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M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spacetweek wrote: »
    and their hatred for cyclists and pedestrians. .

    If anything there is a hatred of the virtually non-existent enforcement of regulations for cyclists (and pedestrians, to a very limited extent due to the limited regulations there); nothing more.

    I can count on one hand the number of times I've nearly been mown down by a motorist - twice at the one traffic light which used to be the first a driver would encounter coming off a motorway.

    I can't count on all my extremities the times I've nearly been mown down by a cyclist and I run out of fingers counting the times I've been hit by a cyclist at lights in the Docklands alone - there are a number of junctions where I have seen 100% of a substantial number of bikes sailing through red lights with green pedestrian sequences.

    When we start seeing cyclists getting appropriate fines (and punishment in default) for their actions, that "hatred" will go away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    This is a thread about the N11 widening , not a cycling thread ,there are loads of those one boards where you can have a go at each other


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Smoked Tuna


    BoatMad wrote: »
    This is a thread about the N11 widening , not a cycling thread ,there are loads of those one boards where you can have a go at each other

    Yes, 100% please, the whole of last page was also all about cycling as far as I remember!!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    Whilst cycling is slightly relevant to this thread, general discussion of cyclists is not allowed here. There are other places on the site to discuss cycling. The only cycling discussion permitted here is in relation to cyclist facilities in the event of the N11 being redesignated motorway after being upgraded. No discussion of cyclist behavior from now on



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    WCC have a document with cycle routes along the N11 south from where the M11 ends at Bray to Kilmac. A route from the GLenview to Greystones also, and none from the Glenview to Kilmac, suggesting a motorway or elimination of hard shoulders is planned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    WCC have a document with cycle routes along the N11 south from where the M11 ends at Bray to Kilmac. A route from the GLenview to Greystones also, and none from the Glenview to Kilmac, suggesting a motorway or elimination of hard shoulders is planned.

    that document is WCC's bit of the National Cycle Network - none of the proposed network is on the hard shoulders of DCs as they're horrible to cycle on even where it is permitted.

    The lines along the N11 at Bray and Kilmac are cycle lanes on the proposed collector roads that are outlined in the document linked in post #31, not on the N11 itself.

    Even with the collector roads and closing of accesses it will be tricky to upgrade the N11 to M with the mess at Kilmac and stuff like this


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    loyatemu wrote: »
    that document is WCC's bit of the National Cycle Network - none of the proposed network is on the hard shoulders of DCs as they're horrible to cycle on even where it is permitted.

    The lines along the N11 at Bray and Kilmac are cycle lanes on the proposed collector roads that are outlined in the document linked in post #31, not on the N11 itself.

    Even with the collector roads and closing of accesses it will be tricky to upgrade the N11 to M with the mess at Kilmac and stuff like this

    single vehicle access is not the issue, the issue is merely the slow down due to the issues at Kilmac,


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,161 ✭✭✭prunudo


    This popped up on my fb feed
    https://www.facebook.com/Kilmacanogue-says-NO-to-major-new-roadway-989303001179659/

    Looking at Google maps there could be a route through farmland and not on the little Sugarloaf as the group says but I'm unsure what the actual route is. Will have to do some more digging on the wicklow coco site.
    If it means the houses, units and garage entrances are closed off and given access from this new road I think it's a good idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    jvan wrote: »
    This popped up on my fb feed
    https://www.facebook.com/Kilmacanogue-says-NO-to-major-new-roadway-989303001179659/

    Looking at Google maps there could be a route through farmland and not on the little Sugarloaf as the group says but I'm unsure what the actual route is. Will have to do some more digging on the wicklow coco site.
    If it means the houses, units and garage entrances are closed off and given access from this new road I think it's a good idea.
    It's a load of nonsense.

    The road would skirt around the bottom of the Little Sugarloaf from the Woodies roundabout to the roundabout on the southbound side of the Kilmacanoge junction, roughly following the line between the farmland and the open heathland. It does not go "over" or "across" the Little Sugarloaf at all, as claimed.

    The person behind this campaign just so happens to live in a house on Bohilla Lane just off the Kilmac roundabout so the road would go right past her house, which is why I assume she's campaigning against it, rather than for any altruistic reasons.

    There's some maps on her website here ... http://www.thisroadispointless.com/


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,161 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Alun wrote: »
    It's a load of nonsense.

    The road would skirt around the bottom of the Little Sugarloaf from the Woodies roundabout to the roundabout on the southbound side of the Kilmacanoge junction, roughly following the line between the farmland and the open heathland. It does not go "over" or "across" the Little Sugarloaf at all, as claimed.

    The person behind this campaign just so happens to live in a house on Bohilla Lane just off the Kilmac roundabout so the road would go right past her house, which is why I assume she's campaigning against it, rather than for any altruistic reasons.

    There's some maps on her website here ... http://www.thisroadispointless.com/

    Only problem with that road that I can see is that it won't solve the problem of the private and garage access directly to the n11


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    jvan wrote: »
    Only problem with that road that I can see is that it won't solve the problem of the private and access directly to the n11
    As far as I can see it's just one small part of a larger scheme outlined in the Wicklow CC Development Plan, so shouldn't be viewed in isolation. I haven't had the time, or indeed the inclination, to download and read through the entire plan though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    jvan wrote: »
    Only problem with that road that I can see is that it won't solve the problem of the private and garage access directly to the n11

    I think the plan is to move the exit from the garage to the east of the garage to the new road. Alun has mentioned the council CPOing land upthread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    On one of the plans is looks like they have a service road running along the N11 for access to the houses and Topaz.


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    This looks like a sensible plan to me if all of the development on the east side of the N11 through Kilmac is forced to change its access to the new link road. There are no real issues on the west side.
    It would allow for less speed restrictions on the N11 and would make the stretch along by the southbound service station safer.

    It would also take a reasonable chunk of the Bray-bound traffic off the N11 too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Yes, I think the idea is also to take some of the pressure off Hill's roundabout too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    Bray Head wrote: »
    This looks like a sensible plan to me if all of the development on the east side of the N11 through Kilmac is forced to change its access to the new link road. There are no real issues on the west side.
    It would allow for less speed restrictions on the N11 and would make the stretch along by the southbound service station safer.

    It would also take a reasonable chunk of the Bray-bound traffic off the N11 too.

    Yeah I think they may also be hoping all the traffic choking Windgates out of Greystones into Bray would go through Glen of the Downs and up the new link road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    Yeah I think they may also be hoping all the traffic choking Windgates out of Greystones into Bray would go through Glen of the Downs and up the new link road.

    there's a longer term plan for a Northern Access Road into Greystones from Kilmac. That actually would go over the side of the Little Sugar Loaf.

    This new road from Bray to Kilmac appears to go through Brennanstown Riding School, they've already posted about it on their facebook page, encouraging people to sign the petition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    loyatemu wrote: »
    there's a longer term plan for a Northern Access Road into Greystones from Kilmac. That actually would go over the side of the Little Sugar Loaf.
    Despite the 2 being linked by a dual carriageway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Despite the 2 being linked by a dual carriageway?
    Which is a good distance to the south of Greystones itself. Nobody living in, say Redford Park, who wants to get onto the N11 northbound is going to drive through Greystones town or Killincarrig heading in the wrong direction to get to that road, only to have to head back the way they've just driven. It's just shy of 7km from the Blacklion traffic lights to the Bray South junction, 16km if you go via Greystones town and aforementioned dual carriageway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,161 ✭✭✭prunudo


    As far as I know this northern access route would link up from Blacklion/Redford to Glenview flyover, so again wouldn't be near the slopes of the Little Sugarloaf.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    jvan wrote: »
    As far as I know this northern access route would link up from Blacklion/Redford to Glenview flyover, so again wouldn't be near the slopes of the Little Sugarloaf.

    actually there's no confirmed route for this proposed NAR; just a line in the local area development plan:
    Reserve a land corridor to provide for a new road from the R761 at Sea View to
    lands within AP1:Coolagad Action Plan. The new road shall provide local access to
    zoned lands within the lifetime of the plan and shall, subject to feasibility, need and
    design, in the long term provide a northern access route from Greystones to the N11.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Seems like a very useful new route to me.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Report due on this shortly from TII. Upgrade definately warranted from report

    http://www.thejournal.ie/n11-traffic-congestion-3120201-Dec2016/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    just read the article, nothing will be built for years anyway.

    they think adding more lanes, that will just get choked with more traffic is the solution? how about the luas to bray, construct park and rides etc? at this stage, anything road based in the GDA should be cancelled and the money funnelled into rail...

    are there any more expensive jokes planned like the gort to turm motorway or enniscorty bypass? Anything road based that isnt the galways bypass or cork - limerick motorway, should be put on hold immediately!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    just read the article, nothing will be built for years anyway.

    they think adding more lanes, that will just get choked with more traffic is the solution? how about the luas to bray, construct park and rides etc? at this stage, anything road based in the GDA should be cancelled and the money funnelled into rail...

    are there any more expensive jokes planned like the gort to turm motorway or enniscorty bypass? Anything road based that isnt the galways bypass or cork - limerick motorway, should be put on hold immediately!

    This is what I say too.

    Political focus is on upgrading arterial routes in Dublin, all feeding into the M50 which can't be upgraded, and the main rail discussion in political circles is Athenry-Claremorris.

    ??????

    N11 does need to be sorted from Bray to Coyne's Cross, safety issues and all the accesses need closing, but it should be done after there's a green line extension for starters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I'd agree but I'd add my pet project which is a bridge at Palmerston for the N4. Won't make too much of a different inbound but outbound it would benefit everybody.

    Luas and P&R sites would help here. Interesting that the congestion is still there even though Bray and Greystones are very well served by rail already.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I would agree with you with the exception of the Merrion gates upgrade. That needs to be built and it benefits, motor, rail, cyclist, pedestrian and some residents. It will also improve traffic around Vincent's hospital which is important.

    Merrion Gates definately needs to be done. It'll be very beneficial and won't lead to a massive increase in traffic.

    Upgrades on the M1, N2, N3, N4, N7 and N11 however will just add to the existing mess. Lots of rail upgrades will solve the problems there, widening is just kicking the can down the road.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I'd agree but I'd add my pet project which is a bridge at Palmerston for the N4. Won't make too much of a different inbound but outbound it would benefit everybody.

    Luas and P&R sites would help here. Interesting that the congestion is still there even though Bray and Greystones are very well served by rail already.

    Very poorly served unless going to the city centre/along the DART line. No access to Sandyford/Ballymount etc without going in and back out


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    If we want to talk about ridiculous projects, it's the 8k planned to be spent on every person in Galway for their glorified relief road.

    I'd prefer to see dualling of bray to greystones train line,right up to the mouths of the tunnel, which would allow for DARTs from Greystones every 20 minutes. Would be cheaper than Cherry wood to Bray LUAS too (I suspect).

    This scheme is a good idea but I'd only worry about 3 lanes on the M11 between the M50 and the next junction south.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭MichealD


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    just read the article, nothing will be built for years anyway.

    they think adding more lanes, that will just get choked with more traffic is the solution? how about the luas to bray, construct park and rides etc? at this stage, anything road based in the GDA should be cancelled and the money funnelled into rail...

    are there any more expensive jokes planned like the gort to turm motorway or enniscorty bypass? Anything road based that isnt the galways bypass or cork - limerick motorway, should be put on hold immediately!

    The 'expensive joke' bypassing Enniscorthy will remove the majority of the daily 15000 vehicles ( 2016 AADT https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6 ) including a high volume of HGV traffic from Rosslare from a single carriage way road crossing two bridges in a town centre urban setting containing multiple pedestrian & traffic light controlled crossings, roundabouts and bus stops which results in delays of up to an hour to travel 1.5km from north to south of the town at peak times.

    Incidentally this single carriageway section of the N11 has a higher traffic count than any count on the Cork-Limerick road past the Blarney counter (which is dual carriageway if I remember correctly).

    There are many projects in need of investment accross the country but as a shovel ready project the commencement of this particular one this year will be welcomed by many.

    I will agree with the comment on rail investment (or lack of). We have trains leaving Rosslare for Dublin 20 minutes before ferries arrive and a travel time by rail from Enniscorthy to Connolly of nearly two and half hours to cover 115kms.

    (Apologies for going off topic)


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