a new one off the shelf.

I'll be sticking to Amazon for future purchases.

I had that issue with a GPU, they confirmed in house that it was defective but had to send it back anyways, long long wait till I got a new one.

K.O.Kiki

The X570 version costs €390 so maybe €290?

But that mobo has me drooling.
And triple M.2 slots!

K.O.Kiki

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The X570 version costs €390 so maybe €290?

But that mobo has me drooling.
And triple M.2 slots!

That's what i'd want it for too. Triple M.2. I have a spare one here with nowhere to put it.

wotzgoingon

I have a Aorus X570 Ultra and doesn't have as many USB 3.2 ports as that B550 Master has. The difference a year makes.

Doge

Would it be worth upgrading to a Ryzen 3 3300X from a Ryzen 5 1600 (standard, not AF version)?

I just find that some of the less optimized flight and racing simulators i use are very reliant on Single Thread Performance and average at under 30% overall CPU usage.

Running the Vulkan API helps a lot but its not yet available for DCS World.

Just wondering if I would see much of a performance boost.

Also running a GTX 1080, and 32GB of ddr 4 RAM running @ 3000mhz.

wotzgoingon

The single core performance is a lot better on the 3000 series compare to 2000 and 1000.

I don't know the exact figures for the 3300X but I suppose it would be easy to check reviews to see the single core scores for that particular chip.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-3-3100-and-3300x-review,8.html

Very good single-threaded/IPC boost.

Homelander

Doge wrote: »

Would it be worth upgrading to a Ryzen 3 3300X from a Ryzen 5 1600 (standard, not AF version)?

I just find that some of the less optimized flight and racing simulators i use are very reliant on Single Thread Performance and average at under 30% overall CPU usage.

Running the Vulkan API helps a lot but its not yet available for DCS World.

Just wondering if I would see much of a performance boost.

Also running a GTX 1080, and 32GB of ddr 4 RAM running @ 3000mhz.

I would say not really when looking at longer picture. Obviously the 3300X will perform much better than the 1600 in apps that require strong per-core performance.

You might as well just get a Ryzen 3600 though, it's not much more and you get the IPC boost while holding onto the hex-core. Going from 6/12 to 4/8 for the sake of better IPC isn't a great long-term investment if you plan keeping the CPU for a few years and play other things that aren't single core dependent.