Official GAA Proposal of New Championship Structure

keane2097

Well this came out of nowhere!

Just reading through it now...

http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/proposal-the-format-the-all-ireland-sfc/

GAA Ard Stiúrthóir Páraic Duffy has produced a far-reaching proposal on how best to restructure the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship and condense our calendar of inter-county games to give our club championships more room to breathe.

The Ard Stiúrthoir's proposal seeks to present a modest adjustment to the championship format that would produce a more exciting senior football championship within the current provincial championship structure and in a way that should not have a negative impact on the playing of county club championships.

The proposal will add eight extra matches to the provincial and All-Ireland senior football championship programme. However, when one allows for the abolition of the Allianz League semi-finals, the increase in the overall annual inter-county senior football programme is reduced to six matches.

Also, tighter scheduling and a revised policy on replays can bring improvements to the situations that affect the scheduling of club fixtures and the availability of inter-county players to clubs.

The proposal seeks to replace the quarter-final stage of the Championship with a group stage contested by the four provincial champions and the four round 4 qualifier winners. Pitting the eight best teams in the country against one another in this way would increase the number of high-quality matches at the height of the summer when playing conditions are optimal.

The new structure would provide a more exacting pathway to the All-Ireland final: the finalists will have had to compete with three of the best teams in the country at the group stage, followed by a semi-final with a top-four team that came through the same test. This will have the effect of ensuring that the finalists will have been equally tested and that the two best teams in the country contest the All-Ireland final.

Both All-Ireland Semi-Finals would be played over the one weekend which should generate greater excitement and also ensure both teams have the same period of time to prepare for the All-Ireland Final.

Under the Ard Stiúrthoir's proposal, the format of the All-Ireland senior football championship would be as follows:

PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONSHIPS: Knock-out format as at present.

ALL-IRELAND QUALIFIER SERIES

Round 1: Sixteen teams that do not qualify for provincial semi-finals

Round 2: Eight round 1 winners play eight defeated provincial semi-finalists

Round 3: Eight round 2 winners play each other on an open-draw basis

Round 4: Four round 3 winners play four provincial runners-up

Proposal 1:

(i) A Division 3 or 4 team drawn against a Division 1 or 2 team in rounds one, two or three of the qualifiers will be granted an automatic home-venue advantage.

(ii) The format of ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides to the qualifier draw will be ended.

QUARTER-FINAL STAGE

Proposal 2:

The current quarter-final stage of the championship to be replaced by a Group Stage, contested by the four provincial champions and the four round 4 qualifier winners.

The group stage will be organised on a league basis with two groups of four teams, with each team playing the other three teams once.

After the group stage is completed the top two teams in each group will progress to the All-Ireland semi-final with the Group 1 winner playing the Group 2 runner-up and the Group 2 winner playing the Group 1 runner-up

Order of fixtures in both groups

Round 1

Team 1 v Team 2. Croke Park

Team 3 v Team 4. Croke Park

Round 2

Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.

Team 2 V Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.

Round 3

Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

Team 2 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

Note:

Home venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) and
shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee. CCCC shall
make the draws for Rounds 2 and 3.

The above fixtures format for the group stage means that each team will have one game in Croke Park,
one home game and one away game.

Tie-breakers in the event of teams finishing level on points (in order of application):

(i) Result of game between two tied teams (only where two teams are level on points)

(ii) Score difference

(iii) Highest score for

(iv) Goals scored

(v) Play-off match

All-IRELAND SEMI-FINALS:

Group 1 winner v Group 2 runner-up

Group 2 winner v Group 1 runner-up

(to be played over one weekend)

All-IRELAND FINAL

***

At its meeting on Friday 22 July, An Coiste Bainistíochta considered the attached proposal and agreed to circulate it to all counties. It will be discussed at the next meeting of Central Council.

* See the below document for GAA Ard Stiúrthóir Páraic Duffy's proposal on the structure of the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship in full

Nidgeweasel

Beat me to it by a minute.

Not really dealing with the fundamental issues though is it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Proposal 1 is basically the same system we have now.



Proposal 2 is alright, as long as the provincial champions are run off very quickly (that means Ulster would ahve to say goodbye to their only one match per week policy) and finish no later than the first week of July.

We'd have a flurry of knockout qualifier matches in June and then from July onwards a lot of good quality matches between the 8 quarter finalists.I would hope that they would keep the proposal regarding home advantage from proposal one as part of this as that would make for more competitive matches in the qualifers sections which is what people want.

keane2097

First reaction is:

1. This would go a way towards making sure teams will more often have more equitable paths to the SF/F which is good.

2. More summertime blockbuster games between top teams is a win

3. Huge games in Provincial Grounds in the summertime *insert Randy Marsh gif*

keane2097

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Proposal 1 is basically the same system we have now.



Proposal 2 is alright, as long as the provincial champions are run off very quickly (that means Ulster would ahve to say goodbye to their only one match per week policy) and finish no later than the first week of July.

We'd have a flurry of knockout qualifier matches in June and then from July onwards a lot of good quality matches between the 8 quarter finalists.I would hope that they would keep the proposal regarding home advantage from proposal one as part of this as that would make for more competitive matches in the qualifers sections which is what people want.

Just to clarify, 'proposal 1' is a change to the qualifiers while 'proposal 2' is a change to the QFs onwards - so these would both be applied if the new format went ahead.

I was confused the first time I read that so just in case anyone else happens to be also.

Proposal 1 just gives D3 & D4 teams a bit of an advantage in the early qualifier rounds.

Dirty Dingus McGee

keane2097 wrote: »

Just to clarify, 'proposal 1' is a change to the qualifiers while 'proposal 2' is a change to the QFs onwards - so these would both be applied if the new format went ahead.

I was confused the first time I read that so just in case anyone else happens to be also.

Proposal 1 just gives D3 & D4 teams a bit of an advantage in the early qualifier rounds.

In that case I think the combining of both proposals is quiet good and I like the quarter final proposal as it gives us more matches between the best teams which is what we all want.

If there are no other suggestions then I hope this is passed as it is defintely better than the current structure and there are no negatives to it and some positives.It's definitely a step in the right direction.

Juts means that the provincials and early qualfiers need to be run off quickly as I suggested and I'm sure Padraic Duffy and Co are aware of that

BonnieSituation

keane2097 wrote: »

First reaction is:

1. This would go a way towards making sure teams will more often have more equitable paths to the SF/F which is good.

2. More summertime blockbuster games between top teams is a win

3. Huge games in Provincial Grounds in the summertime *insert Randy Marsh gif*

You can't say it and then not do it:

keane2097

I was thinking of the one with the ectoplasm

biscuits1988

What happens in the case of dead rubbers in the Round Robin series I wonder? Seems like that could be a negative i.e. say Meath at home to Kerry in the last game of the round robin series with one team knocked out and one team requiring a victory to get through?

Or maybe I am missing something obvious.

corny

keane2097 wrote: »

I was thinking of the one with the ectoplasm

Don't be so lazy and just show him

BonnieSituation

biscuits1988 wrote: »

What happens in the case of dead rubbers in the Round Robin series I wonder? Seems like that could be a negative i.e. say Meath at home to Kerry in the last game of the round robin series with one team knocked out and one team requiring a victory to get through?

Or maybe I am missing something obvious.

It's highly unlikely that there would be dead rubbers (consistently) when each only plays each other once.

BonnieSituation

keane2097 wrote: »

I was thinking of the one with the ectoplasm

I was looking for teh one where he was looking wistfully towards the "State Championship" and the sun is setting. That's exactly what I was picturing of you standing on a fence post in Ventry, "No more soft All-Irelands".

corny wrote: »

Don't be so lazy and just show him

Best not.

keane2097

biscuits1988 wrote: »

What happens in the case of dead rubbers in the Round Robin series I wonder? Seems like that could be a negative i.e. say Meath at home to Kerry in the last game of the round robin series with one team knocked out and one team requiring a victory to get through?

Or maybe I am missing something obvious.

I suppose best case scenario your Meath team decide to have a right crack at derailing an All Ireland contender and worst case you have a Kerry-Clare type pedestrian affair.

I think if they put the last group matches on at the same time there's at least a slim chance for the last place team to qualify in most/all cases?

biscuits1988

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's highly unlikely that there would be dead rubbers (consistently) when each only plays each other once.

Ah yeah maybe so. I seem to remember a fair few pointless games in the World Cups and Euros in the past decade but maybe there wasn't as many as I'm imagining.

keane2097

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was looking for teh one where he was looking wistfully towards the "State Championship" and the sun is setting. That's exactly what I was picturing of you standing on a fence post in Ventry, "No more soft All-Irelands".



Best not.

Honestly the most exciting element of it for me is the prospect of Kerry v Mayo in Castlebar, Dublin v Monaghan in Clones etc.

The Championship has become lamentably centred around Croke Park over the last 15 years and we've all lost out on the brilliant atmosphere and sense of occasion of really big matches with fans on tour around the country since the provincial championships have bled away to irrelevance.

loyatemu

R1: 8 groups of 4
R2: 4 groups of 4
SF
F

every county gets at least 3 games, half the counties at least 6.

is that too simple? why such a convoluted structure, just to keep the provincial championships?

keane2097

biscuits1988 wrote: »

Ah yeah maybe so. I seem to remember a fair few pointless games in the World Cups and Euros in the past decade but maybe there wasn't as many as I'm imagining.

The ease of playing for a draw in soccer I think would be a major part of that. GAA doesn't really lend itself to the same thing.

Dirty Dingus McGee

loyatemu wrote: »

R1: 8 groups of 4
R2: 4 groups of 4
SF
F

every county gets at least 3 games, half the counties at least 6.

is that too simple? why such a convoluted structure, just to keep the provincial championships?

Thats a good suggestion aswell.Although it would mean the legaue would be gone (which may be no bad thing anyway).

loyatemu

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Thats a good suggestion aswell.Although it would mean the legaue would be gone (which may be no bad thing anyway).

would it? That's only 8 rounds of matches, could easily do it in the time that the current championship runs and leave the league as is. Obviously the provincials would have to be retired, but does anyone really care about those anymore?

timmyntc

loyatemu wrote: »

R1: 8 groups of 4
R2: 4 groups of 4
SF
F

every county gets at least 3 games, half the counties at least 6.

is that too simple? why such a convoluted structure, just to keep the provincial championships?

The provincials are good, that's why. They aren't all equally good mind, but no sense in scrapping them all.

Padkir

I think it's a brilliant idea. Nothing too drastic; keeps provincial championships which still mean something but increases the number of potential bigger games at the business end and, as a few pointed out, brings a few of these to provincial grounds which would be fantastic. I just hope that they wouldn't bail out when the Dubs have to travel to somewhere with say 10-15k capacity and decide to move it somewhere else to take in more money.

Some strong positives and no negatives (unless I'm missing something). People talk about dead rubbers and one-sided games, etc. You're going to get these regardless as some teams are just miles better than others; so not much that can be done about that.

keane2097

Does winning the Provincial Championship mean you get your game against the higher ranked team in your group at home?

Can't quite tell.

Jayop

I'll be honest I actually really like them. They don't change the fact that a lot of crap games will be played early in the year but that's OK. What they do is give teams outside the top 4 a chance to play more top level football late in the summer.

Proposal 1 is a must do. The current situation whereby a team from Ulster getting beat go into r1 of the qualifiers while Kerry for example can never go in before r3 is farcical. This equalises the provincial disparity for losing teams at least which is something. It's actually so simple that it's a wonder it was never proposed before. The only problem I see is that the first teams to go out in the early rounds of Ulster or connaught will be waiting ages for their next game as they need to wait till everyone at that stage is out.

As for the round robin, I can't see too many dead rubber games apart from those against Dublin and you can't come up with rules taking that into account as it's unfair on everyone else. You'll have the 4 provincial winners and the 4 qualifiers so this year Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin, Galway and from the qualifiers Mayo, Donegal, Tipp and Westmeath.

Picking at random two groups of....

Tyrone
Kerry
Mayo
Tipp

Dublin
Galway
Donegal
Westmeath


From those 6 games how many dead rubbers would there be? 2 or maybe 3?

BonnieSituation

biscuits1988 wrote: »

Ah yeah maybe so. I seem to remember a fair few pointless games in the World Cups and Euros in the past decade but maybe there wasn't as many as I'm imagining.

There can be some and in this new proposal there will be some. But if it's kept to 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw we could be in a fora daycent competition. Similar to how the league works when the top-4 could qualify for the league SF or get relegated!

I'm delighted that the A and B is gone.

keane2097 wrote: »

Honestly the most exciting element of it for me is the prospect of Kerry v Mayo in Castlebar, Dublin v Monaghan in Clones etc.

The Championship has become lamentably centred around Croke Park over the last 15 years and we've all lost out on the brilliant atmosphere and sense of occasion of really big matches with fans on tour around the country since the provincial championships have bled away to irrelevance.

Yup. Couldn't agree more. Was up at the Ulster Final this year (last time I was at it was 2010) and it's a day out like no other. I can only imagine how some of these proposed games could be. Imagine it:

If it was this year as year one:

Group 1:
Kerry
Galway
Donegal
Mayo

Fixtures:

Round 1
Kerry v Galway, Croke Park
Donegal v Mayo, Croke Park

Round 2
Kerry v Donegal, Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney
Galway V Mayo, Salthill

Round 3
Kerry v Mayo, McHale Park, Castlebar
Galway v Donegal, MacCumhaill Park, Ballybofey


Group 2:
Dublin
Tyrone
Tipperary
Clare

Fixtures:
Round 1
Dublin v Tyrone, Croke Park
Tipperary v Clare, Croke Park

Round 2
Dublin v Tipperary, Parnell Park (:P), Dublin
Tyrone v Clare, Healy Park, Omagh

Round 3
Dublin v Clare, Cusack Park, Ennis
Tyrone v Tipperary, Semple Stadium, Thurles

That would be whopper!

Is this the first GAA proposal that we're all in favour of?

iDave

Not the worst idea but provincial championships have to be run off a lot quicker.
Doesn't really do much for weaker teams. They still have the 2 game minimum. Would be harder for a team like Tipp to reach a semi as one QF win wouldn't be enough.
National league status no more relevant than before.
No corresponding plan for hurling. There's a big gap between Prov finals and semis to be filled in that.

StupidLikeAFox

I think its a good proposal. R3 and R4 of the qualifiers would get more competitive, as teams would be playing to get into the last 8 group stage. As well as more top teams playing each other regularly, more middle of the road teams would be playing them regularly too, which should hopefully bring the standard up

keane2097

Jayop wrote: »

Proposal 1 is a must do. The current situation whereby a team from Ulster getting beat go into r1 of the qualifiers while Kerry for example can never go in before r3 is farcical. This equalises the provincial disparity for losing teams at least which is something. It's actually so simple that it's a wonder it was never proposed before. The only problem I see is that the first teams to go out in the early rounds of Ulster or connaught will be waiting ages for their next game as they need to wait till everyone at that stage is out.

Can you give me a quick idea of how P1 changes this? I think I'm missing something...

Bansai

Has its positives and negatives.. If this is being implemented they will need to scrap the seeding in the Munster Championship. As it stands Tipp and Kerry will automatically be in a semi final next year and will only need to win one game to be guaranteed a quarter final round robin place.

Also, what effect would this have on a team coming through the qualifiers.. Lets say for example Roscommon went into Round 1 of the qualifiers and won their matches in each of the 4 rounds to qualify for the QF round robin series, would they be playing every weekend for July and August? Players would be exhausted.

munchkin_utd

in the excitment of trying to digest whats being proposed, did anyone catch if this is a proposal to be ran with this coming 2017 season or would it be the season after again, 2018 ?

Its more of a tweak than a rebuilding so you could retro fit it to the 2017 calendar if needs be replacing a 2week knockout (with potential week extra for replays!) with 3 week round robin, so long as it was setup the right way you could shoehorn it in.

Jayop

The beauty of this is that it really doesn't change an awful lot so it may actually get through. I'd love it from a Tyrone perspective because it would mean on balance that we'd get to the last 8 most years and we'd get those big games. Guaranteed football against Dublin Kerry and Mayo most years sounds class.

BonnieSituation

loyatemu wrote: »

R1: 8 groups of 4
R2: 4 groups of 4
SF
F

every county gets at least 3 games, half the counties at least 6.

is that too simple? why such a convoluted structure, just to keep the provincial championships?

Two rounds of groups is brutal. It would bore us to tears and that would be the end of that.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Thats a good suggestion aswell.Although it would mean the legaue would be gone (which may be no bad thing anyway).

Why would you get rid of the league? The league is great.

loyatemu wrote: »

would it? That's only 8 rounds of matches, could easily do it in the time that the current championship runs and leave the league as is. Obviously the provincials would have to be retired, but does anyone really care about those anymore?

There's no point making a proposal when the GAA have FINALLY suggested something relatively radical that seems to remove some of the issues with the championship.

Padkir wrote: »

I think it's a brilliant idea. Nothing too drastic; keeps provincial championships which still mean something but increases the number of potential bigger games at the business end and, as a few pointed out, brings a few of these to provincial grounds which would be fantastic. I just hope that they wouldn't bail out when the Dubs have to travel to somewhere with say 10-15k capacity and decide to move it somewhere else to take in more money.

Some strong positives and no negatives (unless I'm missing something). People talk about dead rubbers and one-sided games, etc. You're going to get these regardless as some teams are just miles better than others; so not much that can be done about that.

They already dragged us to Nowlan Park.

The thing is they won't be relying on us for cashmoney if this proposal goes through. Attendances will go up!

keane2097 wrote: »

Does winning the Provincial Championship mean you get your game against the higher ranked team in your group at home?

Can't quite tell.

It doesn't specify. I say it'll be decided at the time to maximise earnings and convenience. The CCCCCCCCCCCC decide as below and in the pdf (pp4-5).

Jayop wrote: »

I'll be honest I actually really like them. They don't change the fact that a lot of crap games will be played early in the year but that's OK. What they do is give teams outside the top 4 a chance to play more top level football late in the summer.

Proposal 1 is a must do. The current situation whereby a team from Ulster getting beat go into r1 of the qualifiers while Kerry for example can never go in before r3 is farcical. This equalises the provincial disparity for losing teams at least which is something. It's actually so simple that it's a wonder it was never proposed before. The only problem I see is that the first teams to go out in the early rounds of Ulster or connaught will be waiting ages for their next game as they need to wait till everyone at that stage is out.

As for the round robin, I can't see too many dead rubber games apart from those against Dublin and you can't come up with rules taking that into account as it's unfair on everyone else. You'll have the 4 provincial winners and the 4 qualifiers so this year Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin, Galway and from the qualifiers Mayo, Donegal, Tipp and Westmeath.

Picking at random two groups of....

Tyrone
Kerry
Mayo
Tipp

Dublin
Galway
Donegal
Westmeath


From those 6 games how many dead rubbers would there be? 2 or maybe 3?

No need to do a random group the proposal actually has it in it:

GAA wrote:

Year 1 groupings (succeeding years could be based a rota system):
Group 1 Group 2
Team 1: Munster provincial winner Team 1: Ulster provincial winner
Team 2: Connacht provincial winner Team 2: Leinster provincial winner
Team 3: Ulster runner-up, or team that
defeats them in round 4
Team 3: Munster runner-up, or team that
defeats them in round 4
Team 4: Leinster runner-up, or team that
defeats them in round 4
Team 4: Connacht runner-up, or team that
defeats them in round 4
5
Order of fixtures in both groups
Round 1
Team 1 v Team 2. Croke Park
Team 3 v Team 4. Croke Park
Round 2
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.
Team 2 V Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.
Round 3
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.
Team 2 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.
Note:
Home venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) and
shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee. CCCC shall
make the draws for Rounds 2 and 3.

http://www.gaa.ie/mm//Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/09/77/4AugustFinal_English.pdf