Back-to-school costs pushing some families into debt

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember using a slate and chalk!

We also had bring fuel for the classroom fire. Imagine that today. I'd rather give a few euro towards heating costs than having the kids hawking lumps of fuel to school.

ohnonotgmail

Gregory Quaint Passenger wrote: »

We also had bring fuel for the classroom fire. Imagine that today. I'd rather give a few euro towards heating costs than having the kids hawking lumps of fuel to school.

I had you down for a hedge school

Thoie

andekwarhola wrote: »

Depends on the school maybe.

When my eldest kid started primary, I was slightly shocked at the jumper cost (35 quid) but it's really thick and lasted him two years and his brother a year after that.

It's probably cheaper in the long run then getting thinner, generic jumpers. They have those as spares and they don't last at all.

You could still buy a "good" generic jumper for the same kind of money if you can afford it, but people would also have the option to spend €6 if they wanted to. It's always been the case that rich people will buy one pair of shoes that last for €300 while poor people buy 20 pairs of shoes for €40 in the same time.

Gregory Quaint Passenger

Gregory Quaint Passenger wrote: »

We also had bring fuel for the classroom fire. Imagine that today. I'd rather give a few euro towards heating costs than having the kids hawking lumps of fuel to school.

That takes me back too! Turf was frowned upon, as it caused the room to fill with smoke if it didn't draw too good! Coal was preferred.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I had you down for a hedge school

Not quite, no.

But not far off.

The books updates are one joke, uniforms are another. I remember in secondary school I moved into adult sizes and somehow the slacks were cheaper. :rolleyes: Never mind the 60 quid blazer and 40 quid jumper.

Smondie

Deleted User wrote: »

The books updates are one joke, uniforms are another. I remember in secondary school I moved into adult sizes and somehow the slacks were cheaper. :rolleyes: Never mind the 60 quid blazer and 40 quid jumper.

21 Cent a day for a jumper sounds like good value. Get 2 years out of it and it's only 10cent/day worn.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Smondie wrote: »

21 Cent a day for a jumper sounds like good value. Get 2 years out of it and it's only 10cent/day worn.

And I'm sure the child has to have clothes bought whether at school or not. I know one pair of parents who bemoan the lack of a school uniform in their school because of the competition for 'style' amongst the kids. They say a uniform, and regulation school footwear, would be cheaper

Widdershins

TeaBagMania wrote: »

One of the things I really liked about Ireland was the lack of property taxes. Just wait until your household charges get into full swing. Half of my property taxes ($900 dollars worth) go to the county school district and I don t even have kids, WTF

Ireland now has property tax.

the groutch

Another vested interest overestimating the cost of sending kids to school.
What a surprise! :rolleyes:

Smondie

Smondie wrote: »

21 Cent a day for a jumper sounds like good value. Get 2 years out of it and it's only 10cent/day worn.

Ah good ol' assumptions. By February every year it was in bits and I dunno if you've ever been around teenage boys but getting a jumper that'll last 2 years for size isn't always easy. Ya know what's better value than a 40 quid jumper that might last a year? A fiver jumper that lasts half a year no problem.

Smondie

Deleted User wrote: »

Smondie wrote: »

21 Cent a day for a jumper sounds like good value. Get 2 years out of it and it's only 10cent/day worn.

Ah good ol' assumptions. By February every year it was in bits and I dunno if you've ever been around teenage boys but getting a jumper that'll last 2 years for size isn't always easy. Ya know what's better value than a 40 quid jumper that might last a year? A fiver jumper that lasts half a year no problem.

Where are the jumpers on sale for a fiver might get one myself

IvyTheTerrible

If ye get rid of uniforms and books, people will still complain about costs. Here in France, there are no school uniforms, and schools provide the books up to Leaving Cert cycle, and people STILL moan about paying for stationary and clothes for back to school.

Smondie

Smondie wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Smondie wrote: »

21 Cent a day for a jumper sounds like good value. Get 2 years out of it and it's only 10cent/day worn.

Ah good ol' assumptions. By February every year it was in bits and I dunno if you've ever been around teenage boys but getting a jumper that'll last 2 years for size isn't always easy. Ya know what's better value than a 40 quid jumper that might last a year? A fiver jumper that lasts half a year no problem.

.

Where are the jumpers on sale for a fiver?might get one myself

FizzleSticks

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Wanderer41

For secondary school you wouldn't be paying that much every year. You don't need a new uniform or books every year. The uniform I got in first year did me for 3 or 4 years - my trousers/skirt were taken up and then let down when I grew, and my jumper and blouses were fine too. I used my sister's old uniform then as I passed my uniform on to another girl. The uniforms are expensive but they definitely don't need to be bought every year if you buy them with a little room to spare.
Regarding books, many books you buy in first year are continued on for second and third year, likewise for Leaving Cert. Exam papers are another expense but they seem to be getting cheaper at around €2.50/€3 each with newer companies. I'm not long out of secondary school but I don't think any of my books are used now so I couldn't pass most of mine on to other students. Saying that, I was always amazed at how many people had a full set of brand new books each year! I remember one girl asking about exam fees as she had a medical card (they are free with a medical card), but all of her books were brand new, not one was second hand even though most had been around years.

mohawk

You don't have to spend it all in one go. Ever heard of budgeting??
In June I paid the photocopying charge to school and bought my son new trousers, shirts, tshirts. In July I bought books and stationary and in August I will buy new shoes and new jumper. May need to buy new tracksuit but that depends on how much he grows over summer.
He got two years out of tracksuit and jumper. I buy everything too big so he won't grow out of it too fast. He doesn't need a new school bag so won't waste my money buying a new one.

I would prefer no uniform to be honest as he insists on changing his clothes straight after school so he goes through loads of clothes anyway.

freshpopcorn

I always find it amazing when people moan about having to buy a uniform for their children. I went to school in the 1990's and 2000's and in primary school most people bought their uniform in a local shop and the jumper(uncrested) was about €50 and it generally lasted everyone the year and others longer. Those who did buy the cheaper version were always complaining they were cold and they nearly always looked shabby in school pictures.
In secondary school our uniform was created however.
I often hear people moaning about having to buy the expensive uniform when there's not crest on the pants or shirt and they could easily go to Dunnes/etc for them. I often find the same people have no issue buying a designer hoodie for their kid but a jumper that they'll get a lot of wear out of is a no no!

Smondie

Darning needs to come back in to fashion if new jumpers etc can't be afforded.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Would the child be nude if they weren't wearing a uniform? Aren't parents given 140 euro per child at the beginning of each month?

Andy From Sligo

in my kids Secondary school for ones that didnt pay (or couldnt afford more like) the 'voluntary' donation for the school the teachers stood them up in class for all the others to ridicule! B*stards...

Smondie

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

in my kids Secondary school for ones that didnt pay (or couldnt afford more like) the 'voluntary' donation for the school the teachers stood them up in class for all the others to ridicule! B*stards...

the teacher probably saw the parents down the pub

Wanderer41

My primary school had a generic uniform which was great. Secondary was a lot more expensive but as someone else pointed out, your child will be wearing it every day for at least a year so it's not too bad.. if they could make better quality ones that would be great but the price would increase too.
In primary I had a mixture of Dunnes jumpers and Hunter (possibly) brand jumpers. Hunter were more expensive but definitely lasted longer and didn't go out of shape/lose colour. Trousers and polo shirts were fine though.

Thoie

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

in my kids Secondary school for ones that didnt pay (or couldnt afford more like) the 'voluntary' donation for the school the teachers stood them up in class for all the others to ridicule! B*stards...

And that's just wrong, and something that should be raised with the board.

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Would the child be nude if they weren't wearing a uniform? Aren't parents given 140 euro per child at the beginning of each month?

Agree 100 percent. I have 2 teenage boys and one superdry or Abercrombie top could easily cost more and be worn less than the school jumper.

Lived in the U.S for a few years when kids were younger and I would see the high school students go out to take the bus each morning in all the designer gear, specially the girls. There's a lot to be said for a uniform.

People don't understand budgeting these days, and expect to have the state pick up the tab for everything. Yes, there are people ho genuinely need help and I would really rather that the pot of money was spread amongst these fewer in number than the careless ones who just couldn't be bothered putting money aside each week to plan for the back to school expenses which they know they will have come September.

When I was a kid my parents had very little money and there was no such thing as far as I am aware of a back to school allowance. But we all had our books, uniform etc. because my parents thankfully prioritized education.

Neyite

Deleted User wrote: »

Or even a Back To School Allowance. Tis terrible what poor parents have to buy for their children. Imagine having to feed the little darlings too!!!

As a parent, I learned to budget throughout each year in order to kit my children out for the start of the school year. I'm sure most other parents did the same.

Lots of parents budget and are happy to pay the necessary costs. But the problem is the blatant rip-off prices on anything that is mandatory purchase for children.

If you have three kids in secondary the cost of books can be astronomical and the brand new one that you got your eldest 2 years ago and spent 60 quid on has to be replaced because its a 'new' edition. I know of a woman who had to pay 50 quid a jumper in a specific shop when the identical one was retailing in tesco's for a tenner, minus the crest. And the kid then had a growth spurt so went though about 3 of them in the year.

Here on AH though, you are allowed to moan about the cost of car repairs, or insurance or the price of a pint or a packet of fags, but god forbid you complain about getting ripped off as a parent over the cost of a sh!tty jumper or extortionate creche fees. Because we get €140 a month we are supposed to not want value for money for anything child-related. Or compare those costs comparatively with other similar countries and see that we are getting blatantly ripped off. Because if you dare to complain that money will be a bit tight in August, you get accused of pissing away all your mickey money on holidays, stretch limos for communions, and deemed irresponsible for having a child in the first place. Despite the fact that we actually pay multiples of that 'mickey money' back into the exchequer monthly in taxes.

FizzleSticks

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mdwexford

It's not expensive to send a kid to school.

As said above, save 15 quid a week and it's job done.
But no people spend every cent weekly and then panic when they need 600 in one go and cry about how expensive it is.

Every child gets €1680 in children's allowance also, if you can't afford it, don't have 5 kids. Just a thought.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Why not take the crest off the original jumper and sew it on the generic one?
People are complaining about having to send their kid to school with a lunch, or buy a uniform. Do children not eat or wear clothes outside of school?

Thoie

Neyite wrote: »

Lots of parents budget

...


Because if you dare to complain that money will be a bit tight in August,

I was with you all the way until money being tight in August - that would suggest that things weren't budgeted for well.

I know that late August/early September I have a lot of expenses (2 different insurance renewals, TV license and 2 other regular things), so I generally put money aside for them all year precisely so that I don't end up having two tight months.

If people can afford to money aside each week/month, then failing to do so is just silly.

Smondie

When Christmas rolls around, let's see what parents are not short of money.

FizzleSticks

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Samsgirl

I have a daughter starting primary this year. To date we have spent:
Pinafore €8
Shirt x2 €7
Jumper €15
Tie €2.50
Polo shirt x 2 €5
Shoes €55
School Bag €40
School Books €80
Lunch bag & drink bottle €13

Total so far : €225.50

Still to get:
Tracksuit
Coat
Copies / folders
Pencils
€35 photocopying fee to school.

Have another daughter starting next year and will have similar costs as Junior and Senior infants are in same room so they will need two sets of books / workbooks etc.
They will also be getting the school bus next year and that approx €250 for the two of them.

Samsgirl

Samsgirl wrote: »

I have a daughter starting primary this year. To date we have spent:
Pinafore €8
Shirt x2 €7
Jumper €15
Tie €2.50
Polo shirt x 2 €5
Shoes €55
School Bag €40
School Books €80
Lunch bag & drink bottle €13

Total so far : €225.50

Still to get:
Tracksuit
Coat
Copies / folders
Pencils
€35 photocopying fee to school.

Have another daughter starting next year and will have similar costs as Junior and Senior infants are in same room so they will need two sets of books / workbooks etc.
They will also be getting the school bus next year and that approx €250 for the two of them.

Count yourself very lucky: my crèche fees are over €1,000 per month per child.

Samsgirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Count yourself very lucky: my crèche fees are over €1,000 per month per child.

Believe me, I know!! Im so lucky that I have had them both at creche but as I have been working on CE sheme the bulk of the fees were covered by Cets.
I wasn't complaining, just giving a breakdown as an example of costs this year.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Samsgirl wrote: »

I have a daughter starting primary this year. To date we have spent:
Pinafore €8
Shirt x2 €7
Jumper €15
Tie €2.50
Polo shirt x 2 €5
Shoes €55
School Bag €40
School Books €80
Lunch bag & drink bottle €13

Total so far : €225.50

Still to get:
Tracksuit
Coat
Copies / folders
Pencils
€35 photocopying fee to school.

Have another daughter starting next year and will have similar costs as Junior and Senior infants are in same room so they will need two sets of books / workbooks etc.
They will also be getting the school bus next year and that approx €250 for the two of them.

What would you spend on clothing and shoes if she wasn't at school?

Samsgirl

Gregory Quaint Passenger wrote: »

What would you spend on clothing and shoes if she wasn't at school?

Lord knows, lol. The fashion demands change on a weekly if not daily basis.

Neyite

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why not take the crest off the original jumper and sew it on the generic one?
People are complaining about having to send their kid to school with a lunch, or buy a uniform. Do children not eat or wear clothes outside of school?

Cant. School can and do send the kid home until they wear the "right" jumper. The smart thing to do would be to have a crest for a fiver to stick on any [insert colour] jumper but the schools seem to be in cahoots with the shops or something.

Thoie wrote: »

I was with you all the way until money being tight in August - that would suggest that things weren't budgeted for well.

I know that late August/early September I have a lot of expenses (2 different insurance renewals, TV license and 2 other regular things), so I generally put money aside for them all year precisely so that I don't end up having two tight months.

If people can afford to money aside each week/month, then failing to do so is just silly.

I do budget, and I've never failed to pay up on time where my child is concerned. I've never been so much as a day late with his creche fees. When I'm saying its tight what I mean is that you can still afford it, but you might have to do some economy meals and trim back a bit.

I'm the kind of person that has Christmas sorted and paid for before Halloween. But you can budget for all that stuff and then the car needs a new head gasket. Or the washing machine goes or whatever. My kid isn't actually in school yet, and I already know when I need to start saving for what he needs. Doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to mention why I'm not happy to pay over the odds for something, or that I'm a bad parent for not anticipating that extra €100 that was required somewhere in all the September expenses.

Permabear

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Queen-Mise

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Only 14% % of parents eligible for back-to-school allowance believe the back to school allowance is sufficient to cover school costs

http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/pressreleases/2016/title,10212,en.php

Whatever about the rest, the Back to School Allowance definitely doesn't cover the cost of sending kids to back to school. A lot depends on what year they are in, it might cover the very early years in primary school but definitely not after that.

This year - Child 1 going into 3rd year - No idea of books, haven't gotten a list yet, I'd say he would have most of them anyway. Uniform and shoes - really won't have much change from 200 euro. And 100 euro, registration fee for school. Not sure of anything else.
The figure given above for €775 in 1st year is ludicrous - I'd say it cost me €1,100 to put child into 1st year.

The second child is going into 5th Class - 70 alone for tracksuit, uniform, shoes/runners also. Again not much change from 200 anyway. Especially for tights, socks, etc. Then school books hire is 40, books on top of that will be another 70 euro, and then photocopying etc, another 25.

I'd imagine I'm looking at between 700/800 for them to go back to school.


And about the post on children's allowance - it is nice to know that kids only cost money between 9 and 4 on term time. Jaysus - I wonder if I should have told kids they don't get any food/heating/electricity for July/August, Xmas period, Easter, etc.

hairyslug

We must be lucky, our eldest is going into 2nd class, her uniform is failry standard, navy dress and blue shirt or navy tracksuit and yellow top, there is no demand put on the parents by the school that they must wear crested clothes. Everything can be picked up in Aldi/Tesco. The school does a bulk buy of books and sells them onto us at cost.

Our 2 youngest are in a school where a uniform is not compulsory so we get off easily there.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Whatever about the rest, the Back to School Allowance definitely doesn't cover the cost of sending kids to back to school. A lot depends on what year they are in, it might cover the very early years in primary school but definitely not after that.

This year - Child 1 going into 3rd year - No idea of books, haven't gotten a list yet, I'd say he would have most of them anyway. Uniform and shoes - really won't have much change from 200 euro. And 100 euro, registration fee for school. Not sure of anything else.
The figure given above for €775 in 1st year is ludicrous - I'd say it cost me €1,100 to put child into 1st year.

The second child is going into 5th Class - 70 alone for tracksuit, uniform, shoes/runners also. Again not much change from 200 anyway. Especially for tights, socks, etc. Then school books hire is 40, books on top of that will be another 70 euro, and then photocopying etc, another 25.

I'd imagine I'm looking at between 700/800 for them to go back to school.


And about the post on children's allowance - it is nice to know that kids only cost money between 9 and 4 on term time. Jaysus - I wonder if I should have told kids they don't get any food/heating/electricity for July/August, Xmas period, Easter, etc.

Did children costing you money come as a surprise to you when they were born Queen Mise, or were you aware of the fact before deciding to have a family?

Sam Kade

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Did children costing you money come as a surprise to you when they were born Queen Mise, or were you aware of the fact before deciding to have a family?

Yeah, she was able to calculate all future expenses allowing for inflation for each childs life even the ones that cropped up out of the blue, her crystal ball must be well polished :rolleyes:

Jawgap

Does anyone do 'hand-me-downs' any more?

They were discussing the topic on the radio yesterday evening and the parent being interviewed balked at the idea of the younger kid wearing hand-me-downs!!!

If you've a kid a few years ahead of a younger kid (of the same gender) surely you keep the older kid's stuff for future use?

.....I think hand-me-downs are great, but there again I was the eldest

Speedwell

Jawgap wrote: »

Does anyone do 'hand-me-downs' any more?

They were discussing the topic on the radio yesterday evening and the parent being interviewed balked at the idea of the younger kid wearing hand-me-downs!!!

If you've a kid a few years ahead of a younger kid (of the same gender) surely you keep the older kid's stuff for future use?

.....I think hand-me-downs are great, but there again I was the eldest

Being the eldest didn't save me. I got hand-me-downs from my cousins and the daughters of my mother's friends :rolleyes: When I was old enough to wear my mother's clothes, that was OK, and my grandmother was a complete clothes horse, a very stylish dresser, and generous with the "go raid my closet" instructions. It is not given to every girl to have hand-me-downs with the Neiman-Marcus and Bloomingdale's tags still on them, especially since my parents were perfectly happy with Wal-Mart :P It would have been better for me to have gone to a school with uniforms because then I'd not have given in to the immature idea of going to school massively overdressed.

lertsnim

It would seem that some people here would nearly suggest that if you cannot afford to put your child through school then take the boat to England to have that little problem fixed before the child is born. :rolleyes:

There is some load of judgemental arseholes on this thread.

Dravokivich

Gregory Quaint Passenger wrote: »

What would you spend on clothing and shoes if she wasn't at school?

That's not really the issue. The issues are:

- bespoke clothing available in only 1 place. Typically somewhere that has a close association with the schools. We've had tribunals for the same concept on a grander scale FFS.
- School books that are only valid for a limited cycle. When I was in secondary school they were only valid for 3 years. My brother couldn't even use mine and he was only 4 years behind me and I got them in the second year of the cycle. So by the time I was finished with them there was no value in selling them second hand.

Jawgap wrote: »

Does anyone do 'hand-me-downs' any more?

They were discussing the topic on the radio yesterday evening and the parent being interviewed balked at the idea of the younger kid wearing hand-me-downs!!!

If you've a kid a few years ahead of a younger kid (of the same gender) surely you keep the older kid's stuff for future use?

.....I think hand-me-downs are great, but there again I was the eldest

I have 2 younger brothers. We went to the same primary schools. Only one of them went to the same secondary school as me. There was an opportunity for hand me downs in general, but not with the school uniforms. We were all varying sizes and none of my stuff fit my first brother while he was in school and my other brother trailed me by 7 years. He was too small for the uniforms that could have been passed down to him by my first brother.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Did children costing you money come as a surprise to you when they were born Queen Mise, or were you aware of the fact before deciding to have a family?

What are you a broken record?

Speedwell

It strikes me that many of the people who are all "if you can't afford kids don't have them" are the same people who would no, never, not under any circumstances approve of not having children even if their conception was the result of a lapse in judgment, an honest error, or a crime, or who would gossip about a woman who decided to go for adoption.

The Rape of Lucretia

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

some families are having to take out loans to pay the costs to send their kids back to school.

Why people take up expensive hobbies, like having children, that they cant afford, I will never understand.
Its like someone deciding to buy a big yacht and then saying they go into debt every year to pay for its maintenance and mooring fees.
Shouldnt have gotten into the game if you cant afford it bud.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's not really the issue. The issues are:

- bespoke clothing available in only 1 place. Typically somewhere that has a close association with the schools. We've had tribunals for the same concept on a grander scale FFS.
- School books that are only valid for a limited cycle. When I was in secondary school they were only valid for 3 years. My brother couldn't even use mine and he was only 4 years behind me and I got them in the second year of the cycle. So by the time I was finished with them there was no value in selling them second hand.



I have 2 younger brothers. We went to the same primary schools. Only one of them went to the same secondary school as me. There was an opportunity for hand me downs in general, but not with the school uniforms. We were all varying sizes and none of my stuff fit my first brother while he was in school and my other brother trailed me by 7 years. He was too small for the uniforms that could have been passed down to him by my first brother.



What are you a broken record?

I'm a person surprised at parents whinging and feeling hard done by because they have to clothe their children and are surprised when government hand outs don't cover 100% of the cost. It's like people get pregnant, go to the community welfare officer for their grant for their maternity bag and from the day the child is born, it's a surprise that food, heating and a place for them to live costs money, and should be the tax payers responsibility.