Waterford Mayor on Drug Dealers.

TheQuietFella

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/74674-waterford-mayor-says-cuts-to-garda-drugs-unit-means-criminals-no-longer-fear-capture.html

Don't we all know that one of the largest drugs dealer in Waterford is a relation

of a high ranking member of the GS!!! Lets see some action there or probably

inaction.

Wanderer78

jebus, when will we ever just legalise the lot and be done with this crap!

Cabaal

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jebus, when will we ever just legalise the lot and be done with this crap!

So you want all drugs that are illegal to be made legal? seriously?
I'm not sure that you've given this much thought,

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jebus, when will we ever just legalise the lot and be done with this crap!

Sure why not. While we are at it we can make murder legal to. Sure the authorities have never been able to stamp it out either.

Wanderer78

Cabaal wrote:

So you want all drugs that are illegal to be made legal? seriously? I'm not sure that you've given this much thought,

BBM77 wrote:

Sure why not. While we are at it we can make murder legal to. Sure the authorities have never been able to stamp it out either.

I've been giving this a lifetime of thought folks, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on how the laws(globally) on drugs have actually worked?

Yes I believe all illegal drugs should be legalised and taken under control of governments. Tax their use just like other dangerous substances, I.e. tobacco, alcohol etc. Invest this revenue into our health services, particularly into our mental health services, to try prevent addiction problems in the first place or at least help people with their issues.

The global war on drugs has largely failed. We have spent billions and trillions on this, and as far as I can see, there are more drugs available and cheaper now than before. We 're wasting valuable resources and money chasing this one. You will never stop humans from taking these type of drugs, so why let highly dangerous criminal gangs control this industry?

There's a growing consensus for this type of approach, and I clearly agree.

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I've been giving this a lifetime of thought folks, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on how the laws(globally) on drugs have actually worked?

Yes I believe all illegal drugs should be legalised and taken under control of governments. Tax their use just like other dangerous substances, I.e. tobacco, alcohol etc. Invest this revenue into our health services, particularly into our mental health services, to try prevent addiction problems in the first place or at least help people with their issues.

The global war on drugs has largely failed. We have spent billions and trillions on this, and as far as I can see, there are more drugs available and cheaper now than before. We 're wasting valuable resources and money chasing this one. You will never stop humans from taking these type of drugs, so why let highly dangerous criminal gangs control this industry?

There's a growing consensus for this type of approach, and I clearly agree.

Did you ever think that the fact that these drugs are illegal deters most people from using them? Also you don’t need to legalise them in order to try prevent addiction problems in the first place.

I mean the same argument could be applied to Pedophilia and murder. These things are never going to be completely stopped either, why spend Billions on a legal system that tries to prevent, capture and punish the people who do these things. The reason it is done is because it is the right thing to do. But for some reason with drugs some people think that legalisation is somehow going to improve the situation. Sure we have a legal drug now in Alcohol and it costs the country Billions every year to deal with the consequences of its use. Not to mention the personal distress its use causes a large number of people. So by your logic having more illegal hard drugs it is somehow going to improve the situation. I think the people with this “growing consensus” need to wake up.

O Riain

BBM77 wrote: »

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I've been giving this a lifetime of thought folks, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on how the laws(globally) on drugs have actually worked?

Yes I believe all illegal drugs should be legalised and taken under control of governments. Tax their use just like other dangerous substances, I.e. tobacco, alcohol etc. Invest this revenue into our health services, particularly into our mental health services, to try prevent addiction problems in the first place or at least help people with their issues.

The global war on drugs has largely failed. We have spent billions and trillions on this, and as far as I can see, there are more drugs available and cheaper now than before. We 're wasting valuable resources and money chasing this one. You will never stop humans from taking these type of drugs, so why let highly dangerous criminal gangs control this industry?

There's a growing consensus for this type of approach, and I clearly agree.

Did you ever think that the fact that these drugs are illegal deters most people from using them? Also you don t need to illegalise them in order to try prevent addiction problems in the first place.

I mean the same argument could be applied to Pedophilia and murder. These things are never going to be completely stopped either, why spend Billions on a legal system that tries to prevent, capture and punish the people who do these things. The reason it is done is because it is the right thing to do. But for some reason with drugs some people think that legalisation is somehow going to improve the situation. Sure we have a legal drug now in Alcohol and it costs the country Billions every year to deal with the consequences of its use. Not to mention the personal distress its use causes a large number of people. So by your logic having more illegal hard drugs it is somehow going to improve the situation. I think the people with this growing consensus need to wake up.

If you think alcohol is bad now then think about what it was like during Al Capone's days when it was prohibited. Crime and murder went through the roof for one simple fact - it was illegal and criminals could make a business from it.

He's dead right in saying they should all be made illegal, he's not talking about full scale promotion here but regulation and legalisation. It's the only way forward and how no one can see this is beyond me (nobody wants to).

Also with regards to Pedophilia, would you believe Germany now have adverts urging people to come forward to seek treatment. Who knows how that will work out but at least it's trying to be somewhat progressive because at the moment the only time help will be offered is when somebody is in jail and some poor childs life is ruined.

Also equating drugs to Pedophilia and murder is bloody ridiculous.

BBM77

O Riain wrote: »

If you think alcohol is bad now then think about what it was like during Al Capone's days when it was prohibited. Crime and murder went through the roof for one simple fact - it was illegal and criminals could make a business from it.

He's dead right in saying they should all be made illegal, he's not talking about full scale promotion here but regulation and legalisation. It's the only way forward and how no one can see this is beyond me (nobody wants to).

Also with regards to Pedophilia, would you believe Germany now have adverts urging people to come forward to seek treatment. Who knows how that will work out but at least it's trying to be somewhat progressive because at the moment the only time help will be offered is when somebody is in jail and some poor childs life is ruined.

Also equating drugs to Pedophilia and murder is bloody ridiculous.

I didn’t equate drugs to Paedophilia and murder I wrote that the same argument of you can’t stop it so make it legal could be applied. That just because something damaging cannot be stopped is not a reason to make it legal.

This was tried with Cannabis in the UK and they rolled back on it as it was leading to an increase in drug use and people going on to harder drugs. I just find it fanciful to suggest that legalising drugs is going to improve things.

O Riain

BBM77 wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

If you think alcohol is bad now then think about what it was like during Al Capone's days when it was prohibited. Crime and murder went through the roof for one simple fact - it was illegal and criminals could make a business from it.

He's dead right in saying they should all be made illegal, he's not talking about full scale promotion here but regulation and legalisation. It's the only way forward and how no one can see this is beyond me (nobody wants to).

Also with regards to Pedophilia, would you believe Germany now have adverts urging people to come forward to seek treatment. Who knows how that will work out but at least it's trying to be somewhat progressive because at the moment the only time help will be offered is when somebody is in jail and some poor childs life is ruined.

Also equating drugs to Pedophilia and murder is bloody ridiculous.

I didn t equate drugs to Paedophilia and murder I wrote that the same argument of you can t stop it so make it legal could be applied. That just because something damaging cannot be stopped is not a reason to make it legal.

This was tried with Cannabis in the UK and they rolled back on it as it was leading to an increase in drug use and people going on to harder drugs. I just find it fanciful to suggest that legalising drugs is going to improve things.

Do you not think it would reduce the organised crime element? This is essentially 90% of the problem to be honest.

honeybadger

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/74674-waterford-mayor-says-cuts-to-garda-drugs-unit-means-criminals-no-longer-fear-capture.html

Don't we all know that one of the largest drugs dealer in Waterford is a relation

of a high ranking member of the GS!!! Lets see some action there or probably

inaction.

who's the high ranking member of the GS you speak of

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Did you ever think that the fact that these drugs are illegal deters most people from using them? Also you don’t need to legalise them in order to try prevent addiction problems in the first place.

I mean the same argument could be applied to Pedophilia and murder. These things are never going to be completely stopped either, why spend Billions on a legal system that tries to prevent, capture and punish the people who do these things. The reason it is done is because it is the right thing to do. But for some reason with drugs some people think that legalisation is somehow going to improve the situation. Sure we have a legal drug now in Alcohol and it costs the country Billions every year to deal with the consequences of its use. Not to mention the personal distress its use causes a large number of people. So by your logic having more illegal hard drugs it is somehow going to improve the situation. I think the people with this “growing consensus” need to wake up.

im sure the legal status has indeed deterred some in partaking in the consumption of illegal drugs but i dont think this bothers those that do at all. ive been in the company of many drug users throughout my life, ive seen most drugs being used, and i dont think those partaking give a damn about the legality of it all. id be interested in hearing your alternatives in dealing with addiction without legalising drugs?

as it stands at the moment, we have no real clue of the amount of drugs entering the country and whos really taking them. by legalising it, we would soon find out the answer to these questions. we re basically playing an out of sight, out of mind game with this. its really a reactive system to the issue. legalising would create a proactive system or begin to create one.

as ive said previously, you ll find many regular drug users suffering from very complex issues such as mental health issues. i would rather see the implementation of free services such as counselling etc for users, and have the industry completely controlled by the state which could provide safe dosages, safe facilities, and over all quality control of these substances, rather than leaving it all to very dangerous criminal gangs, that have absolutely no interest in the well being of users. we are ultimately leaving it to the underworld to run this industry and pushing it underground.

humans have consumed mind altering drugs since we walked the planet, this will continue until we cease to exist. do we really want to pumping endless amounts of public resources and money into fighting this? is it actually having a positive effect or even any effect at all? i dont think so.

the right thing to do! now what does that mean? that seems like a very subjective thing to me. of course pedofiles and murderers should be jailed, but rehabilitation is critical in these cases. sadly ive been informed not all criminals can be rehabilitated though. it is also very important that these criminals should be studied intensely while in custody in order to try prevent them from reoffending and we may also find out what causes these people to behave in the way they do. by doing so, may prevent these dreadful crimes being committed in the first place.

alcohol certainly is a very complicated problem but at least there are some sort of quality control systems in place and that our government has some sort of influence in its dealings. ireland certainly has a very serious problem with alcoholism, i personally think, we have some very serious mental health issues in this country which leads to alcoholism but im aware, so do most other countries on this planet. as others have said, if alcohol was illegal, it too would be controlled by dangerous criminal gangs.

apologies for the long post, but its a very complex issue. this ted talk always comes to mind in relation to this subject matter:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ethan_nadelmann_why_we_need_to_end_the_war_on_drugs

i also think russell brand is hitting the nail on the head in these documentaries:

tombliboo83

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/74674-waterford-mayor-says-cuts-to-garda-drugs-unit-means-criminals-no-longer-fear-capture.html

Don't we all know that one of the largest drugs dealer in Waterford is a relation

of a high ranking member of the GS!!! Lets see some action there or probably

inaction.

Who is the high ranking member?

StringerBell

Seems we certainly don't all know that one of the largest drug dealers is a relation of a high ranking Garda so.

robtri

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I've been giving this a lifetime of thought folks, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on how the laws(globally) on drugs have actually worked?

Yes I believe all illegal drugs should be legalised and taken under control of governments. Tax their use just like other dangerous substances, I.e. tobacco, alcohol etc. Invest this revenue into our health services, particularly into our mental health services, to try prevent addiction problems in the first place or at least help people with their issues.

The global war on drugs has largely failed. We have spent billions and trillions on this, and as far as I can see, there are more drugs available and cheaper now than before. We 're wasting valuable resources and money chasing this one. You will never stop humans from taking these type of drugs, so why let highly dangerous criminal gangs control this industry?

There's a growing consensus for this type of approach, and I clearly agree.

there are numerous laws on murder as well and yet we still see murder happening all the time, therefore the system has failed here as well and we should legalise murder, pop a tax on it and it will be a perfect revenue stream....

your argument that because government struggle to control it, it should be legal is ridiculous.

whatever about legalising individual drugs, just plain stupid to say legalise it all....

O Riain

robtri wrote: »

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I've been giving this a lifetime of thought folks, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on how the laws(globally) on drugs have actually worked?

Yes I believe all illegal drugs should be legalised and taken under control of governments. Tax their use just like other dangerous substances, I.e. tobacco, alcohol etc. Invest this revenue into our health services, particularly into our mental health services, to try prevent addiction problems in the first place or at least help people with their issues.

The global war on drugs has largely failed. We have spent billions and trillions on this, and as far as I can see, there are more drugs available and cheaper now than before. We 're wasting valuable resources and money chasing this one. You will never stop humans from taking these type of drugs, so why let highly dangerous criminal gangs control this industry?

There's a growing consensus for this type of approach, and I clearly agree.

there are numerous laws on murder as well and yet we still see murder happening all the time, therefore the system has failed here as well and we should legalise murder, pop a tax on it and it will be a perfect revenue stream....

your argument that because government struggle to control it, it should be legal is ridiculous.

whatever about legalising individual drugs, just plain stupid to say legalise it all....

Do criminals make a business out of selling murder on a wide scale basis?

Suryavarman

BBM77 wrote: »

I didn’t equate drugs to Paedophilia and murder I wrote that the same argument of you can’t stop it so make it legal could be applied. That just because something damaging cannot be stopped is not a reason to make it legal.

This was tried with Cannabis in the UK and they rolled back on it as it was leading to an increase in drug use and people going on to harder drugs. I just find it fanciful to suggest that legalising drugs is going to improve things.

The problem with your comparison is that there is a reason we criminalise murder and paedophilia. Engaging in those activities hurts other people. Drug dealing and use doesn't. Criminalising of drugs causes more harm than good. It's hard to argue it even does any good at all whereas we know for certain it does a huge amount of harm.

Wanderer78

robtri wrote: »

there are numerous laws on murder as well and yet we still see murder happening all the time, therefore the system has failed here as well and we should legalise murder, pop a tax on it and it will be a perfect revenue stream....

your argument that because government struggle to control it, it should be legal is ridiculous.

whatever about legalising individual drugs, just plain stupid to say legalise it all....

not at all, as i said, theres a growing consensus globally, that our drug laws are failing or have failed as explained previously. i think the talks and documentaries above explain it very well. its truly is a complete waste of public resources and public funding trying to control this industry as is. i think russell brand is right in saying, drug use is a health issue not a legal issue!

this debate is becoming very silly, even immature with the inclusion of complex issues such as murder and pedofila.

robtri

Wanderer78 wrote: »

not at all, as i said, theres a growing consensus globally, that our drug laws are failing or have failed as explained previously. i think the talks and documentaries above explain it very well. its truly is a complete waste of public resources and public funding trying to control this industry as is. i think russell brand is right in saying, drug use is a health issue not a legal issue!

this debate is becoming very silly, even immature with the inclusion of complex issues such as murder and pedofila.

no its immature to think of drugs as a health issue, but if your taking advice from russell brand...

drugs and the issues they create are a lot more complex than murder...

any family that has had to deal with drug issues and the effects they have had will tell you.... legalising them will not make these issues go away nor the crime that is involved with users getting money to support their habits..

legalising drugs be similar to legal tobacco, look how no cartels or crime gangs are not involved in that trade as its all legal and tax paying..... ohhhh wait!!!!!

robtri

Suryavarman wrote: »

The problem with your comparison is that there is a reason we criminalise murder and paedophilia. Engaging in those activities hurts other people. Drug dealing and use doesn't. Criminalising of drugs causes more harm than good. It's hard to argue it even does any good at all whereas we know for certain it does a huge amount of harm.

you really live in fantasy land.. drug use and dealing doesnt hurt anyone....
wow!!!

Smondie

robtri wrote: »

no its immature to think of drugs as a health issue, ....

what sort of an issue would you classify it as?

robtri

Smondie wrote: »

what sort of an issue would you classify it as?

a complex issue, as it reaches into many different sectors, trying to pigeon hole it into one in my opinion is not dealing with the use and effects of drugs on people, family and communities.

Suryavarman

robtri wrote: »

you really live in fantasy land.. drug use and dealing doesnt hurt anyone....
wow!!!

The only person hurt by drug use is the drug user.

longshanks

Legalising the possession of drugs for personal use cut crime and addiction rates in Portugal. people caught with drugs get councelling. This resulted in lower HIV rates among users too. The policy makers took a step back to look at what the situation was, how they were dealing with it and what results they were achieving. They realised existing policies didn't work and decided to try something different.
It should, at the very least, be looked at here.

BBM77

Suryavarman wrote: »

The problem with your comparison is that there is a reason we criminalise murder and paedophilia. Engaging in those activities hurts other people. Drug dealing and use doesn't. Criminalising of drugs causes more harm than good. It's hard to argue it even does any good at all whereas we know for certain it does a huge amount of harm.

Quite simply this is a complete fantasy.

griffdaddy

Anyone who can't see how legalisation is the way forward needs their head checked.

The present situation: 'Drugs are dangerous and addictive, not to mention often impure and contaminated. Let's relinquish control entirely to dangerous criminals who are willing to mass murder to keep their stranglehold on their user base. While we're at it, let's destroy the lives of their victims, or indeed casual users by creating a social stigma and imposing robust, highly-consequential convictions for personal drug use.'

The potential situation if proper legislation was enacted: 'Let's take back control of all this dangerous stuff, ensure it comes through our channels only and is at least what it claims to be. Let's cripple the mass murdering crime gangs by choking them of their revenue stream. Let's help the bottom user who needs help and allow the casual user do whatever they want to their own body in the privacy of their own home.'

There is simply no excuse for continuing the way we are. The longer this sh1t goes on the more I think politicians should start to be charged with some kind of State negligence for allowing this madness to continue.

griffdaddy

griffdaddy wrote: »

Anyone who can't see how legalisation is the way forward needs their head checked...............

So the state establishes business relations with suppliers of cocaine, heroin etc..... import it, cut it and package for supply.

You're going to need some level of regulation as it's essentially a form of unprescribed medicine, so the IMB or someone will have to get involved. We couldn't have the legally sold daz or junk killing someone so it all has to be done seriously professionally.

Essentially, a gram or bag would cost multiples of what it does now so the crime gangs will continue to supply the bulk of the market with the illegal stuff.

Anyone who thinks legalising class A drugs is the way forward needs their head checked imo.

griffdaddy

Augeo wrote: »

So the state establishes business relations with suppliers of cocaine, heroin etc..... import it, cut it and package for supply.

You're going to need some level of regulation as it's essentially a form of unprescribed medicine, so the IMB or someone will have to get involved. We couldn't have the legally sold daz or junk killing someone so it all has to be done seriously professionally.

Essentially, a gram or bag would cost multiples of what it does now so the crime gangs will continue to supply the bulk of the market with the illegal stuff.

Actually you're right. The criminals are far better placed to do all of that, they are criminals after all. :rolleyes:

There is no magic answer to this. Drugs aren't going anywhere. They're available in every city in every country. Why are you so eager to allow criminals retain control of them? We should let them run the Transport system as well while we're at it. At least it wouldn't be so tied up in regulation

kupus

Suryavarman wrote: »

The only person hurt by drug use is the drug user.

Along with their families, parents brothers sisters kids etc,
the victims they rob to fund their habit, the victims family if it's a bad beating.

So no the only person hurt by drug use is not the user. In fact the user is the one person that is able to escape the madness of their own lives by taking drugs.
I knew a guy that contracted a blood infection by injecting a dirty needle, even after losing his arms and legs due to the infection it was always somebody else's fault.

irishgrover

BBM77 wrote: »

I didn’t equate drugs to Paedophilia and murder I wrote that the same argument of you can’t stop it so make it legal could be applied. That just because something damaging cannot be stopped is not a reason to make it legal. .

of course you equated drugs to Paedophilia and murder......totally ridiculous and sensationalist bullsh!t to make a point.....

griffdaddy

griffdaddy wrote: »

Actually you're right. The criminals are far better placed to do all of that, they are criminals after all. :rolleyes:

There is no magic answer to this. Drugs aren't going anywhere. They're available in every city in every country. Why are you so eager to allow criminals retain control of them? We should let them run the Transport system as well while we're at it. At least it wouldn't be so tied up in regulation

I simply highlighted that once regulated cost is added, the criminals can supply cheaper, most of the class A drug users won't go the regulated route and pay x2 x3 the price.

Look at the illegal cigarettes market, absolutely huge market in Ireland and the UK.

I don't see how you think I'm eager to allow criminals regain control by highlighting how regulation simply won't work, they don't go hand in hand. Eagerness and a grasp of reality aren't the same thing.

Criminals don't get into transport as it's not lucrative. It's all about the money.

So you honestly see some junkie buying a bag of brown for €80 in Tesco if they can get it for €30 on the street. Please wake up.

Key point is the criminals don't do all that, ffs, I mentioned the IMB. Your local daz dealer isn't audited by the IMB.

griffdaddy

Augeo wrote: »

I simply highlighted that once regulated cost is added, the criminals can supply cheaper, most of the class A drug users won't go the regulated route and pay x2 x3 the price.

Look at the illegal cigarettes market, absolutely huge market in Ireland and the UK.

I don't see how you think I'm eager to allow criminals regain control by highlighting how regulation simply won't work, they don't go hand in hand. Eagerness and a grasp of reality aren't the same thing.

Criminals don't get into transport as it's not lucrative. It's all about the money.

So you honestly see some junkie buying a bag of brown for €80 in Tesco if they can get it for €30 on the street. Please wake up.

Key point is the criminals don't do all that, ffs, I mentioned the IMB. Your local daz dealer isn't audited by the IMB.

Do you know the mark up that drug dealers make at the moment? In fact, do you know the mark up the pharmaceutical companies make on legal drugs? Do you know how much drugs cost to manufacture? There's plenty and plenty of financial wiggle space there to bolt on any kind of regulation and indeed support services you could want. Also, the exact model of legislation would have to be looked at and all of these kinks ironed out. It's not about allowing criminals regain control, they already have control. It's about taking control away from them. It's actually those who insist on allowing criminals to control drugs that are being defeatist, not the commonly spun line that legalisation is giving in.