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Since when did God start controlling the outcome of boxing matches

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Qs wrote: »
    Well here in Ireland we are living in a nation where the line has been crossed. So until the Catholics move back from the line there is no "live and let live" to partake in.

    There's a difference between the Catholic church and catholics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭techdiver


    apart from the fact that we live in a western democracy where 92% of national schools are legally able to refuse admission to 5 year olds based on their religion (or lack thereof).
    You're wrong

    Eh, no he/she is not!

    You're simply uninformed or just being plain belligerent if you think otherwise.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,517 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Swanner wrote: »
    Discrimination in schools is not up for debate
    says the person who claims religion has no impact in society? on what basis do you rule out the point simply because it contradicts yours?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Stealthfins


    Seriously -you can't really believe this. Think about it a bit harder!

    Well OK I mean on our society here in Ireland,such as schooling etc

    I'll admit religion is responsible for a lot of wars,hate at absolute tyrannical proportions.

    But Ireland is gradually going secular,and it's not so bad.

    I was lucky to grow up in Shannon as a kid it was a lot more secular.

    Who am I to talk about the rest of the world.

    Maybe Shannon was a bit more secular due to its proximity to the airport and free zone....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Stealthfins


    techdiver wrote:
    Talk about a straw man argument.

    I'd prefer wicker man I'm a pagan

    Thanks


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    In your opinion..... In her opinion there is a God, the only difference is that she wouldn't slate or belittle you for your lack of belief in the same way that you chose to belittle her belief.


    You seem to be missing the point. The issue is that she seems to be "blaming" her god for her loss. What she believes is her business but refusing to take responsibility for why she lost (which she genuinely did) is hardly the best way to do something about being better next time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Swanner wrote: »
    Fair enough. We agree to some extent..

    I suppose where we diverge is that i just accept their beliefs as theirs, shrug my shoulders and move on. I have no need to understand them or question them let alone make them try and think like me.



    Discrimination in schools is not up for debate and i mentioned that in the initial post that Stealthfins was responding to. No question that this needs to change.

    But aside from schools, I just don't see how religion has this over powering affect on every atheists life. It just doesn't bear out in my own experience, that of my family's or my friends, none of whom experience any of the issues that atheists constantly refer to on here..

    Maybe it's a type of confirmation bias in reverse.

    A few off the top of my head.

    1. Woman's right to choose.
    2. Blasphemy law
    3. Fifth Amendment
    4. A national parliament that prays before meeting.
    5. Bible still the default mechanism for swearing someone in in court

    for ****s and giggles:

    6. Good Friday pub closing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    says the person who claims religion has no impact in society?

    I never said that.
    on what basis do you rule out the point simply because it contradicts yours?

    I don't. I'm simply stating that I rarely if ever find religion imposing on any aspect of mine or my families life. And if and when it does i simply ignore it and move on..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Swanner wrote:
    I have no need to understand them or question them let alone make them try and think like me.


    Nor do I but if was her coach I think I would be somewhat frustrated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    First Up wrote: »
    You seem to be missing the point. The issue is that she seems to be "blaming" her god for her loss. What she believes is her business but refusing to take responsibility for why she lost (which she genuinely did) is hardly the best way to do something about being better next time.

    If you believed you won 3 rounds out of 4, what would you have thought?

    I didn't read it as blaming god for losing. It seemed like she believed she won 3 rounds out of 4. Other people might have said/thought the judges were wrong. She sought to rationalise what she saw as the wrong result as God's plan.

    I don't think she ever sat back in training saying "It'll be alright on the night...sure God's gonna box the face off her for me"


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    techdiver wrote: »
    A few off the top of my head.
    1. Woman's right to choose.

    The RC Church certainly adopts a particular stance on this issue however the RC church is not "religion" as much as some here seem to think it is.

    It's also incredibly naive to think that religion is the only demarcation line because it's not. But probably best to stay clear of this topic given the emotions that tend to get involved..
    techdiver wrote: »
    2. Blasphemy law
    3. Fifth Amendment
    4. A national parliament that prays before meeting.
    5. Bible still the default mechanism for swearing someone in in court

    for ****s and giggles:

    6. Good Friday pub closing

    Exactly...

    Are you honestly suggesting that any of these have any kind of impact on your daily life ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    I didn't read it as blaming god for losing. It seemed like she believed she won 3 rounds out of 4. Other people might have said/thought the judges were wrong. She sought to rationalise what she saw as the wrong result as God's plan.


    "God's plan" covers ( and hides) a multitude. If she said it wasn't god's plan that she box better, it could be reconciled with her beliefs.

    What she said implied that god influenced the judges. Not even the Irish commentators thought she won three rounds.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,517 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Swanner wrote: »
    I never said that.
    i think i mixed up a comment StealthFins made with one of yours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    First Up wrote: »
    "God's plan" covers ( and hides) a multitude. If she said it wasn't god's plan that she box better, it could be reconciled with her beliefs.

    What she said implied that god influenced the judges. Not even the Irish commentators thought she won three rounds.

    I didn't hear what the commentators said but Michael Carruth said on the radio she did. But that's a moot point...she believed she did.

    And I don't think she implied that god influenced the judges. I think it was too soon after for her to imply anything.

    But look, both you and I are interpreting what she meant differently so we'll only go around in circles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    First Up wrote: »
    Nor do I but if was her coach I think I would be somewhat frustrated.

    Big time..

    Personally I wouldn't be able to coach an athlete who put so much trust in a God..

    I'd feel cheated and hard done by when they won and gave God all the thanks :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Swanner wrote:
    Are you honestly suggesting that any of these have any kind of impact on your daily life ?


    They could, as do the constraints on medical practitioners treating problem pregnancies and as did the ban on divorce until it was eventually and very belatedly removed.

    Much of Europe's history was influenced and dictated by the overlap of religion and politics.

    It it also the case that religion pretty well dictates how society functions in many Muslim countries.

    To deny religion's intrusion into civil society is to ignore reality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Qs


    There's a difference between the Catholic church and catholics.

    Not really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Qs wrote: »
    Not really.

    So, an institution with its thoughts decided upon by the Vatican is the excat same as a person with catholic religious beliefs.

    So there are no Catholics who think disagree with the stance of the catholic church in several situations?

    Right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    After reading through this thread I find it ironic that some of the people who slate the in your face religious people are just as bad from the other end.

    The majority of catholics are very tolerant people as are the majority atheists. You get some idiots who are extreme on both sides and will never change


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Qs


    So, an institution with its thoughts decided upon by the Vatican is the excat same as a person with catholic religious beliefs.

    So there are no Catholics who think disagree with the stance of the catholic church in several situations?

    Right.

    If people disagree with the Catholic church they don't have to follow it. If they do follow it and support it then they are part of the religion and therefore part of the church and have to accept criticism from those who object to their churches political and social meddling.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    And I don't think she implied that god influenced the judges. I think it was too soon after for her to imply anything.


    It is the only possible interpretation of what she said. I appreciate that it was in the heat of the moment in a stressful and traumatic situation and she isn't blessed with verbal skills at the best of times.

    It might be nice if she gave her opponent some credit (along with her god) now that she has cooled down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    So God decides who wins at the Olympics? Is it based on who trains hardest, or who prays the hardest. I may get slated here for knocking the nations sweetheart but thats one whopper delusion Katie Taylor is under!
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/katie-taylors-post-fight-interview-is-heartbreaking-to-watch-749845.html

    Why do you care? You don't believe theres a God but she does. Doesn't make either of you the better person.
    Being an Atheist doesn't mean you have to take the piss out of people for their belief in religion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Qs wrote: »
    If people disagree with the Catholic church they don't have to follow it. If they do follow it and support it then they are part of the religion and therefore part of the church and have to accept criticism from those who object to their churches political and social meddling.

    There are plenty of people who will call themselves catholics yet will disagree with the stance of the Catholic Church.

    The Church, as an iinstitution, promotes its interpretation. That doesn't mean it's the only interpretation of a teaching that's valid.

    You can be catholic and disagree with The Church and it's negative influence/meddling in fundamental aspects of society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    First Up wrote: »
    It is the only possible interpretation of what she said. I appreciate that it was in the heat of the moment in a stressful and traumatic situation and she isn't blessed with verbal skills at the best of times.

    It might be nice if she gave her opponent some credit (along with her god) now that she has cooled down.

    And maybe she does.

    May not make the headlines though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Help!!!! wrote:
    Why do you care? You don't believe theres a God but she does. Doesn't make either of you the better person. Being an Atheist doesn't mean you have to take the piss out of people for their belief in religion.


    I don't know how often it has to be said but I'll try one more;

    Nobody is taking the piss out of her for her beliefs. They are (quite rightly) taking issue with how she interpreted the reason for the result if her fight.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Stealthfins


    techdiver wrote:
    1. Woman's right to choose. 2. Blasphemy law 3. Fifth Amendment 4. A national parliament that prays before meeting. 5. Bible still the default mechanism for swearing someone in in court

    Women's right to choose what ?

    Blasphemy law lol it's a joke

    Fifth Amendment....seriously I think you are very emotionally attached to such...

    Praying before meetings,lol it's only words...
    Do you seriously think they're actually praying in a spiritual or religious way lol

    Make up your own mechanism for swearing in court.

    The Bible's only a book it's not going to gobble you up seriously it's a book.

    Holy water isn't acid either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    First Up wrote: »
    Much of Europe's history was influenced and dictated by the overlap of religion and politics.

    To deny religion's intrusion into civil society is to ignore reality.

    The point was that a significant number of posts in this forum would have you believe that almost every aspect and moment of an atheists life is impacted or influenced by religion. It's not.

    In fact very little of our lives these days are influenced by religion assuming that's how we want it.

    The few small intrusions that do occur are very easily dismissed and ignored.

    The only exception i can think of is education and that is changing rapidly.

    Abortion, as i said runs far deeper then religion. There are deep moral and ethical issues involved thet have nothing to do with religious views but that's for another thread.

    I'm not suggesting for a second that religion hasn't had a massive impact on civil society and still does in certain societies today. However, for those of us lucky enough to live here in the Republic in 2016, it will have very little if any impact unless for some reason, we allow it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Stealthfins


    Swanner wrote:
    I'm not suggesting for a second that religion hasn't had a massive impact on civil society and still does in certain societies today. However, for those of us lucky enough to live here in the Republic in 2016, it will have very little if any impact unless for some reason, you allow it.

    Well said,it's a shame more atheists don't see it like you do.

    The divel has gotten to them...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    First Up wrote: »
    I don't know how often it has to be said but I'll try one more;

    Nobody is taking the piss out of her for her beliefs. They are (quite rightly) taking issue with how she interpreted the reason for the result if her fight.

    Ok so why take issue with what she said? Its what she believes....so what?
    I wonder how many Atheists call for a priest on their death beds? Some people want to believe theres something, others dont


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Help!!!! wrote:
    Ok so why take issue with what she said?

    Because it was ungracious, unsporting and in denial.


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