Back-to-school costs pushing some families into debt

Andy From Sligo

some families are having to take out loans to pay the costs to send their kids back to school.

A survey found that the average cost of sending children to school is €340 for a child in senior infants, €395 for fourth class pupils, and €775 for a child in first year of secondary school.

Whats your view(s)?

should the education system should be free?

lawlolawl

If only there was some kind of childrens allowance paid to parents by the state.

me_irl

I think people should really budget when deciding to have snowflake no. 2... or 3.

Peregrine

me_irl wrote: »

I think people should really budget when deciding to have snowflake no. 2... or 3.

Yeah. Back in my day, the smartest one was sent to school and the rest were sent to the mines. People have gotten soft these days. Amirite?

me_irl

Peregrine wrote: »

Yeah. Back in my day, the smartest one was sent to school and the rest were sent to the mines. People have gotten soft these days. Amirite?

No no no, they're minERS. :pac:

Thoie

I agree that the cost of books is too high, and there should really be more work done to keep the costs of those down. However every year we're treated to the same "oh no, the back to school costs".

Schools go back around the same time every year, you generally know what age your own child is, it's not a surprise, and with all the articles about how much it costs, people have the chance to save up for 12 months towards it. €15 a week would cover it all. If you can't afford to save €15 a week there are usually schemes from the health boards/social welfare to help.

Those costs are also assuming everything brand new - hand-me-downs seem to be a thing of the past.

Story Bud?

It's getting cheaper at least.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057621641/3?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

They have even included the annual cost of lunch for the kids in the figures. The children have to be fed anyway and it isn't a cost up front when going back to school.

Andy From Sligo

its compulsory that you got to send your children to school, your in trouble if you dont and then your hit with all the expense that goes with it.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its compulsory that you got to send your children to school, your in trouble if you dont and then your hit with all the expense that goes with it.

You can home school them if you like.

Story Bud?

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its compulsory that you got to send your children to school, your in trouble if you dont and then your hit with all the expense that goes with it.

No it's not.

It's compulsory that your child meets a minimum standard of education, you can do it yourself if you'd prefer Andy. Save yourself a few bob.

Andy From Sligo

lawlolawl wrote: »

If only there was some kind of childrens allowance paid to parents by the state.

there is, we know that - so why are the parents still strapped for the money? - they wouldnt be spending the allowance on fags and booze would they?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its compulsory that you got to send your children to school, your in trouble if you dont and then your hit with all the expense that goes with it.

Such is life. Taxes, motor insurance, TV licence, utility bills, mortgage payments/rent... It all comes with the territory.

Andy From Sligo

Story Bud? wrote: »

No it's not.

It's compulsory that your child meets a minimum standard of education, you can do it yourself if you'd prefer Andy.

mine are long gone past the stage thanks be to god, and I dont have any plans to have any more any time soon

Jawgap

If you can't afford them don't have them.

SEPT 23 1989

the school buke cartels in this country are a major problem

Andy From Sligo

Gregory Quaint Passenger wrote: »

Such is life. Taxes, motor insurance, TV licence, utility bills, mortgage payments/rent... It all comes with the territory.

yeah but there are those in life that can afford it and those that cannot and a lot of the time its no good people whinging that couples shouldnt have had kids in the first place if they cannot afford to bring them up.

jackofalltrades

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

some families are having to take out loans to pay the costs to send their kids back to school.

A survey found that the average cost of sending children to school is €340 for a child in senior infants, €395 for fourth class pupils, and €775 for a child in first year of secondary school.

Whats your view(s)?

should the education system should be free?

I'd like to see a link to the survey, see exactly what's included.
I think previous surveys have included the costs of things that you would have to buy anyway.
I think voluntary contributions should be done away with or actually made voluntary.
Back in my day(I know that was some time ago) but teachers used to be quite heavy handed when it come to collecting this.
Also school uniforms should be made as cheap as possible, no excuse for a local shop to be charging a fortune just cause a jumper has a crest on it.

Andy From Sligo

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

You can home school them if you like.

do you not need to be qualified as a teacher no?

Story Bud?

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do you not need to be qualified as a teacher no?

No.

Speedwell

Jawgap wrote: »

If you can't afford them don't have them.

Or don't have one of the parents die, or don't lose your job, or don't become ill, or don't be the victim of fraud, theft, or other crime, or...

Andy From Sligo

I know when my 2 went to school the schools changed the books every year so we had to buy new ones and they werent cheap along with other stuff. - I presume its the same these days, and then the uniforms and everything else

Jawgap

Speedwell wrote: »

Or don't have one of the parents die, or don't lose your job, or don't become ill, or don't be the victim of fraud, theft, or other crime, or...

I'm all for helping out people who've been desperately unlucky (including granting them mortgage debt relief) - so yeah, if someone has been prudent and hardworking and life has just dealt them up a sh1t deal I'd be all for them getting a big chunk of help to alleviate some of the lesser burdens they might have to deal with......

.....but my understanding is that the surveys and complaints don't just come from the unlucky and the unfortunate - it's a general across-the-board whinge.

Maybe instead of whinging about these things parents should organise, get on the Parents Council of their school and the governing body and change the uniform and book policies to make them more family friendly and cheaper.....

.......or they could just keep whinging.

Jawgap

Speedwell wrote: »

Or don't have one of the parents die, or don't lose your job, or don't become ill, or don't be the victim of fraud, theft, or other crime, or...

btw- you forgot to add family break-up. I know from personal experience how traumatic and expensive that can be

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Any time I read a thread by you Andy, my blood pressure which is normally on the low side, Sky rockets and I am always tempted to write a massive post to argue against it, until I remember - all your threads seem to have the same theme, and I can't help but feel you like the reactions disagreeing with you more than the ones agreeing with you.

Widdershins

Story Bud? wrote: »

No it's not.

It's compulsory that your child meets a minimum standard of education, you can do it yourself if you'd prefer Andy. Save yourself a few bob.

You'd still need educational supplies , books , etc. I don't know that you would save .


Seems like a lot of money to me . I thought schools were using IPAD or laptops now ?

There is a grant for the purchase of schoolbooks.

s4uv3

Look. Tough as it is, you gotta pay your way in this life.
I'd move heaven and hell to get the few hundred bob together to get my child educated, and be damn glad to live in a country with access to such a wonderful education and for such little cost.

Waaahhhhh, we can't go to Santa Ponza now cos school books. Waaahhhhhh. :rolleyes:

Andy From Sligo

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'd like to see a link to the survey, see exactly what's included.
.

I think it was Barnardo's who produced the survey.

This is what Irish League of Credit Unions have amounted it up to:

On average primary school parents are spending €145 on uniforms per child, secondary school parents spending €234 per child



31% of parents find themselves in debt covering back to school costs, borrowing an average of €357



In 2016 - 60% of parents will shop online for back to school items, up significantly from 47% in 2015



Dunnes Stores is considered best value for school clothing (21%) followed by Marks & Spencer (19%), Tesco (15%) and specialty shop (12%)



79% parents expected to make ‘voluntary contribution to school averaging €118 per child, up from €112 in 2015



37% of parents feel under pressure to buy branded school supplies, down from 42% in 2015, pressure more evident in secondary school parents



Only 14% % of parents eligible for back-to-school allowance believe the back to school allowance is sufficient to cover school costs

http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/pressreleases/2016/title,10212,en.php

Story Bud?

Widdershins wrote: »

You'd still need educational supplies , books , etc. I don't know that you would save .

Oh I agree, I suspect it would cost you more in the long run to self educate your child. I was responding to Andy who thought because it was compulsory to send your child to school that it shouldn't cost you a shiny penny.

Thoie

Comparatively easy things schools could do:

• Use generic, easily available, uniforms. If they really want a crest, sell it separately and people can sew it on to jumpers. The same crest could last years.
• Stop the nonsense of special tracksuits.
• Stop using workbooks that have to be written in - let the kids write in copybooks. Consider it a learning opportunity and teach them how to cross reference their work properly.
• Stop changing text books (or editions) so frequently. The curriculum doesn't change that often, there's no need for the books to change so often either.

OldNotWIse

If you cant afford them don't have them. In the same way that people don't get dogs and then moan about the cost of vaccinating and doggie daycare and Royal Canin.

I do think the school book thing is a joke and a cartel but I'd bet that if the money that is spent on lavish communions and confirmations was re-routed to back to school costs, there wouldn't be an issue.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yeah but there are those in life that can afford it and those that cannot and a lot of the time its no good people whinging that couples shouldnt have had kids in the first place if they cannot afford to bring them up.

I never said anything about not having kids. I said it's a cost of living, like many things.

I think you just like arguing for the sake of it.

I'm out.

B.A._Baracus

Probably in the minority in this but I think primary and secondary education should be free.

Thoie

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Probably in the minority in this but I think primary and secondary education should be free.

Which bits? The teachers and buildings? Clothes? Books? Food?

Jawgap

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Probably in the minority in this but I think primary and secondary education should be free.

No, I'd agree wholeheartedly and so would most people - it's the tax raises that'd be required that would put most off.

Smondie

Sure whay else would parents be spending thier money on? Drink i suppose? You have to forgo a few pints to educate your special snowflake, thems the breaks

Judge Trudy

You would think that the people moaning on here about other people having kids, didn't have their own parents who gave out about how expensive it was to raise them when they were little uns or didn't refer to them as snowflakes. Oh how it would be great to be perfect like that. It must have been a long time since some were that young to remember.

Story Bud?

Thoie wrote: »

Comparatively easy things schools could do:

• Use generic, easily available, uniforms. If they really want a crest, sell it separately and people can sew it unto jumpers. The same crest could last years.
• Stop the nonsense of special tracksuits.
• Stop using workbooks that have to be written in - let the kids write in copybooks. Consider it a learning opportunity and teach them how to cross reference their work properly.
• Stop changing text books (or editions) so frequently. The curriculum doesn't change that often, there's no need for the books to change so often either.

Completely agree with this list. I don't think there's any need to have expensive uniforms when generic is perfectly fine.

I know one of last year's maths books had "world record 100metre time" - I mean that's just stupid, if the world record changes the book is automatically out of date.

Still though, I do think the costs are exaggerated, it doesn't cost €145 every single September to clothe your child for example. A new schoolbag is absolutely not required every year, just buy a decent one to begin with and it will last years. Teach your child to look after things and they won't need a new geometry set and calculator every year.

Thoie

Judge Trudy wrote: »

You would think that the people moaning on here about other people having kids, didn't have their own parents who gave out about how expensive it was to raise them when they were little uns or didn't refer to them as snowflakes. Oh how it would be great to be perfect like that. It must have been a long time since some were that young to remember.

Who's moaning about other people having kids?

Judge Trudy

Thoie wrote: »

Who's moaning about other people having kids?

Just about the majority of people on this thread.

Thoie

Story Bud? wrote: »

I know one of last year's maths books had "world record 100metre time" - I mean that's just stupid, if the world record changes the book is automatically out of date.

That kind of thing doesn't need a new edition. If the subject was, I dunno, "sports history" or something, then that would be silly. But in a maths book I'm guessing it was being used as an example for something (Bob runs at a speed of 3 meters per year. What percentage improvement would he need to make to match the world record* 100 meter time? *Correct as of February 2015). Assuming the kids don't need to learn the fastest time off by heart for future examination, then it's pretty irrelevant.

Story Bud?

Thoie wrote: »

That kind of thing doesn't need a new edition. If the subject was, I dunno, "sports history" or something, then that would be silly. But in a maths book I'm guessing it was being used as an example for something (Bob runs at a speed of 3 meters per year. What percentage improvement would he need to make to match the world record* 100 meter time? *Correct as of February 2015). Assuming the kids don't need to learn the fastest time off by heart for future examination, then it's pretty irrelevant.

Agreed, but that's exactly the kind of thing they do change editions for unfortunately.

Story Bud?

Judge Trudy wrote: »

Just about the majority of people on this thread.

nnnnope

andekwarhola

Thoie wrote: »

Use generic, easily available, uniforms. If they really want a crest, sell it separately and people can sew it unto jumpers.

Depends on the school maybe.

When my eldest kid started primary, I was slightly shocked at the jumper cost (35 quid) but it's really thick and lasted him two years and his brother a year after that.

It's probably cheaper in the long run then getting thinner, generic jumpers. They have those as spares and they don't last at all.

Macy0161

Widdershins wrote: »

You'd still need educational supplies , books , etc. I don't know that you would save .


Seems like a lot of money to me . I thought schools were using IPAD or laptops now ?

There is a grant for the purchase of schoolbooks.

The ebooks is a scam too. Usually ipad specific, so they screw you on the device side too. And you don't get to "keep" the book - they have specific apps that are time limited.

The whole books/ work books thing is what frustrates me as a parent, even with two in consecutive years, very little that can be handed on. Pretty much just a couple of readers.

No voluntary contribution in our school - they don't even bother to pretend - there's specific arts and crafts "charges", and photocopying "charges". Only leeway they give parents who may struggle to pay, is pay by installment.

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

If only there was some kind of childrens allowance paid to parents by the state.

Or even a Back To School Allowance. Tis terrible what poor parents have to buy for their children. Imagine having to feed the little darlings too!!!

As a parent, I learned to budget throughout each year in order to kit my children out for the start of the school year. I'm sure most other parents did the same.

Lollipops23

I agree wholeheartedly with the points about the school uniforms needing to be generic. My own uniforms where all speciality- and contracted out to local shops in both primary and secondary schools. They cost a fortune.

You'll often find with the constantly updating text books that one of the teachers wrote it and insist upon having it on the curriculum every year. Mo money in the aul back pocket for them...

TeaBagMania

One of the things I really liked about Ireland was the lack of property taxes. Just wait until your household charges get into full swing. Half of my property taxes ($900 dollars worth) go to the county school district and I don t even have kids, WTF

diomed

In the good old days all you needed was a schoolbag, a copybook and a pencil.
We were dumb, but we were happy.

diomed

diomed wrote: »

In the good old days all you needed was a schoolbag, a copybook and a pencil.
We were dumb, but we were happy.

I remember using a slate and chalk!

diomed

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember using a slate and chalk!

Well la-di-da.