Double standards

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

In the interest of fairness, and not to misquote or put words in the journalists mouth, here's the context of the conversation. Also, it's not a dig at her, or her beliefs, I'm just genuinely curious to understand if this is genuinely how feminism works, or if it's a belief that's commonly held.

http://tinypic.com/r/vry7hy/9

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

To be fair, there's a massive difference between a women being objectified by a group of men, and a man being objectified by a group of women.

Really? I've met plenty of girls who were physically stronger and fitter than I am. A group of women objectifying me in a negative way and becoming aggressive can be intimidating.

onthemitch

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It brought on the discussion. Her followers commented on her talking about the lads being big rides and then when she got a bit outraged about the ring girls, who I suppose the men thought were big rides.

Then followed it up with women can't be sexist because they don't pose the same threat.

Nope – wrong. I never said that women can't be sexist. I said that pointing out that somebody is good-looking (while they are partaking in an MMA fight) is not sexist. Hiring ring girls specifically BECAUSE they are good-looking, especially in the absence of "ring boys" IS sexist.

And I never said that women can't be sexist, or that black people can't be racist – I said that sexism doesn't affect men in the same way that it affects women (ie that we are all-too frequently objectified and sexually harassed or assaulted, events that are rare for men). Much like racism doesn't affect white people in the same way it affects black people.

I'm glad you've now put up that screenshot so that you can see, really clearly, that you both misunderstood and misrepresented me.

If anyone in this entire thread believes you posted this "to understand if this is how feminism works", well, I'll renounce my feminist hat and accept a life of kitchen-based servitude.

Taboola

LexieOnRale wrote: »

In the interest of fairness, and not to misquote or put words in the journalists mouth, here's the context of the conversation. Also, it's not a dig at her, or her beliefs, I'm just genuinely curious to understand if this is genuinely how feminism works, or if it's a belief that's commonly held.

http://tinypic.com/r/vry7hy/9

Yeh I think you've picked her up totally wrong here.

Billy86

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She makes the point women can't be sexist in the same way a black person cannot be racist, as they're in the superiority group.

Two laughable fallacies, and that's really all there is to it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

onthemitch wrote: »

Nope – wrong. I never said that women can't be sexist. I said that pointing out that somebody is good-looking (while they are partaking in an MMA fight) is not sexist. Hiring ring girls specifically BECAUSE they are good-looking, especially in the absence of "ring boys" IS sexist.

And I never said that women can't be sexist, or that black people can't be racist – I said that sexism doesn't affect men in the same way that it affects women (ie that we are all-too frequently objectified and sexually harassed or assaulted, events that are rare for men). Much like racism doesn't affect white people in the same way it affects black people.

I'm glad you've now put up that screenshot so that you can see, really clearly, that you both misunderstood and misrepresented me.

If anyone in this entire thread believes you posted this "to understand if this is how feminism works", well, I'll renounce my feminist hat and accept a life of kitchen-based servitude.

Mm okay, but what's so hard to believe I'm genuinely interested in finding out from people who aren't you if they believe sexism affects men as much, or if black people being racist is just as bad as white people? It's an interesting discussion.

onthemitch

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Mm okay, but what's so hard to believe I'm genuinely interested in finding out from people who aren't you if they believe sexism affects men as much, or if black people being racist is just as bad as white people? It's an interesting discussion.

REALLY interesting, but just to clarify: my point wasn't that black people being racist was just fine and dandy. My point was that racism simply does not affect white people in the same way it affects black people. Similarly, sexism does not affect men in the same way it affects women.

There was nothing in there about granting permission to the minority groups (black people, women) to be sexist and/or racist. You simply made that part up.

noaddedsugar

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Mm okay, but what's so hard to believe I'm genuinely interested in finding out from people who aren't you if they believe sexism affects men as much, or if black people being racist is just as bad as white people? It's an interesting discussion.

She said it was hard to believe that you were trying to understand how feminism works. I find it hard to believe also. If that is what you were wondering you phrased your question oddly.

You know this board is ardently anti feminist, why on earth did you think AH would be the place that could answer how feminism works?

onthemitch

onthemitch wrote: »

Nope – wrong. I never said that women can't be sexist. I said that pointing out that somebody is good-looking (while they are partaking in an MMA fight) is not sexist. Hiring ring girls specifically BECAUSE they are good-looking, especially in the absence of "ring boys" IS sexist.

Is is that there were jobs available for sexy ring girls that is sexist, or that there were women wanting to become ring-girls that is sexist? Seems to me that if women never took these jobs, then they wouldn't exist.

More likely it's only sexist because some women are jealous of other women, and are using men to justify that jealousy.

And I never said that women can't be sexist, or that black people can't be racist – I said that sexism doesn't affect men in the same way that it affects women (ie that we are all-too frequently objectified and sexually harassed or assaulted, events that are rare for men).

And If I, as a man, am sexually harassed or assaulted by homosexual men? Or trans-gender? Or just women with higher testosterone than usual? Or simply a group of overweight strong women on a hen night? :rolleyes:

You're seeking to limit sexism against men basing it around physical assault. What about the sexism that suggests that women are always better parents than men? Quite a common misconception.

Much like racism doesn't affect white people in the same way it affects black people.

Rubbish. Try living in Asia (or a host of other areas) where there is active racism against white people and then you might understand what racism actualy entails.

I'm glad you've now put up that screenshot so that you can see, really clearly, that you both misunderstood and misrepresented me.

From this further explanation, I don't think they have.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

onthemitch wrote: »

REALLY interesting, but just to clarify: my point wasn't that black people being racist was just fine and dandy. My point was that racism simply does not affect white people in the same way it affects black people. Similarly, sexism does not affect in the same way it affects women.

There was nothing in there about granting permission to the minority groups (black people, women) to be sexist and/or racist. You simply made that part up.

We've already had this discussion, so I've heard your opinion on this. You've stated while it's not okay for a woman to grope a man, it's not as bad because she's doing it for the laugh on a hen party or because she's drunk.

I asked you earlier, if a man gropes an unattractive or very fat woman as a laugh, is that ok? Is that him being sexist? Or just being an asshole?

I would personally be of the belief all racism is bad. White people aren't less offended than black people.

You cannot tell a group of people how to take things. If a woman goes up to grope a man, then it is sexist. We don't have the right to tell that man how he should take that. If he wants to laugh it off, that's his business, but if he feels he's been singled out because of his gender, then that's fine too and he wouldn't be wrong.

Sweetemotion

onthemitch wrote: »

REALLY interesting, but just to clarify: my point wasn't that black people being racist was just fine and dandy. My point was that racism simply does not affect white people in the same way it affects black people. Similarly, sexism does not affect men in the same way it affects women.

There was nothing in there about granting permission to the minority groups (black people, women) to be sexist and/or racist. You simply made that part up.

In what way does racism, affect black people to white people differently?

And in what way does sexism affect women from men?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

noaddedsugar wrote: »

She said it was hard to believe that you were trying to understand how feminism works. I find it hard to believe also. If that is what you were wondering you phrased your question oddly.

You know this board is ardently anti feminist, why on earth did you think AH would be the place that could answer how feminism works?

Because it's the forum I frequent and read the most and didn't think it would be against the charter? If you feel like the topic is more suited elsewhere, report the post.

El_Duderino 09

sassyj wrote:

Loads of people call themselves feminists, but in reality have no f**king clue what it actually means.

There are some people who are born into a traditional underclass and wax lyrical about inequality. But you know that if they were born into the other class they would love being racist, sexist or a bully.

People, they're the worst.

noaddedsugar

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Because it's the forum I frequent and read the most and didn't think it would be against the charter? If you feel like the topic is more suited elsewhere, report the post.

Of course it isn't against the charter. I found it odd that someone who I know frequents and posts here a lot would think that AH would be the place for explanations of feminism given that you know the vast majority of posters here are anti feminist. Or you weren't actually looking for an explanation of feminism at all.

yes there

Ah the old femininist brigade, all they really crave is a strong hot guy to slap them on the ass and give them a cheeky wink. I wonder what the response woukd be if David beckham and the likes done that to 100 random women.

El_Duderino 09

ScumLord wrote:

The feminist movement is a bit of a joke at this point though, it's making noise just to be heard. Which could be said about any special interest group trying to operate in today's media circus.

Not at all fair. It's as stupid as pointing to a silly law and saying 'laws are a joke at this point'.

Some feminists talk nonsense but as a man, I'm very glad that feminism is a serious movement. You dont hear about the millions of normal feminists like me in the same way you don't hear about the planes that landed safely at their destination. You hear all about the one in a million planes that crashes though. I don't worry about flying and I don't worry about the few crazy feminists.

Sweetemotion

noaddedsugar wrote: »

Of course it isn't against the charter. I found it odd that someone who I know frequents and posts here a lot would think that AH would be the place for explanations of feminism given that you know the vast majority of posters here are anti feminist. Or you weren't actually looking for an explanation of feminism at all.

What right, has a man got in Ireland, that a woman doesn't have?

py2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Is is that there were jobs available for sexy ring girls that is sexist, or that there were women wanting to become ring-girls that is sexist? Seems to me that if women never took these jobs, then they wouldn't exist.

More likely it's only sexist because some women are jealous of other women, and are using men to justify that jealousy.

Amen.

Sweetemotion

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not at all fair. It's as stupid as pointing to a silly law and saying 'laws are a joke at this point'.

Some feminists talk nonsense but as a man, I'm very glad that feminism is a serious movement. You dont hear about the millions of normal feminists like me in the same way you don't hear about the planes that landed safely at their destination. You hear all about the one in a million planes that crashes though. I don't worry about flying and I don't worry about the few crazy feminists.

Steve Shives?

yes there

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Some feminists talk nonsense but as a man, I'm very glad that feminism is a serious movement. You dont hear about the millions of normal feminists like me in the same way you don't hear about the planes that landed safely at their destination. You hear all about the one in a million planes that crashes though. I don't worry about flying and I don't worry about the few crazy feminists.

You are a guy and you are a feminist? My god. What on earth possessed you to become a feminist?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

noaddedsugar wrote: »

Of course it isn't against the charter. I found it odd that someone who I know frequents and posts here a lot would think that AH would be the place for explanations of feminism given that you know the vast majority of posters here are anti feminist. Or you weren't actually looking for an explanation of feminism at all.

Where would you suggest I post this thread?

Sweetemotion

yes there wrote: »

You are a guy and you are a feminist? My god. What on earth possessed you to become a feminist?

loneliness :pac:

El_Duderino 09

Sweetemotion wrote:

Steve Shives?

I had to google Steve Shives.

yes there wrote:

You are a guy and you are a feminist? My god. What on earth possessed you to become a feminist?

Equality n'stuff. Are you not a fan?

py2006

Sweetemotion wrote: »

loneliness :pac:

In my experience its either a) plain and utter ignorance or b) pandering to a an abusive/controlling woman.

yes there

Sweetemotion wrote:

loneliness

Possibly, but can he use that as an excuse. Id love to know why he joined the movement. Is he satisfied with how its going and where does he think it will be in 20years.

El_Duderino 09

py2006 wrote:

In my experience its either a) plain and utter ignorance or b) pandering to a an abusive/controlling woman.

Why would it be ignorance? Ignorance if what? (So in a sense, you're right because I don't know what you mean)

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Equality n'stuff. Are you not a fan?

There's a vast difference between equality and feminism. I believe in Equality. The only problem is that few women actually want equality.

The Young Wan

Sweetemotion wrote: »

What right, has a man got in Ireland, that a woman doesn't have?

The right to decide what to do with every single part of their body.

*mic drop*

yes there

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Why would it be ignorance? Ignorance if what? (So in a sense, you're right because I don't know what you mean)

Have you ever objectified a woman? Or man if thats your pleasure?

El_Duderino 09

yes there wrote:

Have you ever objectified a woman? Or man if thats your pleasure?

Yes. I've also told lies, kicked my brother and I didn't go to bed when my parents told me and I didn't do my homework. What was the point if the question exactly?