Christianophobia

DEFTLEFTHAND

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

jimmy blevins

If Christians asked themselves "what would Jesus do?" the world would undoubtedly be a better place, that can't be said for all prophets.

endacl

jimmy blevins wrote: »

If Christians asked themselves "what would Jesus do?" the world would undoubtedly be a better place, that can't be said for all prophets.

Depends on the answer they provide themselves, and the action believed appropriate based on that answer.

'What should I do', as a reasonably decent person, does the trick for me.

Wompa1

jimmy blevins wrote: »

If Christians asked themselves "what would Jesus do?" the world would undoubtedly be a better place, that can't be said for all prophets.

Jesus turned a blind eye to an awful lot of heinous sh1t going on in that part of the world at the time, if you consider the 10 commandments doesn't mention slavery, among other things...granted, it's all BS.

Wompa1

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

Do you need a religion to teach people that?....

DEFTLEFTHAND

The irony of it all is that Jesus was a hippy in a day modern context. He was anti establishment to the core.

He preached the word of his father until he was nailed to a cross.

511

Inside the secular, liberal mind:

Christianophobia = acceptable
Islamophobia = unacceptable, racist, fascist. Nazi, bigot, etc.

The real world: neither are valid terms because they are not irrational fears and religion should never be above criticism. Both have led to the slaughter of millions of people and both continue the divide humans into hate-mongering groups. That's the whole propose behind the Abrahamic faiths, power and subjugation of the people.

Morals pre-date Christianity, so Christianity can't claims to have created morals in the West. They may have enforced them alright, but they Christians are also the reason why homosexuality was demonized in Europe and is still demonized in Africa. Christianity used demonize children born outside of wedlock and created the Magdalene asylums for the mothers.

Not a fan of the Jewish practice of circumcision. We need our foreskin to protect the gland from developing a callus or else teh penis will go numb and you won't get an organism. Forcing that on 13 year olds is child abuse.

The sooner the Abrahamic faiths die out, the better. We have less war and division on this planet.

TSMGUY

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

As it should be, any group/philosophy/belief system should be fair game for criticism, contradiction and challenges. We live in a democracy with freedom of speech so unless you want to bring back those arbitrary and imbecilic decency/blasphemy censorship laws, that's the way things will be.

That being said, I understand your indignation. There is a burgeoning anti-Christian sentiment that seems not just to ridicule the religion but paint all Christians with the same derogatory brush and brand all "believers" as gullible morons simply because of their religion. A lot of that is due to smug Richard Dawkins style atheism that's belligerently anti-religion and claims to have a monopoly on religion, which is obviously wrong. There are many smart, articulate Christians and many irrational atheists - it's really a silly metric for intelligence.

After centuries of influencing every sphere of public life and behaving in a very shady and dictatorial way, it was inevitable the Church would face some backlash and to be honest it deserves a lot of it given it had such an inordinate role in public life for so long in Ireland, often on the wrong side of issues as well.

Cliffs
The Church deserves criticism
Christians don't (unless, of course, they try to undo the separation between Church and State. It's downright silly that abortion isn't allowed in this country.)

Canis Lupus

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The irony of it all is that Jesus was a hippy in a day modern context. He was anti establishment to the core.

He preached the word of his father until he was nailed to a cross.

Presuming that Jesus existed of course.

Personally I think it's all a load of bollox and the entire thing should be made fun of.

SpannerMonkey

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

while im not a religious person i do agree with you . there is a lot of hate from people and most of it is not because of anything that the church did to that individual person .

unfortunately though the church had a lot of bad eggs in it over the years and they are dragging the whole thing down

LuckyRoche

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Presuming that Jesus existed of course.

Personally I think it's all a load of bollox and the entire thing should be made fun of.

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

Canis Lupus

LuckyRoche wrote: »

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

Nope. Try again.

TSMGUY

LuckyRoche wrote: »

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

Oh God....

(I actually agree with you but this debate never ends with one side going "Oh yeah, I guess you're right." Pointless debate to have because both sides' views are already set in stone.)

Penny Tration

I don't like islam and I don't like Christianity.


I respect anyone who chooses to believe in these religions, once they are peaceful and don't use their beliefs for nefarious purposes, and I don't have a problem with anyone believing in a religion I dislike.


So am I islamophobic or some crap?

suicide_circus

Always remember the way organised religions behave when they have real power and authority. It's never pretty.

The Judeo-Christian (including islam which is just a plagiarism of both) tradition is essentially that we are born "sick" and commanded to be well. It is at its very core immoral.

Mister Vain

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about Cristiano Ronaldo.

The_Valeyard

Mister Vain wrote: »

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about Cristiano Ronaldo.

That be fun.

But give it time, the atheists will soon arise to ridicule Christianity and profess their beliefs as to why they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Canis Lupus

The_Valeyard wrote: »

the atheists will soon arise to ridicule Christianity and profess their beliefs as to why they are right and everyone else is wrong

Like the religious have been doing for centuries.

Brian?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

The problem is 99% of Christians don't live by "hate the sin, not the sinner". The Catholic Church spent hundreds of years spelling bile and hatred from the pulpit, just because individual priests are nice lads we can't forget this.

You may have never been directly harmed, but what about the children in laundries and work houses? What about The kids molested by priests who the church hierarchy knew were paedophiles and protected? What about the women forced to travel to England for abortions because they'd been raped?

And whether you know it or not you have been harmed by the church's influence over government policy.

LDN_Irish

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

When all this Islamist ****e settles down in a couple of hundred years this is probably what people who grow up in muslim countries will be saying. A lot of them are already saying it now, but they'll still be saying it with the benefit of hindsight like you are here.

mansize

My love is not a sin, and I'm not a sinner.

The_Valeyard

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Like the religious have been doing for centuries.

Or the Marxists, far left atheist regimes.

Discodog

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Or the Marxists, far left atheist regimes.

Yes us Atheists are going to become terrorists, kill thousands in religious wars & abuse children. :rolleyes:

Atheists don't want to stop religion. They want to stop it being forced on people or having control over the State

Canis Lupus

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Or the Marxists, far left atheist regimes.

Old argument is old (and incorrect). I think one of us is supposed to mention Hitler pretty soon. Ooops, there I did it.

R.D. aka MR.D

The refuge of the smug is always to call other people's beliefs childish. You've matured, that's great. Well done, but it doesn't mean that the views you once held were childish.

You've simply changed as a person. It doesn't make you better than any one else.

I have no problem with any religion as long as it does not infringe on the rights or peaceful existence of any one else.

If you want to judge people, do it in the privacy of your own head or in silent conversation with your god.

nozzferrahhtoo

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I see nothing wrong with the ridicule of beliefs, religious or otherwise. The only distinction should be the mockery of the beliefs, and the mockery of the people that hold them. The former is ok. The latter is not.

Now of course people in the world will take offence vicariously on behalf of their mocked beliefs. And that is their choice and their problem. Not mine. I neither worry about it, nor pander to it.

But unsubstantiated nonsense not only invites mockery, but I recommend it. Because we would do well to divest ourselves of it and move forward without it. And if there is actually any benefit in such beliefs to be found.... though I remain strongly skeptical on that front...... then that does not mean we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. We can find ways to distill what is useful from it into less dangerous forms.

I can not think of a SINGLE benefit of religious or Christian thought that can not be just as easily obtained without having to subscribe to unsubstantiated nonsense in order to attain it. Can you?

mansize

I respect people's right to their faith as long as it doesn't impact negatively on others.

DrPhilG

I think the issue being raised here is not that people mock Christianity.

It is that when someone criticises Islam they are hung out to dry as an "Islamophobe".

Take yer man McConnell from Belfast. I don't like what he said but he had the right to say it.

If someone said the same thing about Christianity nobody would bat an eyelid.

Everyone knows the wrongs that have been done in the name of Christianity in the past. But by and large (apart from some African nations and the Westboro crew etc) that is a thing of the past.

Radical Islam is waging war on the world and yet people are on tippy toes in case they offend the sensible Muslims. Why are people so careful not to offend the sane non radical Muslims but take great delight in offending and mocking the sane non radical Christians?

Thats just my interpretation of the OP anyway.

Whispered

Discodog wrote: »

Atheists don't want to stop religion. They want to stop it being forced on people or having control over the State

I'm not even atheist and I feel strongly about this. Religion has no place in education unless you choose to send your child to a religious school. That in itself brings its own problems, a lot of parents have no choice because the local school is very often religious - especially outside larger towns. I have no issues with learning about religions from a cultural point of view but telling kids this stuff is fact is just ridiculous.

I think labelling athiests as phobic of Christianity is a bit off the mark. As far as I see they feel the same about all religions?

FluffyAngel

Penny Tration wrote: »

I don't like islam and I don't like Christianity.


I respect anyone who chooses to believe in these religions, once they are peaceful and don't use their beliefs for nefarious purposes, and I don't have a problem with anyone believing in a religion I dislike.


So am I islamophobic or some crap?

no your human....

The_Valeyard

Discodog wrote: »

Yes us Atheists are going to become terrorists, kill thousands in religious wars & abuse children. :rolleyes:

Atheists don't want to stop religion. They want to stop it being forced on people or having control over the State

Well, ye did.

Maos revolution, Pol pots Cambodia, Etc

Canis Lupus

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well, ye did.

Maos revolution, Pol pots Cambodia, Etc

Please show where they did anything bad in the name of 'atheism'.

eviltwin

I see no problem in ridiculing the ridiculous. In saying that, I respect the rights of the individual to believe what they want once they keep it to themselves.

Bubbaclaus

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've never had a bad experience with the CC.

Lucky you. The sheer amount of people that have had a bad experience however says a lot about the organisation.

Brian?

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well, ye did.

Maos revolution, Pol pots Cambodia, Etc

They killed in the name of Atheism? I'm shocked.

Leroy42

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

I know it's a wider issue, Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment. Far leftists want to tear down the establishment. Raging against what has served our people well for centuries.

I was one of these guys too in college but when I matured a little I realised how childish my views were. I've never had a bad experience with the CC. When somebody close to me committed suicide I sat by his coffin at the wake for a couple of hours with a Priest and he was just a lovely man, he explained to me how only God can judge the dead and not man.

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

Never had a bad experience, that is great and should be the same for everyone. Religion should be a source of good. But you are aware of the terrible suffering that has been inflicted on many through the deeds of the CC, from the inquisition, abuse of children, allowing gay people to be cast as sinners and that is before we even get into the wars that have been waged on behalf of God.

In terms of the priest, wow. There you are sitting at the coffin of your dead friend, and the most comforting thing a priest could say is that God will judge him. Simple human decency would say that then wasn't really the time to discuss religion, a simple "we can pray he is now in a peaceful place" or "we can take joy in the time we did know him".

It is telling that you see this prients failure to preach the CC teaching that your friend was essentially a sinner and condemned as he sat beside the coffin as something to be held high.

The fact that you mention that you once felt the same way as those criticising the CC while in college but have since matured betrays your feelings on these people and it is clear that far from looking at them as equals you think they are beneath you. Yet your core problem seems to be that others are not giving your beliefs the respect you think they deserve!

History as shown us that most groups that were used to a position of authority and being seen as elite feel that when the scales are being rebalanced they view thes as being unfair to them rather than being fair to everyone. White people in South Africa, middle class white americans in the US feel like they are losing out, even men feel that the continued rebalancing of gender has resulted in things going too far. The CC has shown a clear propensity to violently protect and project it influence and will do whatever it takes to maintain its power. It no longer enjoys the same power or influence and so has been forced to take on this more benign approach in recent times but don't for a second think that, if it had the wherewithall, it wouldn't strike out as before. (This is of course not confined to the CC but all institutions of power but I am sticking to CC here as that is the OP point)

Canis Lupus

Christians believe a god sent his son who was also himself to earth to save us from a sin he effectively condemned us to. This son was born from a woman who didn't have sex to conceive him. This baby grew into a man who did all sorts of **** like heal blind people right through to raising people from the dead never mind turning water into wine and so on and so forth. He was crucified then came back to life and later on literally (not figuratively) ascended/flew into heaven. Every Sunday when catholics go to mass then are supposed to believe that bread and wine literally turns into the body and blood of this flying man.

If you take a step back and take a deep breath how can you NOT ridicule this?

The_Valeyard

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Christians believe a god sent his son who was also himself to earth to save us from a sin he effectively condemned us to. This son was born from a woman who didn't have sex to conceive him. This baby grew into a man who did all sorts of **** like heal blind people right through to raising people from the dead never mind turning water into wine and so on and so forth. He was crucified then came back to life and later on literally (not figuratively) ascended/flew into heaven. Every Sunday when catholics go to mass then are supposed to believe that bread and wine literally turns into the body and blood of this flying man.

If you take a step back and take a deep breath how can you NOT ridicule this?

They have a whole 'funny side to religion' in the atheism forum. You will feel at home there.

Canis Lupus

The_Valeyard wrote: »

They have a whole 'funny side to religion' in the atheism forum. You will feel at home there.

Still avoiding the marxist questions?

BrokenArrows

511 wrote: »

The sooner the ALL faiths die out, the better. We have less war and division on this planet.

Fixed that for you.

Tigger

LuckyRoche wrote: »

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

What did he look like

El_Duderino 09

LuckyRoche wrote:

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

Definitely existed in the sense that Plato/ Socrates definately existed, but not in he sense that Julius Ceasar or Napoleon definitely existed.

There is some evidence of Jusus the man but it's more accurate to say that most historians accept the existence of Jesus the man because. There is little good evidence and it's mixed with known forgeries so it's too difficult to say one way or the other.

The more important point is that the effects of the teachings have led to Christianity which certainly does exist. In that sense both Jesus and Socrates have had a profound impact on the world regardless of their actual existence and their actual existence is less important than the impact of their following.


If you mean this argument or something similar, fine. If you mean the argument below then youre just wrong

Jesus existed -> Jesus was the son of god -> therefore god and Christianity are true

Christy42

511 wrote: »

Inside the secular, liberal mind:

Christianophobia = acceptable
Islamophobia = unacceptable, racist, fascist. Nazi, bigot, etc.

The real world: neither are valid terms because they are not irrational fears and religion should never be above criticism. Both have led to the slaughter of millions of people and both continue the divide humans into hate-mongering groups. That's the whole propose behind the Abrahamic faiths, power and subjugation of the people.

Morals pre-date Christianity, so Christianity can't claims to have created morals in the West. They may have enforced them alright, but they Christians are also the reason why homosexuality was demonized in Europe and is still demonized in Africa. Christianity used demonize children born outside of wedlock and created the Magdalene asylums for the mothers.

Not a fan of the Jewish practice of circumcision. We need our foreskin to protect the gland from developing a callus or else teh penis will go numb and you won't get an organism. Forcing that on 13 year olds is child abuse.

The sooner the Abrahamic faiths die out, the better. We have less war and division on this planet.

People who call for a ban on all Muslims are called islamophobic. Is anyone calling you for the same against Christians. If so I will happily call them Christianophobic (might need a catchier name). Similarly with demonising all of a certain religion on the actions of a few.

People complaining about the church fighting against social justice laws of one type or another is not the same as those people who infer that all Muslims are terrorists.

BrokenArrows

LuckyRoche wrote: »

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

All evidence of which has to be based on the Bible which was written a long time after his death.

Hoop66

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Please show where they did anything bad in the name of 'atheism'.

They did it in the name of their ideology, which is kind of the same thing. Since their ideology required them to reject religion.

nozzferrahhtoo

LuckyRoche wrote: »

It's historical fact that Jesus did exist.

Far from it, it is quote contentious at best. And some of what little evidence people do cite about it has even been suggested to be fraudulent. But by all means lay out the historical case for me sometime.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well, ye did. Maos revolution, Pol pots Cambodia, Etc

Could you lay out the full connection there for me, because I am not seeing it.

Hoop66 wrote: »

They did it in the name of their ideology, which is kind of the same thing. Since their ideology required them to reject religion.

That is tenuous at best, it is not the same thing at all.

But even then these regimes have their issues with religion not because of atheism, but because the religion in question is a direct competition to what they are trying to install. Especially in areas where people have essentially tried to install what is in effect a state religion. Such as we saw in places like Russia.

Canis Lupus

Tigger wrote: »

What did he look like

White Caucasian with straight glossy shoulder length hair of course!

Tigger

Canis Lupus wrote: »

White Caucasian with straight glossy shoulder length hair of course!

The aryan Nordic Jesus seems common in th mind of people that say He "did exist"
Probably about 5 foot tall very dark middle eastern looking Jesus would be nice to see depicted at this stage

BrokenArrows

Christy42 wrote: »

People who call for a ban on all Muslims are called islamophobic. Is anyone calling you for the same against Christians. If so I will happily call them Christianophobic (might need a catchier name). Similarly with demonising all of a certain religion on the actions of a few.

People complaining about the church fighting against social justice laws of one type or another is not the same as those people who infer that all Muslims are terrorists.

While the violent extreme actions are restricted to the "few" the general non violent extreme nature of the religion cannot be denied. This extreme nature allows for escalation to violent extreme actions.

I have friends who are Muslim and in my opinion they are good people, but that doesn't change the fact that they their wifes and daughters wear full burkas and are not in anyway free to live their own lives when compared to the rest of the non Muslim population.

The only solution to peace is the removal of ALL religion from society. We are advanced enough not to require the belief in some mythical god to scare us into being good. We have man made laws now which we all follow and immediate repercussions if we dont (jail) instead of the punishment/reward scenario offered by all religions after death.

RobbieTheRobber

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I feel the rise of anti Christian sentiment in Irish society and media. It seems to be ok to take a shot at these people and ridicule them for their beliefs.

Blah blah blah

I think the basic tenants of Christianity are good, they're followers of Christ and the New Testament. I like the whole ethos of 'Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.'

The members of two sects of Christianity have for several centuries murdered and attacked each other in this small island. In many cases supported by the religious leaders in their respective communities.

So forgive me if I fail to see how you could use Ireland as an advertisement for the virtues of religious interference in public life.

Here is the only deal I will offer to any follower of any religion. You keep your beliefs in your home i and will not mock or belittle them.

robindch

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Judeo Christian culture which built the west and forged many of it's values is seen as the establishment.

"Judeo Christian culture" certainly contributed to the culture we now have, but beyond paying for a lot of big buildings, music and art generally, and arguably running schools and hospitals (admittedly dual-use), it also contributed much to the detriment of society - legitimizing authoritarianism, the crusades, religious hatred of other religions and other styles of living, homophobia, anti-semitism, demeaning and extinguishing other ways of thinking and generally extolling itself at the expense of anything and everything else.

Also, the legislative and constitutional framework which is enjoyed by most western countries and is generally termed "a human rights approach" certainly does not derive in any sense from any of the proliferation of christian religions.