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Official GAA Proposal of New Championship Structure

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    #32
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Can you give me a quick idea of how P1 changes this? I think I'm missing something...

    Actually with Kerry always being in the semi final they'd still get to round 3 of the qualifiers. I think the seeding in the munster would have to go for this to really work and it's not for central council to tell. Munster how to run its championship.


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    #33
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    I dont mind the idea of the group stage QF, indeed its somewhat enticing to have these games at provincial grounds. But the QF onwards werent the issue whatsoever, they were fine as they were.

    The issue was the lopsided nature of the championship up to that point, i.e the provincial championships. This does nothing to rectify any of the problems to my eye.

    Third small thing id like changed is to stop the provincial losers going into round 4 of the qualifiers. They should go in at round 3 and have the playoff between qualifiers at rd 4. Far too much of a reward for getting to (and losing) a provincial final at the moment


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    #34
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Jayop wrote: »
    Actually with Kerry always being in the semi final they'd still get to round 3 of the qualifiers. I think the seeding in the munster would have to go for this to really work and it's not for central council to tell. Munster how to run its championship.

    That seeding is a ****ing disgrace.


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    #35
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Does nothing for the inequitable route to last 12 or 8. Some teams win 1 game to get to last 12, others win 2 and you're in last 8. Whilst other counties could win 3 tough games and only make last 12.

    It's better but for such a radical overhaul it should result in something fairer.

    Will also mean more expense and longer trips for supporters.


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    #36
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    keane2097 wrote: »
    That seeding is a ****ing disgrace.

    It sure is.

    That they bring it in and toss it out every so often shows it up for the farce it is.

    Little did they think that Tipp would win against Cork so no doubt it'll be knocked on the head soon enough.


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    #37
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    The prize for getting through the qualifiers now is massive for everyone. Even the weak counties will be seeing a group stage as a prize in itself. The problem with the qualifiers now is they are stale.

    Take sligo for example, a connaught isn't realistically out of their reach so the supporter prefers the provincial games as they have some hope of a prize, once they get to the qualifiers the only prize for them is getting beat in a quarter final. The fun and adventure has gone from the qualifiers and a run to r4 isn't seem as an achievement any more.

    This could really inject some freshness into it.


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    #38
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Does nothing for the inequitable route to last 12 or 8. Some teams win 1 game to get to last 12, others win 2 and you're in last 8. Whilst other counties could win 3 tough games and only make last 12.

    It's better but for such a radical overhaul it should result in something fairer.

    Will also mean more expense and longer trips for supporters.

    Baby steps.

    The end goal is the complete abandonment of the provincial championships as a route to the AI Championship. This way you get people used to new ideas and better games at the latter end.

    It took long enough for the qualifier series to happen and it took long enough for this to happen.

    Baby steps.


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    #39
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    More expense for supporters isn't really true though, and even if it is then it's because they're watching better games.

    For Kerry take the quarter final stage. As it stands they currently have to go to CP for a dead duck game most years. Now they'll have one game at CP that's got a fair chance of being good, one game down in munster and one game somewhere else.

    So while it's two more games there's only traveling to one more.


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    #40
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Baby steps.

    The end goal is the complete abandonment of the provincial championships as a route to the AI Championship. This way you get people used to new ideas and better games at the latter end.

    It took long enough for the qualifier series to happen and it took long enough for this to happen.

    Baby steps.

    And we all get a bit of novelty and craic in the meantime.


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    #41
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    BonnieSituation wrote: »



    Why would you get rid of the league? The league is great.



    /QUOTE]

    With his suggestion I'd get rid of the league as it's played at the wrong time of the year and it would have a seaosn that is far too long with no break for the players.

    Play the league in summer and I agree it would be great.Football needs to be played almost exclusively in the summer.


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    #42
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    BonnieSituation wrote: »



    Why would you get rid of the league? The league is great.



    /QUOTE]

    With his suggestion I'd get rid of the league as it's played at the wrong time of the year and it would have a seaosn that is far too long with no break for the players.

    Play the league in summer and I agree it would be great.Football needs to be played almost exclusively in the summer.

    You can't squeeze all the football into one period. Mental.

    Leave the league alone. They finally settled on a simple straightforward format.


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    #43
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    It sure is.

    That they bring it in and toss it out every so often shows it up for the farce it is.

    Little did they think that Tipp would win against Cork so no doubt it'll be knocked on the head soon enough.

    Not a hope it's going to be knocked on the head anytime soon - no way will Tipp, Clare, Waterford and Limerick allow it.

    At the moment it protects the 2 weakest teams from getting hammerings and it gives Clare and Tipp a very decent route to progress.


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    #44
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    I think this is only going to make the gap between the bigger teams and the smaller teams greater.

    It's going to do absolutely nothing for the weakest teams I don't think the home advantage bit and the fact that some revenue is going to be ring-fenced is going to be enough to convince the weaker teams to back this.


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    #45
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Jayop wrote: »
    More expense for supporters isn't really true though, and even if it is then it's because they're watching better games.

    For Kerry take the quarter final stage. As it stands they currently have to go to CP for a dead duck game most years. Now they'll have one game at CP that's got a fair chance of being good, one game down in munster and one game somewhere else.

    So while it's two more games there's only traveling to one more.

    But paying for 2 more as well.


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    #46
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Overall I think this is a good solution to a lot of problems. I don't see the need for semi finals after the group quarters, would it be better if the top two went straight into the final? One of the big issues with the current system is the lack of time for club games, that needs to be addressed


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    #47
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Sounds ridiculous to me! Instead of simplifying the All Ireland champs, they're proposing to add more games and make it more complicated.

    Widely reported that attendances are falling, the provincial competitions are broadly predictable, the weaker counties are getting weaker and so on.

    The above will result in more games (more gate receipts & income to GAA, though falling attendances will counteract that) and stack the odds even more towards the stronger counties.

    The real answer is not rocket science: let all the teams enter one open draw and once a team is bet, that's it. By all means have a separate competition for those knocked out in the first round. That at least would shake things up and concentrate the mind. You'd have the real excitement of a knock out competition.


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    #48
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    It would make it much more interesting if the top team from each group contested the All Ireland final and they scrapped the semi completely, this would more or less make each of the group games do or die.


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    #49
    willietherock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭willietherock


    I cant see how this could be anything other than a nightmare wrt club fixtures in the dual counties in particular.


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    #50
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    doc_17 wrote: »
    But paying for 2 more as well.

    No one has a gun to their head. If I was from Kerry or Dublin I'd love this because it increases to amount of good games from 2 to 4. Surely that's what fans want.

    The only drawback I can see from an Ulster perspective is its a tough run from the preliminary round.

    4 Ulster games
    3 round robin games
    2 knock out games

    9 games and to go that route you can afford to lose none. Maybe you might get away with one loss in the round robin but with only 3 games it would need to be a loss to the team that wins it. And beat the other two.


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    #51
    Padkir
    Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Padkir


    Padkir wrote: »
    I think it's a brilliant idea. Nothing too drastic; keeps provincial championships which still mean something but increases the number of potential bigger games at the business end and, as a few pointed out, brings a few of these to provincial grounds which would be fantastic. I just hope that they wouldn't bail out when the Dubs have to travel to somewhere with say 10-15k capacity and decide to move it somewhere else to take in more money.

    Some strong positives and no negatives (unless I'm missing something). People talk about dead rubbers and one-sided games, etc. You're going to get these regardless as some teams are just miles better than others; so not much that can be done about that.

    Meant to say also that it would mean someone who gets put out early in the province and then goes on a run will go through a serious number of games to get to a final, but I think that's good too as it might focus the mind early on in the summer.


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    #52
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    With so many big empty palaces around the country we might see the odd big crowd in them.


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    #53
    ahlookit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭ahlookit


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    I think this is only going to make the gap between the bigger teams and the smaller teams greater.

    It's going to do absolutely nothing for the weakest teams I don't think the home advantage bit and the fact that some revenue is going to be ring-fenced is going to be enough to convince the weaker teams to back this.

    Its going to give more games and more revenue to the top 8 teams in the country, while doing nothing for the other 23 (or 25 if you count NY and London) .

    If, as someone suggested this is the first baby step to removing the provincial system and having groups of 4 at the early stages instead then it's progress. Otherwise it'll just be the rich getting richer.


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    #54
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Just to clarify, 'proposal 1' is a change to the qualifiers while 'proposal 2' is a change to the QFs onwards - so these would both be applied if the new format went ahead.

    I was confused the first time I read that so just in case anyone else happens to be also.

    Proposal 1 just gives D3 & D4 teams a bit of an advantage in the early qualifier rounds.

    I'm still seriously confused


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    #55
    iDave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    Not much incentive to be in Division 2 is there.


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    #56
    wally79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭wally79


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Thats a good suggestion aswell.Although it would mean the legaue would be gone (which may be no bad thing anyway).

    Use the league as a way of seeding the groups. Might mean the league being taken more seriously


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    #57
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    smaller divisions in the league would also help


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    #58
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    when are club games going to be played in the calendar?


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    #59
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    wally79 wrote: »
    Use the league as a way of seeding the groups. Might mean the league being taken more seriously

    The groups will be seeded with 2 provincial winners and 2 qualifiers in each. Beyond that no seeding is needed.


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    #60
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Basically it amounts to more Dublin games in Croke Park


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    #61
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Basically it amounts to more Dublin games in Croke Park

    Or you could look at it as a massive increase in Dublin games out of Croker. At least 1 per year is a huge jump from the current 1 in every 5 or 6 years.


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