How would you reform the tv licence collection ?

Cliff Walker

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cliff Walker wrote: »

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

There's still a tv licence...?

I thguht the just taxed an extra 18 euro or so monthly...

Atlantic Dawn

Cliff Walker wrote: »

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

What has electricity got to do with the tv licence?

elperello

Scrap the whole stupid system and take the money from general taxation.

Captain Chaos

Should just be added to the property at this stage. And stop increasing it every 2 years, €160 odd right now is a joke. We pay tax on our subs to Sky, UPC whatever as it is. So we are paying tax on a service we are already paying tax on each month.

mfceiling

Get rid of it. Why are we paying a tax to own a tv? Rte salaries are ridiculous. They get money from advertising and the licence and what was on rte plus 1 during the week? Mrs Brown's boys Christmas special. Great value alright.

Captain Chaos

mfceiling wrote: »

Get rid of it. Why are we paying a tax to own a tv? .

It's not tax for owning a TV anymore. It's a tax if you have a TV, radio, mobile phone or broadband and any device capable of using radio, TV or broadband services.

It's just a blanket tax at this stage.

L1011

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Should just be added to the property at this stage. And stop increasing it every 2 years, €160 odd right now is a joke. We pay tax on our subs to Sky, UPC whatever as it is. So we are paying tax on a service we are already paying tax on each month.

The last increase was 8 and a half years ago.

Sky's VAT benefits the Luxembourg government, not ours

And it's still levied on TV ownership only. You don't seem to understand it very well!

satguy

RTE radio, I never ever listen to,, It's newstalk in my car..

RTE 1 ,, maybe I might watch the 6:01 News, once a week, not every week.
I do like the C4 News at 7:00 , it's a good news show.

And while I know that there is the odd match on RTE 2, I do not think it's worth €4 every week.
RTE needs to be look at by our politicians, with a view to giving us more for our €4, so that we don't feel were smucks.

icdg

Sky has no connection with Luxembourg, it's a UK Plc whose largest shareholder is US based 21st Century Fox. You may be thinking of SES who own the actual satellites Sky rents capacity from.

The problem with a move to general taxation is that it puts RTE directly at the mercy of the Govenment of the day for funding. The threat (occasionally actually followed through) of a budget cut has been used effectively against the Australian ABC from time to time since they abolished their licence fee many years ago.

L1011

icdg wrote: »

Sky has no connection with Luxembourg, it's a UK Plc whose largest shareholder is US based 21st Century Fox. You may be thinking of SES who own the actual satellites Sky rents capacity from.

No, I'm not. BSkyB have Luxembourg holding companies which they use to charge their (paltry) VAT rate. They may only be able to do it on certain parts of their service these days though, forgot there was a change in the rules about services supplied from afar recently.

The Exchequer likely benefits more from the employees PAYE/USC (and the social insurance fund from both employer and employee PRSI) of the substantial number of staff here than they do from whatever they get off them in VAT.

gordongekko

L1011 wrote: »

Sky's VAT benefits the Luxembourg government, not ours

Not true

paul71

L1011 wrote: »

No, I'm not. BSkyB have Luxembourg holding companies which they use to charge their (paltry) VAT rate. They may only be able to do it on certain parts of their service these days though, forgot there was a change in the rules about services supplied from afar recently.

The Exchequer likely benefits more from the employees PAYE/USC (and the social insurance fund from both employer and employee PRSI) of the substantial number of staff here than they do from whatever they get off them in VAT.

Completely untrue, VAT is levied in the state of consumption always has been always will be. You are thinking of corp tax.

Cliff Walker

There is no point of talking unrealistic rubbish about closing down rte. I do think tho that there should be a pay cap for rte broadcasters of about 250k, pat kennys flop on newstalks proves that it was insance to have been paying him 950k at one stage.

Cortina_MK_IV

Cliff Walker wrote: »

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

To pay for what?

L1011

paul71 wrote: »

Completely untrue, VAT is levied in the state of consumption always has been always will be. You are thinking of corp tax.

Nope. Sky have long abused a loophole where they claimed consumption is in Luxembourg. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248788/Britains-biggest-TV-net-firms-used-Luxembourg-loophole-avoid-80million-tax.html and so on. There was some tightening up recently but they are not paying 23% VAT on all appropriate income here by any means.

I would assume their corporation tax is similarly, eh, "managed" to ensure they pay as little as possible but this is specifically VAT I'm talking about and they have been abusing Luxembourgs system for decades. That SES are based there is coincidental.

Ted_YNWA

Why should we have to pay for something that people may not use.

I don't have Saorview or listen to any RTE radio station.

icdg

L1011 wrote: »

Nope. Sky have long abused a loophole where they claimed consumption is in Luxembourg. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248788/Britains-biggest-TV-net-firms-used-Luxembourg-loophole-avoid-80million-tax.html and so on. There was some tightening up recently but they are not paying 23% VAT on all appropriate income here by any means.

I would assume their corporation tax is similarly, eh, "managed" to ensure they pay as little as possible but this is specifically VAT I'm talking about and they have been abusing Luxembourgs system for decades. That SES are based there is coincidental.

Just to be clear; in the very article you quote it mentions:
(1) That the Sky activity run through Luxembourg was Broadband business only
(2) That it moved this business back to the UK in 2010
(3) That the EU VAT rule that allowed Sky to do this was to be changed in 2015 (which it was).

Can we get back to the licence fee discussion please

markfinn

Pay money to watch adverts? And not even current, relevant or interesting shows squeezed in between them?
No, just no.

If you want me to pay for a service then do not expect me to accept a service with advertising on it.

elperello

The current system is very 20th century (or even maybe 19th). Going around trying to find out who has or has not a "receiving apparatus" is a ridiculous waste of time and effort. With advances in technology it will quickly become even more anachronistic than it is at the moment.

It is good for society that we have public broadcasting and don't have to rely solely on the market. Radio and TV are a public good and we should be slow to leave their provision to private interests.

As I said earlier the money should just come from general taxation. Simple and efficient, everyone pays a little. You will still have all the arguments about content etc. but these are another days work.

minikin

Have an extra collection basket at mass.

Allow rte to become a commercial organisation by selling advertising in lieu of a licence fee, then it could pay large fees to its talent... oh wait...

mickoneill31

Cliff Walker wrote: »

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

Where did the 18 euro come from?
That'd be €216 a year. Its currently €160 a year.

LeinsterDub

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Why should we have to pay for something that people may not use.

I don't have Saorview or listen to any RTE radio station.

Yeah I mean my house has never burnt down. Why am I paying for the fire brigade?

Ted_YNWA

LeinsterDub wrote:

Yeah I mean my house has never burnt down. Why am I paying for the fire brigade?

They are being paid out of general taxation, there is not an extra levy for them. Also they charge a callout fee.

SPDUB

markfinn wrote: »

Pay money to watch adverts? And not even current, relevant or interesting shows squeezed in between them?
No, just no.

If you want me to pay for a service then do not expect me to accept a service with advertising on it.

Why not ?

There's just one country IIRC that has a licence fee amd no ads

Charles Babbage

Add it to the property tax. Problem solved.

dudara

Scrap the system. I already pay to watch RTÉ etc via my Virgin Media bill. Why should I pay a TV license? It's arcane at this stage.

blackplum123

Cliff Walker wrote: »

I would look at adding 18 euro monthly to the electricity bill or else to the property tax and council rents.

Why would you pay 18 a month when you can pay it monthly at the minute for 13 euro and a few cent

Charles Babbage

dudara wrote: »

Scrap the system. I already pay to watch RT etc via my Virgin Media bill. Why should I pay a TV license? It's arcane at this stage.

You pay Virgin Media, this does not go to RT , any more than your Virgin broadband bill goes to Netflix.

The Raptor

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It's not tax for owning a TV anymore. It's a tax if you have a TV, radio, mobile phone or broadband and any device capable of using radio, TV or broadband services.

It's just a blanket tax at this stage.

Thought they didn't bring this in yet?

TV and radio, yes but it's not for the use of a mobile phone.

Dont be at yourself

No problem paying it, but the waste in RTE kills me. Salaries aside, the amount spent on sports rights and US imports that could otherwise be picked up by commercial stations is a head scratcher.

mikeym

What annoys me is the people who own tvs and are not on the system.

Could Rte survive on advertisement money alone?

The Raptor

They should offer it as a subscription service and let people who want to watch pay for it.

markfinn

mikeym wrote: »

What annoys me is the people who own tvs and are not on the system.

Could Rte survive on advertisement money alone?

That would depend entirely on what you mean by survive.
Could they carry out all necessary functions of a state broadcasting service? Absolutely. News broadcasts maybe 3 times a day and an emergency broadcast system no-one ever uses.

Could they continue to try (and fail) to be an alternative to competent good TV broadcasting companies? Probably not.

But they're never going to be good anyway, so bare minimalism is the reasonable and correct way to go.

Delta2113

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Add it to the property tax. Problem solved.

- Sadly it really is that simple but it probably wont happen. They would save millions this way on the contract for collection currently with An Post.

Also they could get rid off Inspectors.

Elmo

Delta2113 wrote: »

- Sadly it really is that simple but it probably wont happen. They would save millions this way on the contract for collection currently with An Post.

Also they could get rid off Inspectors.

They could add it to anything as long as collect and the amount is not in the hands of government.

Sam Russell

Current licence costs €160. An Post gets about 5% to collect it. About 15% do not pay it. So net cost should be €160 - 20% is about €128. So a charge of €10 per month would be attractive. This could be added to the electricity bill - if you do not have electricity then you do not pay.

Further funding could come from a small (about €0.0025) charge per text message, or a small fee on the broadband charge based on either data downloaded or on bandwidth available. Or simply a charge on broadband and mobile providers - a levy.

RTE do not just provide TV, they provide news, orchestras, and are the backbone of much of Irish culture.

Maybe we should sell off the paintings in the National Gallery and the books in the National Library and sell off all the treasures in the National Museum. That should keep us going for a few weeks.

The barbarians are at the gates.

minikin

yeah... if only revenue charged v.a.t. on every broadband / tv / phone bill.

Oh wait, it's almost as if we're already paying through the hoop via media taxation for this sub-standard constantly-repeated devoid of original formatted drivel...

When this changes people should happily pay their licence fee. Until such time we should all provide the inspectors 'another exciting opportunity' to see 2008's licence.

Sam Russell

minikin wrote: »

yeah... if only revenue charged v.a.t. on every broadband / tv / phone bill.

What I am talking about is creating a ring-fenced revenue stream for broadcasting and other culture based activity.

Currently RTE gets the lions share but the money is spread about. TV3 got money for 'Red Rock' but usually denies it gets any licence fee money. The system is not perfect but it prevents government interference (well mostly) with RTE.

Agent Smith

1. Scrap it.
2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
3. Sell RTE.

Elmo

Agent Smith wrote: »

1. Scrap it.
2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
3. Sell RTE.

Each channel 3 hours of news content. just news, no drama, no entertainment, no film, no comedy, no variety. I am not defending RTE in any of these areas but by regulating for just News and Current affairs you guaranteed no news during prime time (because regulation just says 3 hours and does give specific hours) with US and UK programming taking up the majority of Prime Time TV.

RTE is worth about 90 million not much more. The land they own is prob worth more than the broadcast service. (taking into consideration prices paid for UTV and TV3 recently).

Regulation like this did work in Australia but it wasn't just about News and Current Affairs, it allowed Australia become the 3rd biggest exported of English Language programming. And even in Australia they have 2 PSB in ABC and SBS.

Sam Russell

Agent Smith wrote: »

1. Scrap it.
2. Mandate Irish Television Stations Must provide 3 hours of news content a day. and 1 hour of educational programing
3. Sell RTE.

Look what happened to UTV, one of the most successful ITV franchises.

They started a station in Ireland to profit from the ITV soaps. It did not work. Parent company of UTV sold out to ITV, the Irish station then sold to TV3 owner.

End result is a collection of rubbish stations relaying British and American programmes with just talking heads the only local content.

RTE 1 still most watched station with quality news, quality current affairs and quality drama and much cultural content - not to mention sport.

With your suggestion, I might just as well flog off the TV and buy a few books.

Dr Turk Turkelton

I can think of nothing better than paying for two orchestra's that in my almost forty years on this earth I've never listened to.
MOD EDIT: Deleted personal remarks about named individual
Yes,the TV licence fee is a great thing.😨

Pawwed Rig

Do nothing. Haven't paid it in years and they are hopeless at enforcement. Long live An Post.

The Cush

L1011 wrote: »

Nope. Sky have long abused a loophole where they claimed consumption is in Luxembourg. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248788/Britains-biggest-TV-net-firms-used-Luxembourg-loophole-avoid-80million-tax.html and so on. There was some tightening up recently but they are not paying 23% VAT on all appropriate income here by any means.

I would assume their corporation tax is similarly, eh, "managed" to ensure they pay as little as possible but this is specifically VAT I'm talking about and they have been abusing Luxembourgs system for decades. That SES are based there is coincidental.

Thread on it here from a few yeas ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057308509&page=4

The Cush

This from the Sunday Times a few weeks ago

Naughten will also bring proposals to government in September to increase the amount of licence fee funding paid by the Department of Social Protection to the national broadcaster, and to restore the full state subsidy to TG4, which would give back the station €9.24m in licence fee revenue.
...
In August 2011, the government decided to stop paying the annual subsidy directly to TG4. Since then the station has been funded from licence fee revenue, using resources that would otherwise have gone into RTÉ programming.

Again in 2011, the government capped the money paid annually to RTÉ by the Department of Social Protection to provide free television licences to pensioners and other welfare clients.

This was €57.2m a year in 2010, and reduced to €52.2m two years ago.

Now Naughten is planning to remove the cap, either completely or by reversing the €5m cut first.
...
He also said the high levels of TV licence evasion needed to be addressed as a matter of urgency

The Cush

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What has electricity got to do with the tv licence?

Several European countries collect their TV licence fee through the electricity bill including Italy, Portugal, Romania, Turkey, Greece.

Elmo

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

I can think of nothing better than paying for two orchestra's that in my almost forty years on this earth I've never listened to.

Well do you suggest closing them?

Dr Turk Turkelton

Elmo wrote: »

Well do you suggest closing them?

Yes.

Elmo

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Yes.

Do think libraries and museums should also be closed also?

Dr Turk Turkelton

Elmo wrote: »

Do think libraries and museums should also be closed also?

Not in the slightest.They provide a great service to the public unlike our national broadcaster which is only another gravy train.
It's full of talentless hacks and bloated up with people on the gravy train like all the other quangos in this country.