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How would you reform the tv licence collection ?

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2

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    #32
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    What annoys me is the people who own tvs and are not on the system.

    Could Rte survive on advertisement money alone?


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    #33
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    They should offer it as a subscription service and let people who want to watch pay for it.


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    #34
    markfinn
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭markfinn


    mikeym wrote: »
    What annoys me is the people who own tvs and are not on the system.

    Could Rte survive on advertisement money alone?

    That would depend entirely on what you mean by survive.
    Could they carry out all necessary functions of a state broadcasting service? Absolutely. News broadcasts maybe 3 times a day and an emergency broadcast system no-one ever uses.

    Could they continue to try (and fail) to be an alternative to competent good TV broadcasting companies? Probably not.

    But they're never going to be good anyway, so bare minimalism is the reasonable and correct way to go.


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    #35
    Delta2113
    Registered Users Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Add it to the property tax. Problem solved.

    - Sadly it really is that simple but it probably wont happen. They would save millions this way on the contract for collection currently with An Post.

    Also they could get rid off Inspectors.


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    #36
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Delta2113 wrote: »
    - Sadly it really is that simple but it probably wont happen. They would save millions this way on the contract for collection currently with An Post.

    Also they could get rid off Inspectors.

    They could add it to anything as long as collect and the amount is not in the hands of government.


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    #37
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Current licence costs €160. An Post gets about 5% to collect it. About 15% do not pay it. So net cost should be €160 - 20% is about €128. So a charge of €10 per month would be attractive. This could be added to the electricity bill - if you do not have electricity then you do not pay.

    Further funding could come from a small (about €0.0025) charge per text message, or a small fee on the broadband charge based on either data downloaded or on bandwidth available. Or simply a charge on broadband and mobile providers - a levy.

    RTE do not just provide TV, they provide news, orchestras, and are the backbone of much of Irish culture.

    Maybe we should sell off the paintings in the National Gallery and the books in the National Library and sell off all the treasures in the National Museum. That should keep us going for a few weeks.

    The barbarians are at the gates.


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    #38
    minikin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭minikin


    yeah... if only revenue charged v.a.t. on every broadband / tv / phone bill.

    Oh wait, it's almost as if we're already paying through the hoop via media taxation for this sub-standard constantly-repeated devoid of original formatted drivel...

    When this changes people should happily pay their licence fee. Until such time we should all provide the inspectors 'another exciting opportunity' to see 2008's licence.


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    #39
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    minikin wrote: »
    yeah... if only revenue charged v.a.t. on every broadband / tv / phone bill.

    What I am talking about is creating a ring-fenced revenue stream for broadcasting and other culture based activity.

    Currently RTE gets the lions share but the money is spread about. TV3 got money for 'Red Rock' but usually denies it gets any licence fee money. The system is not perfect but it prevents government interference (well mostly) with RTE.


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    #40
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    1. Scrap it.
    2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
    3. Sell RTE.


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    #41
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Agent Smith wrote: »
    1. Scrap it.
    2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
    3. Sell RTE.

    Each channel 3 hours of news content. just news, no drama, no entertainment, no film, no comedy, no variety. I am not defending RTE in any of these areas but by regulating for just News and Current affairs you guaranteed no news during prime time (because regulation just says 3 hours and does give specific hours) with US and UK programming taking up the majority of Prime Time TV.

    RTE is worth about 90 million not much more. The land they own is prob worth more than the broadcast service. (taking into consideration prices paid for UTV and TV3 recently).

    Regulation like this did work in Australia but it wasn't just about News and Current Affairs, it allowed Australia become the 3rd biggest exported of English Language programming. And even in Australia they have 2 PSB in ABC and SBS.


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    #42
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Agent Smith wrote: »
    1. Scrap it.
    2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
    3. Sell RTE.

    Look what happened to UTV, one of the most successful ITV franchises.

    They started a station in Ireland to profit from the ITV soaps. It did not work. Parent company of UTV sold out to ITV, the Irish station then sold to TV3 owner.

    End result is a collection of rubbish stations relaying British and American programmes with just talking heads the only local content.

    RTE 1 still most watched station with quality news, quality current affairs and quality drama and much cultural content - not to mention sport.

    With your suggestion, I might just as well flog off the TV and buy a few books.


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    #43
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    I can think of nothing better than paying for two orchestra's that in my almost forty years on this earth I've never listened to.
    MOD EDIT: Deleted personal remarks about named individual
    Yes,the TV licence fee is a great thing.😨


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    #44
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,314 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Do nothing. Haven't paid it in years and they are hopeless at enforcement. Long live An Post.


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    #45
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    L1011 wrote: »
    Nope. Sky have long abused a loophole where they claimed consumption is in Luxembourg. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248788/Britains-biggest-TV-net-firms-used-Luxembourg-loophole-avoid-80million-tax.html and so on. There was some tightening up recently but they are not paying 23% VAT on all appropriate income here by any means.

    I would assume their corporation tax is similarly, eh, "managed" to ensure they pay as little as possible but this is specifically VAT I'm talking about and they have been abusing Luxembourgs system for decades. That SES are based there is coincidental.

    Thread on it here from a few yeas ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057308509&page=4


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    #46
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This from the Sunday Times a few weeks ago
    Naughten will also bring proposals to government in September to increase the amount of licence fee funding paid by the Department of Social Protection to the national broadcaster, and to restore the full state subsidy to TG4, which would give back the station €9.24m in licence fee revenue.
    ...
    In August 2011, the government decided to stop paying the annual subsidy directly to TG4. Since then the station has been funded from licence fee revenue, using resources that would otherwise have gone into RTÉ programming.

    Again in 2011, the government capped the money paid annually to RTÉ by the Department of Social Protection to provide free television licences to pensioners and other welfare clients.

    This was €57.2m a year in 2010, and reduced to €52.2m two years ago.

    Now Naughten is planning to remove the cap, either completely or by reversing the €5m cut first.
    ...
    He also said the high levels of TV licence evasion needed to be addressed as a matter of urgency


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    #47
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    What has electricity got to do with the tv licence?

    Several European countries collect their TV licence fee through the electricity bill including Italy, Portugal, Romania, Turkey, Greece.


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    #48
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    I can think of nothing better than paying for two orchestra's that in my almost forty years on this earth I've never listened to.

    Well do you suggest closing them?


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    #49
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Elmo wrote: »
    Well do you suggest closing them?

    Yes.


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    #50
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Yes.

    Do think libraries and museums should also be closed also?


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    #51
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Elmo wrote: »
    Do think libraries and museums should also be closed also?

    Not in the slightest.They provide a great service to the public unlike our national broadcaster which is only another gravy train.
    It's full of talentless hacks and bloated up with people on the gravy train like all the other quangos in this country.


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    #52
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Not in the slightest.They provide a great service to the public unlike our national broadcaster which is only another gravy train.
    It's full of talentless hacks and bloated up with people on the gravy train like all the other quangos in this country.

    The same applies to nearly all state funded operations. You could include parts of the civil service, the legal profession, the universities, the HSE, and many more.

    RTE is at least independent of the Government.


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    #53
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Not in the slightest.They provide a great service to the public unlike our national broadcaster which is only another gravy train.
    It's full of talentless hacks and bloated up with people on the gravy train like all the other quangos in this country.

    Never set foot in either time for them to go IMO


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    #54
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Cliff Walker wrote:
    I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.


    What's with the price increase?

    At the moment I pay €13.33 per month.

    But yes something should be done to include more people paying a TV licence, possibly an extra separate payment added to the property tax, it could actually see the tv licence fee reduced with more people paying.


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    #55
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,314 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    it could actually see the tv licence fee reduced with more people paying.

    Do you honestly believe that?


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    #56
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    Do you honestly believe that?

    A price reduction
    Initially yes, it could be used as a selling point in getting the public on-board with a new system.
    With more people paying it would most definitely raise more revenue.

    It's also important that the tv licence fee is kept separate from general taxisation so the monies collected is not spent on something else.


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    #57
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,314 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    It's also important that the tv licence fee is kept separate from general taxisation so the monies collected is not spent on something else.

    Why?


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    #58
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Why?

    More so that the government cannot influence the national broadcaster.


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    #59
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    Why?

    It's not my intention to get political, however to answer your question.

    If the collection of TV licence was done in tandem with the property tax, it would be important the figure raised stayed separate from the property tax raised.

    Like with the property tax it's was supposed to fund local authorities libraries, Fire Service etc.
    However the funding of our local services has been disputed.
    That possibly the money collected for LPT was spent else where with nothing to do with local services.

    By keeping the collection of TV licence separate we could account for how that money and exact figure is being clearly invested/funding on our behalf.

    Again sorry if I'm going off topic, just answering the question.


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    #60
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    It's not my intention to get political, however to answer your question.

    If the collection of TV licence was done in tandem with the property tax, it would be important the figure raised stayed separate from the property tax raised.

    Like with the property tax it's was supposed to fund local authorities libraries, Fire Service etc.
    However the funding of our local services has been disputed.
    That possibly the money collected for LPT was spent else where with nothing to do with local services.

    By keeping the collection of TV licence separate we could account for how that money and exact figure is being clearly invested/funding on our behalf.

    Again sorry if I'm going off topic, just answering the question.

    The money required to fund broadcasting should be kept out of politics because it affects politics. How many times has the then government tried to muzzle RTE or reduce its influence. How many times has the Catholic Church (through from Archbishop John Charles Maquade (who wanted to oversee all sermons broadcast by RTE) to Ray Burke (the less said about him the better).

    LPT was diverted to pay for Irish Water - but not only that, it is not even a local tax as it is redistributed around the councils so Dublin does not get all its LPT.

    This is what happens to funds that can be raided by governments. They divert money from one fund to another without any oversight or comeback.

    A simple tax (say €10 or €12 per month) that cannot be avoided that produces the current yield is what is needed. Putting a charge on electricity cannot be avoided and is free to collect (more or less). Putting the charge onto LPT would work but it is not a consumption base so would not sit well - do landlords pay for tenants?

    At the end of the day, it is a political decision and in the current atmosphere, it is time to kick the can.


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    #61
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Sam Russell wrote:
    Putting a charge on electricity cannot be avoided and is free to collect (more or less).

    I don't like the idea of putting the charge on the electricity bill.
    Some private companies are involved in the collection and administration of electricity bills.
    They won't do it for free, nor do I like the idea of private operators handling our money.
    The current system has to change, and the present Govt will possibly do nothing and just kick the can down the road.


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