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Berlin Q or Bust: Road to sub 2:45

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    In a move that will surprise no-one who read the last couple of posts, I pulled the plug after 4 miles this morning. Just wasn't there, physically or mentally. Felt decent enough but just didn't have the juice to keep going...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Good call. Fair play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    I've been away from boards for a few weeks. Just catching up on things. Belated happy birthday, I don't think I'm too far behind you. Some great training going on here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    healy1835 wrote: »
    In a move that will surprise no-one who read the last couple of posts, I pulled the plug after 4 miles this morning. Just wasn't there, physically or mentally. Felt decent enough but just didn't have the juice to keep going...

    You could of said you were doing a 4m tempo and kept stum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: 9 Miles Easy: 1:13:52 @5:06/km
    Tue: 8 Miles Easy: 1:03:20 @4:55/km
    Thu: 10k Easy: 46:41 @4:40/km
    Fri: 5 Miles Easy: 38:38 @4:48/km

    So yeah, a few things going on at home and work just all sort of blended together to deliver one head melting week. Missed workout on Wednesday and probably wouldn't have worried about it too much or focus too much on how I was feeling if I didn't have the 10 Mile TT looming at the weekend.

    It's funny, there was no focus on either of the TT's. They were in there to give me a little break from the mileage for a couple of weeks and reacquaint myself with a couple of harder efforts befoee returning to decent mileage for a few more weeks.

    Despite this, I found myself getting worried about the 10 miler when it became clear that my running was taking a bit of a hit this week. I should have just knocked it on the head. The advice was to push it to next Wednesday if I wanted, but I didn't really want that as I was looking forward to getting back to the routine of previous weeks' training. (That and I wanted to have a few beers Saturday).

    So I convinced myself I could still pull a low 58 or 57 something out of the bag and set off for the loop in the camp. This, of course, despite the fact I had swore not to run on it again after realising I'd had enough of it mid-TT last weekend :)

    Plan was to go through 5 miles in around 29:20 and try and kick on from there. Went through 4 miles in 23:37 but was starting to feel pretty flat. Was feeling good for first 3 but gradually the thought of doing 6 more of them just did not appeal on any level.

    Pulled up just shy of 7k and headed straight for the car and drove home. Was a little annoyed for a while but I came around fairly quickly.

    Had my few beers watching the rugby and soccer and decompressed the brain. Bit tired this morning but was up early with the kids and went for a nice walk.

    By afternoon was sufficiently recovered to go for a run which I hadn't planned on.

    13.6k Easy: 1:08:47 @5:02/km

    68.6k for the week. Not a great week, but they can't all be knocked out of the park.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    You could of said you were doing a 4m tempo and kept stum.

    Obviously hasn't been reading my log! :D

    But seriously, good decision - you have nothing to prove at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: 14k Easy: 1:07:16 @4:47/km

    Headed out in the early afternoon with an 8/10 mile range in my head. Threw on the Hyperion Tempo's for this one as they were looking a bit lonely on my shoe carousel.

    Don't get me wrong, they're a nice shoe, but it's just hard to see what I'd use them for. They're a bit harsh for easy/recovery pace which I'd generally throw the Epic Reacts on for.

    For a track session they're not in the same league as the Zoom Streaks. Longer intervals or tempo efforts...Endorphin Speeds all day. They are a nice shoe though. Might throw them on for a tempo run in the next while, just to give them a fair hearing.

    Tue: 10 Miles Relaxed: 1:13:11 @4:33/km

    What. A. Morning. Tried out a newish route and the pace just naturally found itself. The 10 miles flew by and legs were in decent knick, obviously feeling the benefits of last weeks light load.

    Wed: 14 Miles: 1 wu/3x3 Miles @6:10 off a mile recovery/1 c/d

    Splits: 18:27, 18:24, 18:19

    It's amazing how you're never really more than one good session away from feeling good about your running again :) threw a singlet on :o and did one loop around the bog, followed by a couple of Lidl loops. Felt decent on the first 3 miles, better on the second and amazing on the final set. A nice little confidence boost after a ropey previous week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Good bounce back!

    Was feeling good about my own session today, then came on here to ready your 3x training 5ks at my 5k TT pace :(:o But then, Comparison is the thief of joy :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Good bounce back!

    Was feeling good about my own session today, then came on here to ready your 3x training 5ks at my 5k TT pace :(:o But then, Comparison is the thief of joy :D

    Tks :) however, I would make two observations. From what I've seen in your training since we've been virtual friends :) would clearly show your potential is highest at the longer distances. And secondly, that workout you did today, would suggest that your 5k TT pace is going to be quite a bit quicker than you may have bargained for :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Was going to comment last week but didnt want to go all deep and philosophical :D

    The work/life/kids/running balance thing is no joke and a slight tilt in one direction can throw things way off and have you thinking you've lost all fitness and there's a long road back, to suddenly tilting slightly in the other direction and you could take on anyone! :D

    Seems like you just tilted things back in the right direction slightly. The beers helped no doubt.

    As for the hyperions - you know there's always a good home down in Limerick for shoes you dont like (at the right price of course) :D:D:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Good bounce back!

    Was feeling good about my own session today, then came on here to ready your 3x training 5ks at my 5k TT pace :(:o But then, Comparison is the thief of joy :D

    If you're averaging 5.45 per/mile for a 4x1M session then your 5k TT pace aint 6.10!

    I'm not sure if you're self depreciating or the ultimate sandbagger.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    If you're averaging 5.45 per/mile for a 4x1M session then your 5k TT pace aint 6.10!

    I'm not sure if you're self depreciating or the ultimate sandbagger.....

    Maybe it's just Limerick blokes:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Maybe it's just Limerick blokes:pac:

    I'll have to root it out but if i recall, the ultimate sandbaggers in the Boards TT's last year were predominantly from "up the country" :pac::pac::pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Tks :) however, I would make two observations. From what I've seen in your training since we've been virtual friends :) would clearly show your potential is highest at the longer distances. And secondly, that workout you did today, would suggest that your 5k TT pace is going to be quite a bit quicker than you may have bargained for :)

    I'm working on new paces. Its nothing until I execute some TT or event.
    If you're averaging 5.45 per/mile for a 4x1M session then your 5k TT pace aint 6.10!

    I'm not sure if you're self depreciating or the ultimate sandbagger.....

    Evidence will show I'm not sandbagging. My last TT end of Jan was 18:41 and I hit 96.4% effort so it was a fair go. Whats different to this time last year is I'm not trying to push mileage. Just keep steady, get sessions done, foam roll, eat less frequently and sleep more. Ingredients I hope will execute lifetime 5 and 10k TTs in the near future.

    anyhoo, not to derail. Just wanted to acknowledge J's great positive mental attitude to bounce back quickly


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Evidence will show I'm not sandbagging. My last TT end of Jan was 18:41 and I hit 96.4% effort so it was a fair go. Whats different to this time last year is I'm not trying to push mileage. Just keep steady, get sessions done, foam roll, eat less frequently and sleep more. Ingredients I hope will execute lifetime 5 and 10k TTs in the near future.

    anyhoo, not to derail. Just wanted to acknowledge J's great positive mental attitude to bounce back quickly

    Plus you have the supershoes ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Just keep steady, get sessions done, foam roll, eat less frequently and sleep more



    KISS :)

    In comparison to some training log derailments I've seen on here in the past, this is a quite welcome one ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thu: 11.7k Recovery: 57:50 @4:57/km

    Fri: 8 Miles Easy: 1:04:35 @5:01/km

    Strava tells me these runs took place but I'm struggling to remember a whole heap about them.

    Sat: 20 Miles inc 5 Miles off/on/off/on

    Brought this forward to Saturday as I wanted to be around on Easter Sunday morning for egg hunting duties :) I also planned on having a few beers Saturday.

    General plan of action for the 'off' and 'on' paces was in the regions of 6:50/6:30 per mile. I'd dropped a couple of water bottles off the previous evening so I set off looking forward to enjoying the amazing weather.

    When you have to do a LR on a Saturday morning it always makes me appreciate the quieter environs of a Sunday run. Whether it was stopping at busy road crossings, waiting on Tractors to turn, avoiding busy paths and somehow managing to get held up by the same funeral twice, first as it went into the Church and also, about 90 mins later, as it entered the graveyard.

    Wore the Speeds for this. I'm a broken record at this stage but they're just a beautiful shoe to run in. I see Djemba Djemba banging out some serious TT's in the Pros....might take a plunge there.

    Found myself having to hold back on the first 5 miles 'off' , with the pace regularly creeping up towards the 'on' target. 6:53, 6:44, 6:46, 6:47 & 6:48. As the second 5 mile section kicked off I only then realised that I'd be running the last 3 miles of it up through the town. Navigated it decent enough but the crowds and traffic made it a little tricky. Was glad to get out towards the Curragh and back to the 5 miles 'off' again. Splits for those 5 miles were 6:25, 6:25, 6:25, 6:27, 6:26.

    Popped a gel and took on about 300ml of water just after 10 miles. 2nd mile of this 'off' section had a tough hill that I would use on occasion for hill sessions. This kind of knocked the stuffing out of me and my mind started to have doubts about finishing the final 5 miles at the desired pace. Didn't chase anything over the next couple miles and just let the pace slide a little to ensure that I'd be in decent knick for the last section. Splits were 6:50, 7:06 :o, 6:52, 6:48, 6:57.

    Onto the last section now and I knew I'd have to work hard. There was also another nasty climb to negotiate, but as the pace got upped I started to feel better and once I got up the hill I knew I was gonna finish strong and put in an effort that would make me deserving of a few beers later on :)
    Splits were 6:26, 6:40, 6:25, 6:25, 6:22.

    20 Miles in 2:13:08 @4:08/km

    Sun: 11.4k: 56:25 @4:58/km

    Tender enough after a few too many IPAs rhe previous evening, but my trusty Berocca/Alka Seltzer combo saw me put in a decent performance in our Easter Egg hunt and then I took to the roads for an easy effort.

    121k for the week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: 9 Miles Easy: 1:09:10 @4:46/km

    I was really not tuned into any weather forecast prior to heading out on this run. Threw on a light gillet type thing as it 'looked' a little chilly out. The horizontal snow shower about 3 miles in was a particular highlight.
    Run passed quickly enough listening to the Chairman of the Boards on the Runner Beans pod. One of our greatest ever sportspersons.

    Tue: Approx 11 Miles inc 6x1 mile 'relaxed' off a couple of mins.
    Not a big session compared to some recent ones I've done on the track. Focus was just on turnover and keeping the efforts relaxed. Plan was to keep them between 6:00 - 6:10 pace, but definitely not dipping under 6 min pace.
    Watch died about halfway through but I was already en route to the lidl loop when it happened, so I was able to gauge the mile on distances pretty easily once on the loop.

    Wed: MLR 15 Miles: 1:36:57 @4:01/km

    Prescribed pace was in the 6:30 region. Wasn't 100% sure how the body was feeling heading out, but after a 6:42 first mile, I quickly settled into the pace. Decided I'd do three circuits of the bigger bog loop, which is about 5 miles in total with a couple of tasty drags in there to keep things interesting :)

    Today was just one of those days when it all feels easy. Was cruising around really and it's during runs like this that the mind starts to wander and get excited about prospective races, paces, targets etc. I love days like this...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Sorry if I've asked this before and bigger sorry if I've missed this as part of your weekly updates but I only just noticed now - two 'big' enough sessions back to back there. Is that the norm for you and any idea what the thinking is behind it? Marathon pace miles on tired legs from the day before?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Sorry if I've asked this before and bigger sorry if I've missed this as part of your weekly updates but I only just noticed now - two 'big' enough sessions back to back there. Is that the norm for you and any idea what the thinking is behind it? Marathon pace miles on tired legs from the day before?

    Pretty much. Session on Tuesday wasn't really a heavy one to be fair, and today's pace was around MP+10 secs. But I know what you're saying. A good few of the MLR have followed sessions, but today's was the fastest by a bit.

    Basic plan is to widen the base, get more comfortable in and around that 2:45 MP and enter the marathon block as strong as possible. Anything else between now and then is a bit of a bonus :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Pretty much. Session on Tuesday wasn't really a heavy one to be fair, and today's pace was around MP+10 secs. But I know what you're saying. A good few of the MLR have followed sessions, but today's was the fastest by a bit.

    Basic plan is to widen the base, get more comfortable in and around that 2:45 MP and enter the marathon block as strong as possible. Anything else between now and then is a bit of a bonus :)

    what do you think your HM pace will be around the 1st week in May - asking for a friend. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    what do you think your HM pace will be around the 1st week in May - asking for a friend. :cool:

    Well, leaving aside the variables involved in running TT's in the current climate and not quite being sure what sort of humour one would rock up to the line in......I'd be looking at...

    A+ : 77:XX
    A : <78:30
    B : Sub 79
    C : PB- <79:40

    If I had a day like I felt yesterday, then all bets are off :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thu: 10k Recovery: 52:23 @5:14/km

    Shuffled around for this one. Was gonna go a bit further but had a small window before the United game to fit this one in.

    Fri: 7 Miles Easy: 55:17 @4:54/km

    Easy miles listening to David O'Doherty and Paul Kimmage on Second Captains. Great interview/chat.

    Sat: 21 Miles Relaxed: 2:22:45 @4:13/km

    Had 21/22 miles on the plan. Figured out a route that took in my bog loop and Lidl loop and came in at 21 miles. Arranged to meet a buddy after 10 Miles for him to do some MP miles. This broke up the run nicely and was happy to do the first 10 with my own tunes out the bog and then meet him to head to the Lidl loop.
    'Relaxed' is the term used by my buddy/coach to describe certain paces. I've seen plenty of local lads in this part of the world bang out what are basically TT's and call them tempos and that's not what I'm trying to do here; misrepresent effort levels in an attempt to look better.

    'Relaxed' is still a decent effort, but I suppose if I want to break 2:45 then 20 seconds a kilometer slower should feel relatively relaxed. And it did to be fair. Felt great over the last couple of miles considering I had put some decent work in mid week too.

    Like many others on here I'm in good nick, but just have to stay patient and wait for some opportunities to arise later in the year.
    Great morning. Will have a few beers watching the sport now for the evening happy with my weeks work.

    Edit. Swashbuckler informed me on Strava that I passed 1000 miles for the year today too :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    I had questions over the definition of relaxed after seeing your Strava but thankfully you addressed them all! Was wondering how you possibly judge relaxed for a 21mile run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    When you're explaining why 6.48 is easy, you are in a good place.

    I also found SB's fact a cool piece of Strava Geekdom (that's a compliment 😀).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Strava stalking more like!


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Can't remember which marathon you have targeted for end of year (apart from DCM) but will you keep to the Berlin Q time of 2:45 as a target? You're probably in sub 2:40 shape at least at the moment so how ambitious will you be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice work, J. In good shape is quite the understatement. Fingers crossed that an event will materialise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Treviso wrote: »
    Can't remember which marathon you have targeted for end of year (apart from DCM) but will you keep to the Berlin Q time of 2:45 as a target? You're probably in sub 2:40 shape at least at the moment so how ambitious will you be?

    Right now I'm not thinking of anything else other than sub 2:45. If training block and maybe a 10 Miler or HM suggested something a bit quicker then maybe there might be a decision, but no, happy to target 2:45!

    I'm entered in Amsterdam, but not overly hopeful of that materialising. Maybe a scaled down DCM or something in the UK before the year's end. Like everyone else I'd prefer to not have to wait until next Spring. San Sebastian, Seville....anything that opens up will be looked at!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    I am now entered in not one, not two, but three marathons this October :) Amsterdam, Manchester & Dublin...You'd wonder what's the best chance. Amsterdam #1 choice obviously, but I'm desperate at this stage.


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